Obama and Clark

[MMDad]

Since Andy ruined the other thread, here's a new one for those of us who actually want to discuss the topic. Andy, you are not welcome here.

This latest Clark bomb is masterful politics. Obama has plausible deniability. There is no way that Obama can be linked to the comments, and Obama can appear to be above the comments since he came out against them.

It's old time politics at it's best. Wait a minute - isn't this the candidate of "change?"

If Obama really believes that criticizing someone's military record is wrong, where was he when it was time to denounce the Gen. Betrayus ad?

 

[ImnoMensa]

There are at least two kinds of people who dedicate their lives to serving the country.

The Military and Politicians.

One is underpaid and under appreciated and many die in that service. They live in places that are too hot, too dangerous, they have to leave their families for extended periods of time, they live in tents, barracks or sleep on the ground.

The other is overpaid, overperked, under worked , live in luxury, their families get good political jobs,, they have several homes, and seldom pick up a check in a restaurant.

 

[Pete]

Clark has always been a loose cannon. He suffers from General Officer disease where he has been able to say anything and the long line of ass kissers following him giggle and tell him how smart he is.

It is possible he was just camera whoring and made his "blunder", BUT we are talking about a guy who is very smart and savvy. He is also reportedly on the short list as a possible VP and is an insider. Washington Wire - WSJ.com : Meet the Democratic VP Prospect: Wesley Clark So for him to go out and make a blunder of this proportion in my mind is suspect. Democrats and Republicans as well all know the fine art of "proclaim and recant" to get alleged dirt out on their opponents via surrogates. They do it all the time. They march out some doof who makes a boombastic statement, smell the air, if it stinks they recant and disavow the poor rube, if it gets traction they protest but not very much like Bush did to Kerry.

This could be nothing more than an attempt to reverse swift boat McCain that didn't go well.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Andy, you are not welcome here.

It's an open forum.

I know you righties don't like opposing opinions, but Clark was a Clintonite. He's always run his mouth, and he doesn't need Barack Obama to tell him to. Let's be honest - McCain's military service record is going to be an election issue. The Republicans did it to John Kerry in 2004, the Democrats are going to play the same card. In fact, it was about this time in 2004 that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth came out about Kerry's record. If anything, this is just Clark being typical Wes Clark - bitter, angry about Clinton losing, and seeing an opportunitty to attack (given Bruzilla's shown us the thinking in the anti-McCain world in recent weeks).

If anyone's going to play nasty, it's going to be Clinton Democrats. They don't like McCain and are going to be as nasty as they can get, even if it hurts Barack Obama, because they aren't about Obama being the nominee.

This isn't something Obama's behind - it's just Clinton Democrats doing what they do best - speaking before they think.

 

[molake]

Since Andy ruined the other thread, here's a new one for those of us who actually want to discuss the topic. Andy, you are not welcome here.

This latest Clark bomb is masterful politics. Obama has plausible deniability. There is no way that Obama can be linked to the comments, and Obama can appear to be above the comments since he came out against them.

It's old time politics at it's best. Wait a minute - isn't this the candidate of "change?"

If Obama really believes that criticizing someone's military record is wrong, where was he when it was time to denounce the Gen. Betrayus ad?

And it's masterfully played into the MSM ... as well as OBama. I really don't think Obama dissed Clark at all, and carefully kept his name out of his rebuttal. Clark's off scott-free due to low impact story in the media.

If Obama would have mentioned Clark by name, it would have been a much bigger story.

As it stands, we won't hear about this past tomorrow.

 

[vraiblonde]

Clark's off scott-free due to low impact story in the media.

I dunno - it was the BIG story on the radio this afternoon. I think Pete's right and Clark is just used to having people hang on his every word because he used to be important. But if he's trying to insult McCain while shilling for Obama, criticizing experience or lack thereof probably isn't the way to go.

 

[Bann]

I dunno - it was the BIG story on the radio this afternoon. I think Pete's right and Clark is just used to having people hang on his every word because he used to be important. But if he's trying to insult McCain while shilling for Obama, criticizing experience or lack thereof probably isn't the way to go.

And Karl Rove was on Greta tonight criticizing him, too.

 

[cwo_ghwebb]

Andy, folks for the most part here argue logically. When they don't they're mocked. I think at some time or another, we have all tried to make a funny post that fell on its face. Personally, I think this is just politics as usual. What is unusual is that Obama is preaching 'change' but using the same old Chicago political machinations that got him this far. Remember Bush and his call for 'change' in the tone of political rhetoric in Washington so many years ago? Dems really didn't go for that 'change' too well, now did they?

 

[SamSpade]

I dunno - it was the BIG story on the radio this afternoon. I think Pete's right and Clark is just used to having people hang on his every word because he used to be important. But if he's trying to insult McCain while shilling for Obama, criticizing experience or lack thereof probably isn't the way to go.

Especially since he went to such great places to praise Kerry's rather weak military experience and how it does translate into being a great President, at the 2004 Democratic Convention.

CNN.com - Clark: Kerry has moral courage born in battle - Jul 29, 2004

On the other hand, according to Clark on Sunday, Obama doesn't need such experience to be a good President.

Way back when, I never thought McCain's "war" record demonstrated character - it was that he refused early release from captivity unless all his men came with him. It takes pretty strong character to REFUSE release from the torture he'd gone through.

 

[Larry Gude]

I disagree...

Since Andy ruined the other thread, here's a new one for those of us who actually want to discuss the topic. Andy, you are not welcome here.

This latest Clark bomb is masterful politics. Obama has plausible deniability. There is no way that Obama can be linked to the comments, and Obama can appear to be above the comments since he came out against them.

It's old time politics at it's best. Wait a minute - isn't this the candidate of "change?"

If Obama really believes that criticizing someone's military record is wrong, where was he when it was time to denounce the Gen. Betrayus ad?

...wholeheartedly. The main goal of bombs is to get them to go off close enough to the intended recipient as to be effective yet far away enough to not harm ones self. Even Bob Schieffer, right away and to his HUGE credit, all but laughed in Clark's face when he first said it: "Gen, Clark, how the #### can you sit there and argue that flying a plane and getting shot down and being a POW is NOT a qualification to be POTUS when the other guy has no more than broken a finger nail while editing Harvard law review? Are you ####ing stupid or do you just think we all are???"

Clark is running around so steadfastly sticking to his story to emphasize that it is HIS opinion and not that of the Obamians that he is, in effect, gutting himself over and over. It's grotesquely poor execution and I've seen three things happen so far past Schieffer;

Every single commentator is pointing out the obvious; that Clark is, unquestionably, an Obama surrogate, two, it's a really, really bad point to make and, three, the deafening silence of how it applies to an opponent who has the stunningly empty resume.

Other than Schieffer, most are trying to rescue Clark and try to get to the argument that someone who was in a high command spot would be better than some training squadron POW hero type but they are constantly slammed in the face with the obvious; Obama is the person being compared to the 'lowly' shot down POW hero type, not Clark. It falls on it's face in seconds.

So, all this is was Clark's audition for the #2 spot and it was a catastrophe. Obama can't wrap himself in Clark's uniform.

 

[SamSpade]

Even Bob Schieffer, right away and to his HUGE credit, all but laughed in Clark's face when he first said it: "Gen, Clark, how the #### can you sit there and argue that flying a plane and getting shot down and being a POW is NOT a qualification to be POTUS when the other guy has no more than broken a finger nail while editing Harvard law review? Are you ####ing stupid or do you just think we all are???"

Even though it's just Wikipedia, I just read the separate article about McCain being shot down and his experience as a POW. For all the criticism he gets I was pretty damned impressed. I just don't get the impression that Obama has ever had what McCain at least had when he was in Vietnam.

 

[Larry Gude]

???

I just don't get the impression that Obama has ever had what McCain at least had when he was in Vietnam.

What does that mean?

 

[Larry Gude]

I don't care...

Even though it's just Wikipedia, I just read the separate article about McCain being shot down and his experience as a POW. For all the criticism he gets I was pretty damned impressed.

...what anyone says about McCain; he got shot the hell down, was beaten all to hell and spent 5 years as a POW. And survived.

That doesn't qualify you, alone, to be potus. It sure as hell puts you far up the ladder, in my view, from some ####ing lawyer who 'organized' people at home over better trash pick up.

Clark was just auditioning for the veep slot.

 

[SamSpade]

What does that mean?

What do you mean? I don't know that John McCain still is the person who toughed it out as a POW, but the experience I read about was harrowing, and I don't think Obama has ever possessed the character to defy the North Vietnamese even one time.

And I REALLY dislike the man if Clark was following his lead.

 

[Larry Gude]

Gotcha...

What do you mean? I don't know that John McCain still is the person who toughed it out as a POW, but the experience I read about was harrowing, and I don't think Obama has ever possessed the character to defy the North Vietnamese even one time.

And I REALLY dislike the man if Clark was following his lead.

...you're just saying that Obama has not had any life threatening and altering and character building experiences in comparison to Mac.

Yeah, our good General Clark made damn sure everyone knows that now!

 

[Larry Gude]

In my view...

What do you mean? I don't know that John McCain still is the person who toughed it out as a POW, but the experience I read about was harrowing, and I don't think Obama has ever possessed the character to defy the North Vietnamese even one time.

And I REALLY dislike the man if Clark was following his lead.

...that is the debate Obama wants going on. If I were him, I'd make sure the Manchurian Candidate gets shown a lot between now and November and never say a word. And I'd have Clark shipped to Gitmo. Him and whomever this stupid idea was for him to do this. Let leaves the possibility that Obama will be going to Gitmo.

 

[SamSpade]

...you're just saying that Obama has not had any life threatening and altering and character building experiences in comparison to Mac.

I doubt he's had any like Mac - but I am saying I don't believe he possesses the character to tell off his torturers when they tell him we're losing the war. I don't think he has the balls to name the Green Bay Packers offensive line as the names of his squadron. I think if he'd been in Vietnam when the anti-war groups came, he'd be first in line to denounce the war instead of, like Mac, screaming "F... you, you son of a #####" to the anti-war cameras.

To be fair - I don't think *I* have that kind of courage, to refuse early release, knowing it would infuriate my captors who would surely make things worse for me. I think a few rounds of having my bones re-broken or being strung up on cords, I'd probably cave.

I wouldn't be tough enough to endure 5 years of it. Apparently, being "shot down" or being a POW isn't cause to run for President, but being awarded three Purple Hearts for injuries no one can seem to find or having limbs blown off while headed to a beer bash seems meritorious.

 

[MMDad]

...wholeheartedly. The main goal of bombs is to get them to go off close enough to the intended recipient as to be effective yet far away enough to not harm ones self. Even Bob Schieffer, right away and to his HUGE credit, all but laughed in Clark's face when he first said it: "Gen, Clark, how the #### can you sit there and argue that flying a plane and getting shot down and being a POW is NOT a qualification to be POTUS when the other guy has no more than broken a finger nail while editing Harvard law review? Are you ####ing stupid or do you just think we all are???"

There are a lot of people who see Clarks words as proof that McCain is unfit to be President. Here's one:

http://forums.somd.com/news-current-events/144538-general-clark-assails-mccain-s-credentials.html

It's a bomb, it went off close enough to the target, and it did not hurt the Obama. It even gave Obama a chance to look like the bigger man.

Notice how Obama didn't specifically say anything about Clark? Nobody will remember what Clark said in two weeks. I'd say he isn't damaged by the bomb either.

 

[Larry Gude]

I disagree...

There are a lot of people who see Clarks words as proof that McCain is unfit to be President. Here's one:

http://forums.somd.com/news-current-events/144538-general-clark-assails-mccain-s-credentials.html

It's a bomb, it went off close enough to the target, and it did not hurt the Obama. It even gave Obama a chance to look like the bigger man.

Notice how Obama didn't specifically say anything about Clark? Nobody will remember what Clark said in two weeks. I'd say he isn't damaged by the bomb either.

...and here's why; Clark is not some unknown functionary who called Gerry Ferraro a racist or told the Canadians Obama actually supports NAFTA. He is a well known and now long time candidate for higher office and he was auditioning to be on Obama's ticket. To me, the mere fact that Obama has to go out there and disassociate himself in any matter more than a passing comment is de facto evidence that Obama caught a good bit of shrapnel; once again, he has to face questions about those he associates with on a high level.

In my view, Obama simply looks like a man who has to do an awful lot of apologizing.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Clark

Pat Buchanan went after Clark this morning because apparently last night, MSNBC gave Clark the airtime and Clark was still hungry after sticking his right foot in his mouth.

This has nothing to do with Obama's campaign. This is going to hurt Obama more than it will McCain.