Obama and Clark
- Thread starter MMDad
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Pete
Repete
Which is why democrats are stupid.
Lets go out an insult a guy who is universally sympathized with and revered for his courage and resilience as a POW.I heard but cannot find a list but Clark is supposedly listed as a Sr. advisor to Obama. I cannot believe that a man who graduated #1 from West Point, went to Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar, achieved the 4 star rank, runs his own PAC and has become a savvy mover and shaker in politics would go out and make an epic blunder like this. Smart savvy people might misspeak or suffer from a poor choice of words but this is neither.
AndyMarquisLIVE
New Member
I called
on the Swift Boat ads in 2004, simply because I thought it was as dirty as politics can get. I'm saying the same about General Clark in 2008.Anyone who's served, nevertheless been injured or POW, for our nation's military only deserve he utmost respect for their service. Clark has shown he's a freakin' leftist mouth breather.
Clark went on running his mouth last night on pMSNBC saying his comments were taken out of context (riiiiiiiiiight
- Andy). Clark must've come down with the Bruzilla Disease. 
It's amazing, Clark says McCain's military service does not qualify him to be POTUS. Yet Clark ran in 2003 for the Democratic Nomination based off his Military service.
The hypocrisy.
Clark's always been a mouthy leftist kook. Even the leftist kooks thought he was a kook.
AndyMarquisLIVE
New Member
But, Clark knows this hurts Obama.
He was a Clintonite Democrat. I think this is all on his own, and it's no blunder - he's still defending it. He's pro-Clinton, still is. What I'm saying is he's just running his mouth without regard because he doesn't like McCain and doesn't care about/for Obama. If it hurts Obama, his attitude is oh well. If it helps Obama, okay.
Clark's not acting as an Obama operative, he's just running his mouth because he can. Give him the rope and he's more than willing to hang himself.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Tucker...
...Carlson covered that one fairly well. Combs and Clark, thus the 'talking points' are trying to bend it to that direction that Clark is suddenly being 'swiftboated' on this. Tucker, as a panel of three, chimed in along the lines of; 'swiftboating, whatever that means, has nothing to do with this. Clark is being rejected by Obama. Does Obama want to be having this conversation? I'm all for it! And, as far as 'swiftboating' goes, most of those folks have proven to be reputable people over time and most of what they said was true, so, yeah, let's have Obama talk about this all day long!"
The Obamaphile on the panel shook his head vigorously; no, Obama does NOT want to be having this conversation.
Tucker presented it in a way that acknowledged the efforts to turn 'swiftboating' into a bad word while making the point that if this, criticism of Clark, was 'swiftboating', by all means! Let's dance!
...Carlson covered that one fairly well. Combs and Clark, thus the 'talking points' are trying to bend it to that direction that Clark is suddenly being 'swiftboated' on this. Tucker, as a panel of three, chimed in along the lines of; 'swiftboating, whatever that means, has nothing to do with this. Clark is being rejected by Obama. Does Obama want to be having this conversation? I'm all for it! And, as far as 'swiftboating' goes, most of those folks have proven to be reputable people over time and most of what they said was true, so, yeah, let's have Obama talk about this all day long!"
The Obamaphile on the panel shook his head vigorously; no, Obama does NOT want to be having this conversation.
Tucker presented it in a way that acknowledged the efforts to turn 'swiftboating' into a bad word while making the point that if this, criticism of Clark, was 'swiftboating', by all means! Let's dance!
Larry Gude
Strung Out
That's...
...total horsehit. Just serving isn't enough. You talk to anyone who has served and they will tell you they served with exceptional people, good people, OK people, so-so people and people who were not worth a pint of pizz or worse.
I tend to admire a person for serving, but HOW they served is what matters.
Clark did NOT dis McCain's service. All he said, repeatedly, is that McCain's service and his injuries and his captivity do NOT qualify him as presidential timber. His argument was that McCain didn't serve high enough up thus he didn't have to make higher up type decisions.
And there was not a thing in the world wrong with the Swiftboat adds, including the fact that they were true.
...total horsehit. Just serving isn't enough. You talk to anyone who has served and they will tell you they served with exceptional people, good people, OK people, so-so people and people who were not worth a pint of pizz or worse.
I tend to admire a person for serving, but HOW they served is what matters.
Clark did NOT dis McCain's service. All he said, repeatedly, is that McCain's service and his injuries and his captivity do NOT qualify him as presidential timber. His argument was that McCain didn't serve high enough up thus he didn't have to make higher up type decisions.
And there was not a thing in the world wrong with the Swiftboat adds, including the fact that they were true.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Your...
...memory is failing you. Clark, in '04, made hash of the points he was trying ot make on a regular basis. He would take a valid point and do it terribly. There is nothing wrong with saying McCain doesn't automatically get to be president BECAUSE he was shot down and was a POW.
What you say is "Lot's of people were shot at and shot down and lots of people were POW's. That's a tough thing to face and John faced it as well as anyone. However, this didn't automatically qualify McCain to rise to the highest ranks of the military any more or less than it did all the rest of us who have been shot at or taken prisoner, obviously, and it is my view that a general or admiral is more qualified for higher leadership than a squadron commander."
Clark is very intelligent. He's just stupid.
Which is why democrats are stupid.
I heard but cannot find a list but Clark is supposedly listed as a Sr. advisor to Obama. I cannot believe that a man who graduated #1 from West Point, went to Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar, achieved the 4 star rank, runs his own PAC and has become a savvy mover and shaker in politics would go out and make an epic blunder like this. Smart savvy people might misspeak or suffer from a poor choice of words but this is neither.
...memory is failing you. Clark, in '04, made hash of the points he was trying ot make on a regular basis. He would take a valid point and do it terribly. There is nothing wrong with saying McCain doesn't automatically get to be president BECAUSE he was shot down and was a POW.
What you say is "Lot's of people were shot at and shot down and lots of people were POW's. That's a tough thing to face and John faced it as well as anyone. However, this didn't automatically qualify McCain to rise to the highest ranks of the military any more or less than it did all the rest of us who have been shot at or taken prisoner, obviously, and it is my view that a general or admiral is more qualified for higher leadership than a squadron commander."
Clark is very intelligent. He's just stupid.
AndyMarquisLIVE
New Member
How they served does matter - but not in an election.
The swift boat ads were total
because Bush was clearly behind them, and the only people who deny it are the neocons here at the RU. When one candidate's team attacks another when they've never been to a warzone themselves - it's . Kerry might've shot himself in Vietnam to get a purple heart (or maybe to get out
), but he actually went over there which is more than Bush ever did.Same here, Clark's a Democrat who's obviously going to vote for Obama (unless he writes-in for Shrillary). McCain served in the military. McCain's been a part of foriegn-policy decisions in Congress. And Obama hasn't done jackshiat.
Clark's comments are unfair, just as the Swift Boat ads were.
Here comes another election being run on what happened in the 1960s.
Tell me, oh wise one, what's questioning McCain or Kerry's military service going to do to lower gas prices? What's questioning McCain or Kerry's military serivice going to do to fix this economy. I'd rather hear about the candidates on drilling for oil, finding alternative sources of energy, cutting our nation's debt, strengthening the American Economy.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Make up...
...your mind; either how you served matters or just that you showed up matters.
By your definition Bush 'deserves the utmost respect' because he served, yet he is less than Kerry because Kerry was there and W wasn't. So, how does 'how one served' come into play? The Swifites pointed out that Kerry is full of #### about a good many things, a good many important things. Kerry has a record of being a political opportunist and it figures to the picture they painted of him in Vietnam.
How one served is ALL that matters. Kerry fudging things to build a political resume is not my idea of serving the nation well.
How they served does matter - but not in an election.
The swift boat ads were total
Same here, Clark's a Democrat who's obviously going to vote for Obama (unless he writes-in for Shrillary). McCain served in the military. McCain's been a part of foriegn-policy decisions in Congress. And Obama hasn't done jackshiat.
Clark's comments are unfair, just as the Swift Boat ads were.
Here comes another election being run on what happened in the 1960s.
Tell me, oh wise one, what's questioning McCain or Kerry's military service going to do to lower gas prices? What's questioning McCain or Kerry's military serivice going to do to fix this economy. I'd rather hear about the candidates on drilling for oil, finding alternative sources of energy, cutting our nation's debt, strengthening the American Economy.
...your mind; either how you served matters or just that you showed up matters.
By your definition Bush 'deserves the utmost respect' because he served, yet he is less than Kerry because Kerry was there and W wasn't. So, how does 'how one served' come into play? The Swifites pointed out that Kerry is full of #### about a good many things, a good many important things. Kerry has a record of being a political opportunist and it figures to the picture they painted of him in Vietnam.
How one served is ALL that matters. Kerry fudging things to build a political resume is not my idea of serving the nation well.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
It's...
...not going to do one damn thing. However, I didn't send Kerry out there to lie about his service and I didn't send Clark out there to discount McCain's service.
You don't like it, take it up with Kerry and Obama, not the people who take exception to their noise.
...not going to do one damn thing. However, I didn't send Kerry out there to lie about his service and I didn't send Clark out there to discount McCain's service.
You don't like it, take it up with Kerry and Obama, not the people who take exception to their noise.
AndyMarquisLIVE
New Member
None of it matters. :shrug:
Serving is admirable. Going to war for your nation is admirable. But, it does not determine who I'm voting for.
I know there are few people who actually do it, but I prefer to vote for someone on the issues.
We're stuck in a war we never should've gotten into. One candidate says finish the job. The other candidate first says "Get out now," and later changes it to "get out...slowly."
We're in what is building up to be the worst economy since the Carter Administration. Add in the effects of gas prices, inflation and a sinking dollar, and it's the worst economy since the Depression for the average person. Yeah, I know, when you're making $90,000/year sitting at a desk posting on the RU, you disagree with that assessment.
We're still fighting the people who actually did attack us on 9-11, and that war is not going well because we distracted ourselves by going into a pointless damn war in Iraq.
Oh, check out this headline: Coalition troop deaths in Afghanistan surpass Iraq - CNN.com
Seems there are issues far more pressing than
He was a POW in 1960-something and never made Admiral
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Take...
...it up with Kerry and Obama. They brought it up. Not calling people on their BS is what gets us into messes like we're in now in the first place.
None of it matters. :shrug:
Serving is admirable. Going to war for your nation is admirable. But, it does not determine who I'm voting for.
I know there are few people who actually do it, but I prefer to vote for someone on the issues.
We're stuck in a war we never should've gotten into. One candidate says finish the job. The other candidate first says "Get out now," and later changes it to "get out...slowly."
We're in what is building up to be the worst economy since the Carter Administration. Add in the effects of gas prices, inflation and a sinking dollar, and it's the worst economy since the Depression for the average person. Yeah, I know, when you're making $90,000/year sitting at a desk posting on the RU, you disagree with that assessment.
We're still fighting the people who actually did attack us on 9-11, and that war is not going well because we distracted ourselves by going into a pointless damn war in Iraq.
Oh, check out this headline: Coalition troop deaths in Afghanistan surpass Iraq - CNN.com
Seems there are issues far more pressing than
...it up with Kerry and Obama. They brought it up. Not calling people on their BS is what gets us into messes like we're in now in the first place.
Pete
Repete
There are several significant differences between Kerry's deal and this.I called
Anyone who's served, nevertheless been injured or POW, for our nation's military only deserve he utmost respect for their service. Clark has shown he's a freakin' leftist mouth breather.
Clark went on running his mouth last night on pMSNBC saying his comments were taken out of context (riiiiiiiiiight
It's amazing, Clark says McCain's military service does not qualify him to be POTUS. Yet Clark ran in 2003 for the Democratic Nomination based off his Military service.
The hypocrisy.
Clark's always been a mouthy leftist kook. Even the leftist kooks thought he was a kook.
1. Kerry was criticized by his fellow officers who were there and knew him.
2. Kerry tried to make a great hoopla about his service.
3. Kerry came back and called his fellow service members Genghis Khan's and rapists in front of congress then tried to do a 180 and talk about how great he was when he was a candidate.
4. Kerry threw his purple hearts over the White House steps in protest, then tried to retrieve them and pin them back on for the campaign.
5. When he marched out on the stage at the DNC and did his goofy ass salute and "Reporting for Duty" thing.
Examining someones service is fine as far as I am concerned, especially if their are claims made. McCain's service is pretty much a matter of record. He did fly 23 missions, he was a POW, he did command a squadron, he did serve a full tour/career and for the most part he has not made it the center piece of his campaign nor has he engaged in hypocrisy regarding his service. Kerry on the other hand had all kinds of credibility and hypocrisy problems. First his fellow officers took offense at him leveraging his "heroic service" in his campaign, then you have that sticky thing about sitting in congress wearing OD's and calling his fellow service members Genghis Kahn's and rapists in 1974 then reversing course in 2004.
Clark and Larry are correct. Being shot down or being a POW do not bring any special qualification to be POTUS. If Clark had made his point in a different way it may have floated a little. What they do bring is an indication of moral courage that along with years in the House as a Representative and years in the Senate do qualify him. Clark's angle was not to showcase McCain's credentials or lack thereof, his intent was to smear McCain.
AndyMarquisLIVE
New Member
We need to call people on their bs on the issues. Questioning why McCain never made Admiral or why Barack Obama's middle name is Hussein doesn't do a damn thing, but that's all this General Election has been about.
Look at the Obama threads, all they are is pointless cheap shots from far-right blogs being repeated. And the funny part is how the righties take them so seriously.
His middle name is HusseinHe's a muslimHe's blackHe's whiteHe said "white grandmother."He was born in HawaiiObama rhymes with Osama
Larry Gude
Strung Out
His...
...intent was to carry water for Obama by reducing the perceived stature of McCain the War Hero and make a case for himself as veep. Smear? A bit strong. I don't see that. Other than that, 100% good post.
...intent was to carry water for Obama by reducing the perceived stature of McCain the War Hero and make a case for himself as veep. Smear? A bit strong. I don't see that. Other than that, 100% good post.
Pete
Repete
Clark is not a Clintonite democrat he is a Clark democrat. In 2004 he ran and then endorsed Kerry.
He was the first to jump off Hillary's boat and onto the SS Obama.
He was on the list as possible VP.
He is a Senior Advisor to Obama 08.
He loathes Bush and the GOP.
He gets NOTHING AT ALL by screwing up Obama's chances, in fact he has a lot to lose because democrats do not treat their spoilers very well.
He was likely out there trying to impress Obama by attacking for him and he screwed it up.
Pete
Repete
...intent was to carry water for Obama by reducing the perceived stature of McCain the War Hero and make a case for himself as veep. Smear? A bit strong. I don't see that. Other than that, 100% good post.
I agree, his intent was to knock down the shine of a percieved strength. Smear was the wrong word.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Again...
...you gotta make up your mind.
It is an issue whether or not Obama meets the citizenship qualifications to be president. We do have requirements.
It is an issue whether or not Obama was raised a Muslim in his early years. It will damn sure matter to Muslims we deal with.
It is an issue if he changed his name or not.
They are all issues that he could put to rest today, same thing Kerry could have done whenever he felt like it.
So, someone wants to be my president yet they don't want to do simple things like proving who they are, what they are, what they were? Why?
I'm not real big on people who talk the talk and then act like they have something to hide.
Why should there be the benefit of the doubt that the way someone handles these sorts of minor issues won't convey into how they handle larger issues?
If you can't play the piano, why would I think you can conduct an orchestra?
We need to call people on their bs on the issues. Questioning why McCain never made Admiral or why Barack Obama's middle name is Hussein doesn't do a damn thing, but that's all this General Election has been about.
Look at the Obama threads, all they are is pointless cheap shots from far-right blogs being repeated. And the funny part is how the righties take them so seriously.
...you gotta make up your mind.
It is an issue whether or not Obama meets the citizenship qualifications to be president. We do have requirements.
It is an issue whether or not Obama was raised a Muslim in his early years. It will damn sure matter to Muslims we deal with.
It is an issue if he changed his name or not.
They are all issues that he could put to rest today, same thing Kerry could have done whenever he felt like it.
So, someone wants to be my president yet they don't want to do simple things like proving who they are, what they are, what they were? Why?
I'm not real big on people who talk the talk and then act like they have something to hide.
Why should there be the benefit of the doubt that the way someone handles these sorts of minor issues won't convey into how they handle larger issues?
If you can't play the piano, why would I think you can conduct an orchestra?
AndyMarquisLIVE
New Member
And we all knew the Democrats were going to try to discredit McCain's service as much as they can. They're still bitter about 2004. Hell, there's still smoke coming out of their heads from 2000.
And then there are people who are otherwise Conservative who want to speculate for months why John McCain never made admiral.
Clark's intent was to smear McCain. He was expecting the LSM to defend him. Instead, he's getting backlash from everyone except Keef Olbermann (who's really doing a great job at showing he has no journalistic integrity or objectivity
). Clark clearly expected this to become an issue, but he was hoping for the media to act like Bruzilla. Problem for them is John McCain's very good at shrugging off cheap shots and scandals. He's earned the nickname "Teflon John" for a reason. 
And now, Wes Clark is the media's honorary Republican.