Osteen as heretic?

[itsbob]

Personally I find the whole Osteen megachurch disgusting. All of the megachurches are nothing but modern day versions of the Moneychangers in front of the temple.

 

[Pandora]

But the assembling also does not need a muliti-million dollar house with the shepherd arriving before his flock in a 60,000 dollar car paid for by them.

You mean Joel? Lets not forget he has written 2 books that have sold mega copies. He could have bought his vehicle, car, and stashed some away for a long time.

 

[2ndAmendment]

And the things he says about God wantig you to be happy' healthy succesful, is a good thing. It beats "your going to hell" everytime you turn around. We are human beings, and I beleive God understands that we are not perfect, and living in fear of him, well, how can you be any good to anyone else if your not happy-healthy-succesfull. Alot of people have turned away from God, religion, church, because it really can bring you down alot. I was raised catholic, and when I turned 18 I turned away from religion. I enjoy a positive message every now and then. It almost seemed to me as if the preists and nuns were giddy when they saw the look of horror on our faces, we were all going to hell, we were dirty, rotten, and oh by the way you have to pay for these lessons.

Yeah, the happy message is good, but ( the inevitable but) it is a bit like JPC's "everyone gets saved" junk. Yes, everyone is special to God; we were all created be Him. Yes, God loves us all. No, everyone is not going to be rich in this life. No, not everyone is going to be freed from some health issue. No, the name it and claim it principle is not Biblical and it does not work. No, not everyone is going to heaven. If you send Joel a bunch of money, you probably won't get rich; you aunt may not be healed, and you spouse may still cheat on you. No, you should not send your last dime to Joel; you might want to give it to your local church that you regularly attend.

You will get rich and have everything your heart desires if you send your tithe to this ministry is not one of God's messages.

Positive thinking is good and positive messages are good sometime as long as they do not hold out false teachings. Both heaven and hell are real and both are spoken of in the Bible. The final destination is one or the other for everyone.

God is good. God is love. God loves you. God has provided Himself as the only sacrifice to save you from eternal separation from Him. Salvation is free for the asking; the true ask and you will receive. You can be saved right now. God will provide your needs (not wants). You can receive the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit will live within you. Those are some of the positive messages of God.

But the alternative message is also part and parcel of the Bible. If you reject God's plan, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[2ndAmendment]

You mean Joel? Lets not forget he has written 2 books that have sold mega copies. He could have bought his vehicle, car, and stashed some away for a long time.

OK.

Are the finances of his ministry open to the public? Where does the money go? The worker is due his compensation.

1 Corinthians 9:7-11

7Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?

8I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things?

9For it is written in the Law of Moses, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING " God is not concerned about oxen, is He?

10Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.

11If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?

1 Timothy 5:17-18

17The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.

18For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

But the ministry should not be solely for the support of the minister or where is the ministry? Ministry is ministering to the needs of others both spiritually and physically.

 

[Kain99]

Yeah, the happy message is good, but ( the inevitable but) it is a bit like JPC's "everyone gets saved" junk. Yes, everyone is special to God; we were all created be Him. Yes, God loves us all. No, everyone is not going to be rich in this life. No, not everyone is going to be freed from some health issue. No, the name it and claim it principle is not Biblical and it does not work. No, not everyone is going to heaven. If you send Joel a bunch of money, you probably won't get rich; you aunt may not be healed, and you spouse may still cheat on you. No, you should not send your last dime to Joel; you might want to give it to your local church that you regularly attend.

You will get rich and have everything your heart desires if you send your tithe to this ministry is not one of God's messages.

Positive thinking is good and positive messages are good sometime as long as they do not hold out false teachings. Both heaven and hell are real and both are spoken of in the Bible. The final destination is one or the other for everyone.

God is good. God is love. God loves you. God has provided Himself as the only sacrifice to save you from eternal separation from Him. Salvation is free for the asking; the true ask and you will receive. You can be saved right now. God will provide your needs (not wants). You can receive the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit will live within you. Those are some of the positive messages of God.

But the alternative message is also part and parcel of the Bible. If you reject God's plan, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Who so ever believes in me shall not die, but have eternal life. <---- Gods Law.

The rest is self imposed bologna! Designed to belittle and admonish.

 

[Pandora]

You know 2A, my mother used to watch Billy Graham and he used to bug the crap out of me with the send your money right now....

Joel has a very short blurb about donations, and that is that. He doesn't ram requests down your throat.

Lakewood Church: Discover the Champion in You - Joel Osteen, Pastor - Houston, TX

^ I don't see the finances listed on the website, but our church doesn't post ours either on the website. I would imagine they would be available upon request.

I think, since Joel wouldn't be so available all the time, and since that church is huge, they would have other pastors there. I really wouldn't know. I just wanted to mention the books, because those both sold extremely well and he does tours (ticket sales).

 

[2ndAmendment]

Who so ever believes in me shall not die, but have eternal life. <---- Gods Law.

John 11:25-27

25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

27She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."

God is the judge of hearts.

Hebrews 4:11-13

11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

12For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

Believe in your heart. Confess with your mouth.

Romans 10:8-11

8But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

Do God's will.

Matthew 7:21-23

21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

John 14:15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

The rest is self imposed bologna! Designed to belittle and admonish.

Only if you don't believe the Bible.

 

[Kain99]

God is the judge of hearts. Believe in your heart. Confess with your mouth. Do God's will.


Only if you don't believe the Bible.

Bubba, I have cautioned you so many times.... Lambs do not follow lions.

 

[itsbob]

It has never bugged me that ministers can make money.

Some churches equate making money doing the work of God as a sin. Some churches do not have "professional" priests or ministers but solely depend on unpaid, un-compensated volunteers to do God's and their church's work. Some believe their church leaders, their priests and their Bishops need to be of the world, make their money WORKING like the rest of the flock, and taking the weight of leading the flock voluntarily on their shoulders.. paying the same tithing out of the same paycheck the parishioners do....

The only people that get paid in SOME churhes, are the ones that do the maintenance and the upkeep on the facility.. not the ones responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the souls therein.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Bubba, I have cautioned you so many times.... Lambs do not follow lions.

Nope. Not now, but ...

Isaiah 11:1-10

1Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
3And He will delight in the fear of the LORD,
And He will not judge by what His eyes see,
Nor make a decision by what His ears hear;
4But with righteousness He will judge the poor,
And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth;
And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.
5Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins,
And faithfulness the belt about His waist.
6And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den.
9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
As the waters cover the sea.
10Then in that day
The nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
Who will stand as a signal for the peoples;
And His resting place will be glorious.

Root of Jesse is Jesus by the way.

Jesus spoke of the tribulation and the lake of fire. The gospel is the whole gospel, not just the nice parts.

 

[craberta]

As a person who has not read the bible yet, (but I fully intend to and very soon) It seems to me personally that all i ever here is negative, blah blah...your going to hell if you don't beleive or whatever. To hear something possitive for once is refreshing to me, and those thousands of people who go to that church, and watch his shows. I would much rather watch VH1, Or my soaps, and I do, but when he is on, I listen, and I find myself feeling good about God, faith, and it softens my heart too! instead of feeling fear, and wanting to avoid, I want to know more, the good and the bad. O know I am probably not going to heaven, but as long as I am here right now, pretending that God loves me, I am special well, it made me very generouse and unselfish and unafraid this Christmas, and for the first time in years, I unpacked my nativity scene and put it by the front door.

 

[Kain99]

Nope. Not now, but ... Root of Jesse is Jesus by the way.

Jesus spoke of the tribulation and the lake of fire. The gospel is the whole gospel, not just the nice parts.

What is your goal here? Do you not understand, who you are dealing with? Obviously, you were born by fire - but trust me, most won't be.

 

[Kain99]

Again 2A, You will be held accountable for the lost. Ease up, brotha man!

 

[2ndAmendment]

As a person who has not read the bible yet, (but I fully intend to and very soon) It seems to me personally that all i ever here is negative, blah blah...your going to hell if you don't beleive or whatever. To hear something possitive for once is refreshing to me, and those thousands of people who go to that church, and watch his shows. I would much rather watch VH1, Or my soaps, and I do, but when he is on, I listen, and I find myself feeling good about God, faith, and it softens my heart too! instead of feeling fear, and wanting to avoid, I want to know more, the good and the bad. O know I am probably not going to heaven, but as long as I am here right now, pretending that God loves me, I am special well, it made me very generouse and unselfish and unafraid this Christmas, and for the first time in years, I unpacked my nativity scene and put it by the front door.

I'm glad. God does love you; you do not have to pretend. And as you seek Him, you will find Him. Why do you think you will not go to heaven? The thief on the cross did. All the angels in heaven rejoice when someone finds the open loving arms of the Father.

 

[Kain99]

I'm glad. God does love you; you do not have to pretend. And as you seek Him, you will find Him. Why do you think you will not go to heaven? The thief on the cross did. All the angles in heaven rejoice when someone finds the open loving arms of the Father.

She thinks that because of people like you 2A.....

 

[2ndAmendment]

What is your goal here? Do you not understand, who you are dealing with? Obviously, you were born by fire - but trust me, most won't be.

My goal was to show you that with God, all things are possible and as Isaiah said, "the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den."

The gospel is the gospel. Jesus taught of heaven and the lake of fire. Mostly, I speak of the love of God, but I will not shy away from the tribulation and the punishment. To do so is to proclaim half truth which is not truth at all.

 

[2ndAmendment]

She thinks that because of people like you 2A.....

I think she can post for herself.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Again 2A, You will be held accountable for the lost. Ease up, brotha man!

Yeah. That is why I will not water down the gospel because of your protests. The gospel is the gospel. It is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I didn't make the lake of fire up. The lake of fire should be absolutely no cause for fear for those that love God.

 

[craberta]

I'm just covering myself, just incase I don't get in, no one can say I was asuming wrongly, I just don't think I am worthy yet. I know when I die what others think of me won't matter, but since I am in the human condition, I tend to think of death as I do life, in this body with this personality. I am just trying to be positive, and that way the scary posibilities won't bring me down. I am very much bothered by the focus on Gods anger, and punishment and hell....alot of people like that, scaring others, "don't be too happy, cause you are gonna get it", That sort of thing. My mother inlaw is like that, a real Debbie downer. I can't help it, I have decided to think that God loves me, I am special, and my chances are pretty good!

 

[2ndAmendment]

I'm just covering myself, just incase I don't get in, no one can say I was asuming wrongly, I just don't think I am worthy yet. I know when I die what others think of me won't matter, but since I am in the human condition, I tend to think of death as I do life, in this body with this personality. I am just trying to be positive, and that way the scary posibilities won't bring me down. I am very much bothered by the focus on Gods anger, and punishment and hell....alot of people like that, scaring others, "don't be too happy, cause you are gonna get it", That sort of thing. My mother inlaw is like that, a real Debbie downer. I can't help it, I have decided to think that God loves me, I am special, and my chances are pretty good!

God loves YOU! You are His. He created you. God does not create junk.

As to being worthy, no one is, not me, not Italian Stallion, not Starman3000, not anyone.

Romans 3:21-28

21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27Where then is boasting? It is excluded By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Salvation is a gift from God because He wants you to love Him and be His child.

Believe in your heart of hearts in Jesus as your Savior. Make Him your Lord. Live your life in love of God and what He has done for you. Do not be afraid to tell others that you love Jesus and He loves you. You will not be disappointed.