Osteen as heretic?
- Thread starter Larry Gude
- Start date
Larry Gude
Strung Out
That's interesting...
...because I think that is what his theological critics were getting at, though I missed some parts of the segment that may have clarified this argument.
In any event, whenever I have listened to Osteen, it never occurred to me that he was Tony Robbins but that he was very much speaking about the power of the Lord and the glory of God, the power of prayer and the power and strength one can gain, simply for the asking if you give yourself to the Lord.
So, two questions, aren't all pastors and preachers primarily motivational speakers or, at least, claiming to be so? And isn't motivating folks to live better, to be better, for themselves and their loved ones, in the name of God, isn't that the work of the Lord?
If so, then is it not a simple question of whether or not the pastor is basing his motivation on religious faith and scripture or not, and, if so, I don't see how anyone could claim Osteen is NOT all about God.
...because I think that is what his theological critics were getting at, though I missed some parts of the segment that may have clarified this argument.
In any event, whenever I have listened to Osteen, it never occurred to me that he was Tony Robbins but that he was very much speaking about the power of the Lord and the glory of God, the power of prayer and the power and strength one can gain, simply for the asking if you give yourself to the Lord.
So, two questions, aren't all pastors and preachers primarily motivational speakers or, at least, claiming to be so? And isn't motivating folks to live better, to be better, for themselves and their loved ones, in the name of God, isn't that the work of the Lord?
If so, then is it not a simple question of whether or not the pastor is basing his motivation on religious faith and scripture or not, and, if so, I don't see how anyone could claim Osteen is NOT all about God.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Ok...
...that is non sense. God created Adolph Hitler. God created Pol Pot. God created Joe Stalin. Whether they did the work of the Lord or not doesn't seem to bear any sort of discussion. God has made all sorts of clunkers who chose various levels of evil. That qualifies as junk and for theologians to take exception to Olsteen because is he, in their view, focus's too much on the individual is interesting to me. It seems to me that the individual that was Hitler, that was Stalin, that was Pol Pot could very much have used some ministry that focused on them being better people in and of themselves first and foremost.
Again, you said you don't watch the guy, so, I understand you not having a direct opinion but, again, it interests me that actual theologians, not atheists, not agnostics, but people who are versed and studied in the faith, claim he is not doing the work of the Lord.
It is my impression that had he been Adolph's pastor, history may have been rather different. For the better of mankind.
That has to, by definition, be the work of God. Doesn't it?
...that is non sense. God created Adolph Hitler. God created Pol Pot. God created Joe Stalin. Whether they did the work of the Lord or not doesn't seem to bear any sort of discussion. God has made all sorts of clunkers who chose various levels of evil. That qualifies as junk and for theologians to take exception to Olsteen because is he, in their view, focus's too much on the individual is interesting to me. It seems to me that the individual that was Hitler, that was Stalin, that was Pol Pot could very much have used some ministry that focused on them being better people in and of themselves first and foremost.
Again, you said you don't watch the guy, so, I understand you not having a direct opinion but, again, it interests me that actual theologians, not atheists, not agnostics, but people who are versed and studied in the faith, claim he is not doing the work of the Lord.
It is my impression that had he been Adolph's pastor, history may have been rather different. For the better of mankind.
That has to, by definition, be the work of God. Doesn't it?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Let me ask you...
...you a question; What you just described; does that make you feel and think and act more like you may well be a child of God, a servant of the Lord, a useful part of something bigger? Or does it make you think more about just your own worldly self interest? Focus out v. focus in. More generous to your fellow man v. more interest in your self. Etc.
I am trying to understand all of this in the light of what could possibly be out side the work of God in Osteens ministry if it is the former. If it is the latter, then I see the issue.
..but when he is on, I listen, and I find myself feeling good about God, faith, and it softens my heart too! instead of feeling fear, and wanting to avoid, I want to know more, the good and the bad. O know I am probably not going to heaven, but as long as I am here right now, pretending that God loves me, I am special well, it made me very generouse and unselfish and unafraid this Christmas, and for the first time in years, I unpacked my nativity scene and put it by the front door.
...you a question; What you just described; does that make you feel and think and act more like you may well be a child of God, a servant of the Lord, a useful part of something bigger? Or does it make you think more about just your own worldly self interest? Focus out v. focus in. More generous to your fellow man v. more interest in your self. Etc.
I am trying to understand all of this in the light of what could possibly be out side the work of God in Osteens ministry if it is the former. If it is the latter, then I see the issue.
Roxygirl13
New Member
Just wanted to chime in....does anyone remember not that long ago the big hype on a book called, "The Secret"...it was very similiar I think to Joel's message. No, that book had nothing to do w/ religion or God but just being positive, visualizing what you want, where you want to be and believing in yourself...with that good things will happen, even if it's only feeling better about YOU! People went crazy over that book and I see why, everyone wants to be inspired and if it makes you feel good (and helps you feel better about yourself and your life)....then why not!? It's all in what you take from it, love it or hate...but I think Joel's message is a positive one. I don't make it a point to watch his show but if I pass it by I would take a minute to listen.
W
wkndbeacher
Guest
Olsteen link does not dumb down religion.
I find that Olsteen is very effective and his sermons are very well composed.
True religion is more-so about the individuals then about God because God is concerned about individuals.
If one watches Olsteen then see that he must work hard on his sermons as they are well planned out to support the message and Olsteen delivers the message like it is just simple talking without any speech writer.
Even if one does not like his message, then it would still be hard to deny that Olsteen is a true professional with high standards and high demands on his delivery.
Olsteen is an impressive speaker.
I hate to do this but for once ill have to agree with you
T
toppick08
Guest
JPC sr
James P. Cusick Sr.
The big pic.
Well I have to agree with "Kain" on this one.
You go girl.
Bubba, I have cautioned you so many times.... Lambs do not follow lions.
Well I have to agree with "Kain" on this one.You go girl.
W
wkndbeacher
Guest
You go girl.
Well if Kain said it, its gotta be gold
JPC sr
James P. Cusick Sr.
The big pic.
You have the Hell being just a fear tactic right because Jesus and God said particularly to love thy enemies, link HERE.
Jesus paid the penalty of sin for everybody so everyone gets saved and not even one gets lost.
The cross was not for the righteous nor the self righteous but for us sinners and the cross paid in full not partial payment.
I came out of Catholicism myself and I use to be angry at the Church but now I see the fear as a weakness and so I respect them again because "loving thy enemies" is a hard concept for the mortal men (male and female) to see instead of their fear driven Hell.
God does not torture and torment His enemies in the mystical Hell because Jesus paid the price in full for everyone to be saved.
It is not a choice nor an option, the salvation of all is the free gift from our Father God to His many children.
As a person who has not read the bible yet, (but I fully intend to and very soon) It seems to me personally that all i ever here is negative, blah blah...your going to hell if you don't beleive or whatever. To hear something possitive for once is refreshing to me, and those thousands of people who go to that church, and watch his shows. I would much rather watch VH1, Or my soaps, and I do, but when he is on, I listen, and I find myself feeling good about God, faith, and it softens my heart too! instead of feeling fear, and wanting to avoid, I want to know more, the good and the bad. O know I am probably not going to heaven, but as long as I am here right now, pretending that God loves me, I am special well, it made me very generouse and unselfish and unafraid this Christmas, and for the first time in years, I unpacked my nativity scene and put it by the front door.
You have the Hell being just a fear tactic right because Jesus and God said particularly to love thy enemies, link HERE.Jesus paid the penalty of sin for everybody so everyone gets saved and not even one gets lost.
The cross was not for the righteous nor the self righteous but for us sinners and the cross paid in full not partial payment.
I came out of Catholicism myself and I use to be angry at the Church but now I see the fear as a weakness and so I respect them again because "loving thy enemies" is a hard concept for the mortal men (male and female) to see instead of their fear driven Hell.
God does not torture and torment His enemies in the mystical Hell because Jesus paid the price in full for everyone to be saved.
It is not a choice nor an option, the salvation of all is the free gift from our Father God to His many children.
T
toppick08
Guest
Jesus paid the penalty of sin for everybody so everyone gets saved and not even one gets lost.
The cross was not for the righteous nor the self righteous but for us sinners and the cross paid in full not partial payment.
I came out of Catholicism myself and I use to be angry at the Church but now I see the fear as a weakness and so I respect them again because "loving thy enemies" is a hard concept for the mortal men (male and female) to see instead of their fear driven Hell.
God does not torture and torment His enemies in the mystical Hell because Jesus paid the price in full for everyone to be saved.
It is not a choice nor an option, the salvation of all is the free gift from our Father God to His many children.
I'm no Biblical scholar, but somewhere in the Gospel, Jesus tells many, Turn from me, for I never even knew you.....You must accept him or not. God in blessed Trinity.....Help me out 2a or ItallianScallion......no second chance at death.........ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Well said 2A but, sadly, I think some here really miss this in Joel's message. I enjoyed Joel's uplifting messages but I knew the Bible taught otherwise. If you folks want "feel good" theology then listen to Joel but, as 2A said, this "name it & claim it" stuff is NOT Biblical. God NEVER promises anyone health, happiness & prosperity here on earth. It's waiting in Heaven for those who follow Jesus until the end.
The problem that MOST of you don't see is that, when people go for the "prosperity" message and it doesn't happen, they fall away from God and this is a fatal flaw in some of Joel's teachings! He teaches that everyone can be healed and everyone can have prosperity & riches if they follow God and think positive. It doesn't always happen. Sometimes it does, but not often. God knows how money, fame & riches can take our focus away from Him so He doesn't give it to many of His followers. Paul was one of God's greatest and God wouldn't remove the thorn from him! John the Baptist was called the greatest one born of woman (Matt 11 v 11) and he traveled the desert in camel hair clothing & ate bugs! Some prosperity eh?
BE CAREFUL with these TV preachers: Copeland, Dollar, Hagee, Hinn, Tilton, Meyers, Price, etc.,(I could name a bunch more), all teach doctrines of prosperity more than they do about "taking up our cross to follow Jesus". They're more interested in money & followers than in the truth of God and they'll use (abuse) His name to get it.
Larry, if you come to follow God because of Joel's preaching then I say GREAT, but if you later fall away or leave because the "good life" didn't happen, then you'll see what we mean. If all of you like the "feel good" gospel but can't handle the "hell, fire & brimstone" gospel, you WILL be disappointed in the future, guaranteed. A message that is ALL good or ALL bad (half the truth) is not God's message. It's man's. There is a Heaven & a Hell, there are rich Christians & poor ones. There are very healthy, very sick & very handicapped ones too. Only a select few are guaranteed the great life that Joel speaks of. And God has to enable you to enjoy the riches or you'll end up like the MANY rich fools in Hollywood! (Ecclesiastes 5 v 19). They gained the world but many lost their souls. So, if you're looking to follow God for the material riches and the good life, you'll be sadly disappointed. Go for the spiritual riches and you'll be overjoyed at them.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
(Matthew 7 v 21-23) and JPC is like Jimmy Carter: Whatever he says, I believe the opposite. Sorry, JPC, but your teachings are not from above. Many people's "blood" will be on your head if they follow what you say about eternal life. There is a Heaven & Hell and both are eternal. Sorry if it doesn't fit into your politically correct religious view but the Bible is clear on this. Yes Toppick, once we die, there is no changing our eternal home.
I am just not feeling it 2A, I think it'e your delivery...It's like your yelling at me, and I want to feel like you are angry.But I am tired and should probably go to sleep.
Not angry and not yelling. The bold was just to show you the scripture that directly addresses your statements.
I do not want to impose me on anything about which I proclaim. That is why I post scripture. If there is disagreement over the scripture, then the disagreement is not with me but with the Bible.
Like I said, I don't listen to him. My statement was a generalization. Men of God can be motivational speakers. The converse is not necessarily true.
The Bible clearly states that God creates all to do His will for His purpose. You may not like it, but it is what it is.
So, yes, God created Hitler and Pol Pot and put them into power in order to carry out His plan.
This is the reason that recently the posts have been about the rath of God since JPC insists on posting these lies that are contrary to what the Bible says very clearly.
Jesus paid the penalty of sin for everybody so everyone gets saved and not even one gets lost.
The cross was not for the righteous nor the self righteous but for us sinners and the cross paid in full not partial payment.
I came out of Catholicism myself and I use to be angry at the Church but now I see the fear as a weakness and so I respect them again because "loving thy enemies" is a hard concept for the mortal men (male and female) to see instead of their fear driven Hell.
God does not torture and torment His enemies in the mystical Hell because Jesus paid the price in full for everyone to be saved.
It is not a choice nor an option, the salvation of all is the free gift from our Father God to His many children.
Jesus said very clearly that not everyone is saved or will be saved. He even said the the road and gate are wide that lead to destruction and many shall enter.
Quite frankly, I love the message of the loving and forgiving Father. The God that has provided for us.
But if any one is led to believe the junk that JPC is posting because it is not refuted, then that loss is on those that know better and do not reveal JPC's lies for what they are.
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Great plan. That's some God you got there, 2A.
Who's yours?
It's no secret that I like Joel Osteen and enjoy his sermons, not to mention his books. He's actually quite popular with atheists and agnostics. So, not to put too fine a point on it, but he seems to be better at bringing the word of God to unbelievers than his more rigid counterparts.
So maybe that's what's ticking them off.
So maybe that's what's ticking them off.