Phase I, reopening ?

[mitzi]

If I may ...


Why do you believe the numbers given by the media and government mouthpieces? Most likely, and in all likelihood, the "numbers" this year, related to the dreaded, "COVID-19", are equal to the regular seasonal flu numbers. Each, COVID-19, and the regular seasonal flu, being one in the same. Really JHFC! Did you and everyone else wake up yesterday? Are you and everyone wholly ignorant of past flu yearly deaths? FFS.

I'm going to believe the medical professionals before you. Not the media, not the government mouthpieces. It's not the regular seasonal flu.

Forgive this doctors moments of weakness. Today is a particularly hard day. Im exhausted. Mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. For the most part its part of the job. But over the last few days, as different parts of the country have started "opening up", I have had to listen to folks, some even friends of mine, carry on with an extra dose of 'hoax talk'. Conspiracy theories. Fanciful tails of the deep state, socialism and tyranny. I can tolerate most of it, but if I have to listen to one more person tell me about how COVID has been no worse than the flu I may just lose my ever lovin' mind.

I don't need to hear a bunch of stats today comparing the flu to covid. There are so many flaws in the stats that get thrown around comparing flu to COVID 19. But here is one doctors perspective on the flu vs corona virus. I have taken care of COVID patients in several places and under different circumstances, not just in NYC.
I've treated hundreds if not thousands of flu patients over the years, however:

• I've never held the hand of a young otherwise healthy mother as I watched her die of the flu.
• I've never once had a patient with the flu tell me about how the rest of his family died from the flu.
• Ive never just stood there and watched a patient with the flu struggle to breath and feel completely helpless, knowing there is little I can do to ease their suffering.
• I've never in my career seen so many people die from the flu in such a short period of time, that they had to be buried in mass graves because there was no place to put so many bodies.
• I've never had to arrange a facetime call for a patient dying from the flu, so family could say could bye....or figure out how I can wheel their bed to a glass door so their family can wave goodbye.
• I've never had an entire service of patients who had the flu, were treated and recovered, even pronounced "flu free" and not be able to discharge them because their friends, families, homes, and support structure are afraid of them.
• I've never watched a patient with the flu struggle to breath with oxygen saturations in the 70s and had to make myself NOT put them on a ventilator because if I did it would likely kill them.
• I've never gone to work during flu season and worried that I might catch the flu and die, or that my choice of profession treating the flu would endanger my family.
• I've never endured stories of my colleagues dropping out during a shift and being put on a ventilator due to the flu.
• I have rarely had a patient with the flu that I couldn't make at least a little better.
• I've never had my world shut down completely due to flu season coming. Conversely, I've never been terrified that increased public activity during flu season was going to kill thousands more people (maybe I should have)
• Finally, I've never once treated a patient with the flu like they were a walking hazmat scene, through barriers of tyvek, respirators, goggles and gloves.

If you know me, you know I have no agenda here. I'm not a politician. I'm not a big pharma rep. I'm just a community emergency physician. But I am a real emergency physician. One that sees sick Corona patients. I'm not an urgent care doctor holding a press conference and manipulating data for personal gain. I am actually unemployed myself due to COVID 19. Volumes in emergency departments across the country have plummeted. Me and thousands of other ED staff have lost their jobs. I actually would have a financial interest to try and contribute to all the rhetoric that down plays this terrible disease.
I'm not flashy. I don't have some magic homeopathic potion to sell out of my clinic that will protect you or cure if you have COVID 19. And....I'm not telling you what you want to hear. So unfortunately, this post won't get much traction in the social media world. What I can tell you is this. I am one voice speaking for thousands and thousands of ER doctors like myself who actually do take care of this real disease in real patients. I'm not someone trying to take away freedom. I just want to keep people safe.
Forgive this doctors moments of weakness and God bless anyone that feels the same. Its awfully heavy some days.
J. Michael Wilson, MD, MPH, MSHS
ABEM Board Certified Emergency Medicine

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm going to believe the medical professionals before you.

Which medical professionals? Because a whole ton of them are saying this is bullshit and that the restrictions are ridiculous.

 

[mitzi]

Which medical professionals? Because a whole ton of them are saying this is bullshit and that the restrictions are ridiculous.

My sister-in-law, my doctor, the doctors my daughter works for and a Respiratory Therapist I know.

 

[kom526]

I'm still waiting for most of Florida and Georgia to die. Oh wait, that was supposed to be last week.

Questions for the class: Did you know that Colorado opened up at the same time as FL and GA? Could someone show the group where the media lost its crap and social media was filled with disgusting messages wishing infection and death upon their fellow Coloradoans.

 

[Bann]

My sister-in-law, my doctor, the doctors my daughter works for and a Respiratory Therapist I know.

What about this doctor? Scott Atlas, MD. This is very interesting-

Dr. Scott Atlas: The Evidence Is Consistent That The Fatality Rate Is Much Lower Than What Models Predicted

Hoover Institution senior fellow Dr. Scott Atlas said on Monday that the response to the coronavirus can not be based on fear or catostrophic projections but instead science and logic. In an interview on FOX News, Atlas told Martha MacCallum that the COVID-19 fatality rate is much lower than...

www.realclearpolitics.com

 

[mitzi]

What about this doctor? Scott Atlas, MD. This is very interesting-

Dr. Scott Atlas: The Evidence Is Consistent That The Fatality Rate Is Much Lower Than What Models Predicted

Hoover Institution senior fellow Dr. Scott Atlas said on Monday that the response to the coronavirus can not be based on fear or catostrophic projections but instead science and logic. In an interview on FOX News, Atlas told Martha MacCallum that the COVID-19 fatality rate is much lower than...

www.realclearpolitics.com

Interesting. My caution is from talking to people IRL who say how bad this can be if you get sick. The girl I know that was on a ventilator and nearly died (no pre-existing conditions, overall very healthy). My sister in law who is a Physician at a hospital. The others I mentioned. They have all said, this sickness is not like the seasonal, run of the mill flu. It's bad. I choose to believe them over what I read and see on the news. They are the ones dealing with patients first hand.
Some on here seem to think I'm all for locking myself up in my house or wearing a hazmat suit when I'm out. I'm not. But I won't believe this is just like the flu or a government conspiracy.

 

[vraiblonde]

My sister-in-law, my doctor, the doctors my daughter works for and a Respiratory Therapist I know.

And where are they located? Because people aren't dying in droves in southern Maryland. Or most cities/states in the US.

 

[Bann]

Interesting. My caution is from talking to people IRL who say how bad this can be if you get sick. The girl I know that was on a ventilator and nearly died (no pre-existing conditions, overall very healthy). My sister in law who is a Physician at a hospital. The others I mentioned. They have all said, this sickness is not like the seasonal, run of the mill flu. It's bad. I choose to believe them over what I read and see on the news. They are the ones dealing with patients first hand.
Some on here seem to think I'm all for locking myself up in my house or wearing a hazmat suit when I'm out. I'm not. But I won't believe this is just like the flu or a government conspiracy.

I don't think that about you at all.

I get what you mean about real life, but as a matter of fact, I'm also posting about real life. I[m not saying that people didn't die. I'm not saying the virus isn't terrible for some people. It most definitely is. There are a lot of facts about all of this that have not panned out over the past few months. In hindsight, the use of a ventilator in many of the COVID cases was determined to not be the course of action to take. In the last few months, there have been major and vastly improved methods and medications for treating this virus. Those are real life facts, also.

Like you, I have real life experiences, as well. Just this week, I've heard of 2 more people coming down with symptoms of this virus. Both are male. One is 35, lives outside of Boston, MA (which is a KNOWN high outbreak area). He is in extremely healthy condition (no underlying "medical risk factors" for this disease). The other is male, late 50's or early 60s', he has pneumonia. He lives locally. I am not sure of his medical risk factors other than age.

The evidence all across this country is that the fatality rate is much lower than what the models predicted. What does that mean to me? That means that - yes, there will be sick people. Yes, I could get it from being exposed. Yes, I can also spread it. Will I take precautions? Yeah. I am not taking extreme cautions unless I am forced to. That would be by gunpoint by the government, or by my employer - since I have to make a living. If there is a point at which I am no longer willing to be forced - then I'll stop and accept whatever consequences.

**The point of my posting Dr. Scott Atlas' article was in the title of his article :"The Evidence Is Consistent That The Fatality Rate Is Much Lower Than What Models Predicted". That is a fact. We are seeing that all over the country.

Even though he doesn't live locally, Dr. Atlas is a real doctor. His credentials are impeccable - he's a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and a member of Hoover Institution’s Working Group on Health Care Policy. His medical background is Neurology (neuroradiology), but currently, "He investigates the impact of government and the private sector on access, quality, pricing, and innovation in health care, and he is a frequent policy adviser to government leaders in those areas."

That's why I felt his article was applicable to this discussion.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

My sister-in-law, my doctor, the doctors my daughter works for and a Respiratory Therapist I know.

So, from people that get their information from their employers, via correspondence, alerts, memos, etc., from places like the CDC, Johns Hopkins, The WHO, and University systems? From those that stand to profit, and are profiting, from this hoax. All doctors, nurses, medical people, get their fake information from the very industry, and government, "health agencies", that continues this farce. But then, it's all they know, having been educated by universities funded in whole or in part from a vast number of pharmaceutical companies. Those in the medical industry only regurgitate what they been taught to regurgitate, just like a Macaw. And if any one, in the medical profession, steps out of line with the ongoing and current narrative, thinking for their own, doing verifiable research? They are immediately discredited and most likely will lose their job unless they backtrack their proven claims.

And the below diatribe?

I'm going to believe the medical professionals before you. Not the media, not the government mouthpieces. It's not the regular seasonal flu.

Forgive this doctors moments of weakness. Today is a particularly hard day. Im exhausted. Mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. For the most part its part of the job. But over the last few days, as different parts of the country have started "opening up", I have had to listen to folks, some even friends of mine, carry on with an extra dose of 'hoax talk'. Conspiracy theories. Fanciful tails of the deep state, socialism and tyranny. I can tolerate most of it, but if I have to listen to one more person tell me about how COVID has been no worse than the flu I may just lose my ever lovin' mind.

I don't need to hear a bunch of stats today comparing the flu to covid. There are so many flaws in the stats that get thrown around comparing flu to COVID 19. But here is one doctors perspective on the flu vs corona virus. I have taken care of COVID patients in several places and under different circumstances, not just in NYC.
I've treated hundreds if not thousands of flu patients over the years, however:

• I've never held the hand of a young otherwise healthy mother as I watched her die of the flu.
• I've never once had a patient with the flu tell me about how the rest of his family died from the flu.
• Ive never just stood there and watched a patient with the flu struggle to breath and feel completely helpless, knowing there is little I can do to ease their suffering.
• I've never in my career seen so many people die from the flu in such a short period of time, that they had to be buried in mass graves because there was no place to put so many bodies.
• I've never had to arrange a facetime call for a patient dying from the flu, so family could say could bye....or figure out how I can wheel their bed to a glass door so their family can wave goodbye.
• I've never had an entire service of patients who had the flu, were treated and recovered, even pronounced "flu free" and not be able to discharge them because their friends, families, homes, and support structure are afraid of them.
• I've never watched a patient with the flu struggle to breath with oxygen saturations in the 70s and had to make myself NOT put them on a ventilator because if I did it would likely kill them.
• I've never gone to work during flu season and worried that I might catch the flu and die, or that my choice of profession treating the flu would endanger my family.
• I've never endured stories of my colleagues dropping out during a shift and being put on a ventilator due to the flu.
• I have rarely had a patient with the flu that I couldn't make at least a little better.
• I've never had my world shut down completely due to flu season coming. Conversely, I've never been terrified that increased public activity during flu season was going to kill thousands more people (maybe I should have)
• Finally, I've never once treated a patient with the flu like they were a walking hazmat scene, through barriers of tyvek, respirators, goggles and gloves.

If you know me, you know I have no agenda here. I'm not a politician. I'm not a big pharma rep. I'm just a community emergency physician. But I am a real emergency physician. One that sees sick Corona patients. I'm not an urgent care doctor holding a press conference and manipulating data for personal gain. I am actually unemployed myself due to COVID 19. Volumes in emergency departments across the country have plummeted. Me and thousands of other ED staff have lost their jobs. I actually would have a financial interest to try and contribute to all the rhetoric that down plays this terrible disease.
I'm not flashy. I don't have some magic homeopathic potion to sell out of my clinic that will protect you or cure if you have COVID 19. And....I'm not telling you what you want to hear. So unfortunately, this post won't get much traction in the social media world. What I can tell you is this. I am one voice speaking for thousands and thousands of ER doctors like myself who actually do take care of this real disease in real patients. I'm not someone trying to take away freedom. I just want to keep people safe.
Forgive this doctors moments of weakness and God bless anyone that feels the same. Its awfully heavy some days.
J. Michael Wilson, MD, MPH, MSHS
ABEM Board Certified Emergency Medicine

Hogwash, hyperbole, gibberish, in an attempt to scare the masses using the official monikers like, MD, MPH, MSHS ABEM, Board Certified Emergency Medicine, to give some credence of truth to the BS equivocation.

 

[PrchJrkr]

All I will add to this thread is my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Yes, I believe that we are being played by our overlords into giving up our rights as citizens. If we don't get back those rights, within the next few months, things are going to get very ugly. Do I think that we've been lead to think that they know better? Yes, of course that's what they want us to think, so we must show them that we know this and we won't stand for it.

Does it hurt me to wear a face mask to put others at ease? It fogs up my glasses, but that's temporary and I will live with it for the time being. Do I think it's protecting me and others? Debatable, but I have better things to spend my time worrying about. If it makes others more comfortable that I maintain a "safe" distance, then I will. Has this whole thing been a big pain in the ass? Yes it has, but in the grand scheme of things, it has been a lot worse for others than it has for me and I feel blessed.

Being the primary contact and caregiver for someone in the high risk category, I will take every precaution within my power to not expose her to this ugly flu bug. I'm not going to berate anyone that doesn't feel the same way. This is MY life. I don't expect others to give up their comfort/principles just because I have a situation that warrants caution.

If you were working a crap job when this thing hit and you are now living better because of the infusion of "our" money that you receive from the government, don't expect this to go on forever. If you like the extra money, put forth a little effort and better your lot in life, don't think that just because you were given a temporary gift, that you deserve that type of money if you go back to flipping burgers. If you don't go back to work when offered a position, all government compensation should end immediately.

 

[Ken King]

Yeah, trust the medical professionals. Go for it. This is the same group that it is estimated accounts for between 200,000 to 500,000 annual deaths due to preventable medical errors. The same group that makes sure that fact never appears on a death certificate.

 

[RareBreed]

All I will add to this thread is my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Yes, I believe that we are being played by our overlords into giving up our rights as citizens. If we don't get back those rights, within the next few months, things are going to get very ugly. Do I think that we've been lead to think that they know better? Yes, of course that's what they want us to think, so we must show them that we know this and we won't stand for it.

Does it hurt me to wear a face mask to put others at ease? It fogs up my glasses, but that's temporary and I will live with it for the time being. Do I think it's protecting me and others? Debatable, but I have better things to spend my time worrying about. If it makes others more comfortable that I maintain a "safe" distance, then I will. Has this whole thing been a big pain in the ass? Yes it has, but in the grand scheme of things, it has been a lot worse for others than it has for me and I feel blessed.

Being the primary contact and caregiver for someone in the high risk category, I will take every precaution within my power to not expose her to this ugly flu bug. I'm not going to berate anyone that doesn't feel the same way. This is MY life. I don't expect others to give up their comfort/principles just because I have a situation that warrants caution.

If you were working a crap job when this thing hit and you are now living better because of the infusion of "our" money that you receive from the government, don't expect this to go on forever. If you like the extra money, put forth a little effort and better your lot in life, don't think that just because you were given a temporary gift, that you deserve that type of money if you go back to flipping burgers. If you don't go back to work when offered a position, all government compensation should end immediately.

Second paragraph sums up my feelings about the whole thing.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

I wouldn't say a ton of medical professionals say it's a bunch of crap, but definately some have. There will always be disagreement in the medical field, it is science mixed in with experiences and some other things. Drugs dont work the same way on everybody, I found out Vicodin does not work on pain as good as ibuprofen does for me.

I'm not saying they are wrong or right, but recently I saw a doctor claim AIDS isnt caused by HIV.

I think it is hard to argue with the fact that most medical professionals are still learning about this virus and recommend the distancing, facemasks etc.

 

[BernieP]

I'm a bit in the middle, think if a politician dudnt do something and thousands died, their political career would be over. DeBlasio is to blame for NYCs mess, if you remember he left mass transit etc running until there was an oh crap moment. DeBlasio is done.

Look at the orders certain governors gave about sending sick patients to nursing homes?
Cuomo has blood on his hands, as does DeBlasio but both know they will get re-elected and Cuomo is now a rockstar

 

[BernieP]

I tend to look at people as basically good creatures with a moderate amount of self-interest mixed in. Especially scientists and doctors and medical researchers, who are not elected and have nothing to gain from giving bad news. Politicians, maybe some of them are as you describe, but I think most of them are not like you describe.

Politicians,, the vast majority are not in it for "public service". They like the power and the money. Politician is not what it once was, service and personal sacrifice, now it's a career.

 

[DaSDGuy]

Discussing the opinions of the medical profession should always include the reminder that doctors, nurses, and all others involved accurately describe their jobs as "practicing" medicine.
Please let me know when they stop "practicing".

 

[Grumpy]

This is something I believed in long before the Corona virus, and why I think the lockdown and masks aren't gonna help this situation. Note- I am not saying this virus/flu isn't bad, but you can't hide from it. Apologies if this vid has been posted previously.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Look at the orders certain governors gave about sending sick patients to nursing homes?
Cuomo has blood on his hands, as does DeBlasio but both know they will get re-elected and Cuomo is now a rockstar

I think that was a calculated move, most people in nursing homes dont vote any more, he can twist that into the nursing homes fault and trying to save the most people.

They are an easy faceless villain like "big pharma" or "the rich".

Make no mistake, I do not support any dirtbag like Coumo, I do believe doctors and nurses do have humanities best interest at heart though.

 

[mitzi]

And where are they located? Because people aren't dying in droves in southern Maryland. Or most cities/states in the US.

All in Maryland except sister in law, not Southern Maryland though. I'm not necessarily talking of dying, I'm talking of how sick people get that are hospitalized.

 

[mitzi]

I don't think that about you at all.

I didn't mean that you did. I never thought that at all. Thanks for sharing the article. It was very informative.