Pit bulls and your opinion

What is your opinion regarding Pit bulls


  • Total voters
    97
  • Poll closed .

LateApex

New Member
keep splitin' hairs......

I'm not splitting hairs.

I'm arguing your point of contention that they are physiologically different from other dogs.

You call me out about physiology and I'm trying to educate you so that in the future you don't sound like an idiot...
 

tommyjones

New Member
I'm not splitting hairs.

I'm arguing your point of contention that they are physiologically different from other dogs.

You call me out about physiology and I'm trying to educate you so that in the future you don't sound like an idiot...

i was actually responding to you, but fine, PHYSICALLY they are different, and that is what presents the greater risk.

want to argue the actual point instead of gammar.....
 

LateApex

New Member
i was actually responding to you, but fine, PHYSICALLY they are different, and that is what presents the greater risk.

want to argue the actual point instead of gammar.....

No.. You can't use that path of logic either.

Because, if you do, then you have to say that all athletic breeds are dangerous.

i.e. a bull mastiff, german sheppard, etc...

My college roommate had 2 mastiffs. One weighed 180 lbs and the other close to 200 lbs.

I guarantee you that those dogs would have eaten me or any one of you in one bite...

What makes the dogs different is the socialization, care, and training of dogs. ergo the owner. The onus of responsibility lies with all owners of dogs. All dogs have attacked someone/something. The breed isn't responsible. The humans that take care of them are...
 

tommyjones

New Member
No.. You can't use that path of logic either.

Because, if you do, then you have to say that all athletic breeds are dangerous.

i.e. a bull mastiff, german sheppard, etc...

My college roommate had 2 mastiffs. One weighed 180 lbs and the other close to 200 lbs.

I guarantee you that those dogs would have eaten me or any one of you in one bite...

What makes the dogs different is the socialization, care, and training of dogs. ergo the owner. The onus of responsibility lies with all owners of dogs. All dogs have attacked someone/something. The breed isn't responsible. The humans that take care of them are...

whatever....

again i say to you, If the dog that bit you when you were a kid would you still be here?

there is a difference between a lab and a pit. I contend that if a pit had attacked you with the same realtive viciousness, all other things being the same, the physical differences between the dogs means that the injuries suffered at the teeth of the pit would be worse.


now you can go back to arguing that pits are no more dangerous than mini pins......
 

LateApex

New Member
whatever....

again i say to you, If the dog that bit you when you were a kid would you still be here?

there is a difference between a lab and a pit. I contend that if a pit had attacked you with the same realtive viciousness, all other things being the same, the physical differences between the dogs means that the injuries suffered at the teeth of the pit would be worse.


now you can go back to arguing that pits are no more dangerous than mini pins......

Okay.

Now that's more clear and concise.

And, in all honesty I can't deny whether it would have caused more damage nor can I confirm it either.

More damage? Maybe. Lab Rets. aren't small dogs either. But who's to say what would have happened.

What did happen was it was one of those, often times considered, gentle breeds that attacked me.

My point at the time was that any dog can be vicious if not properly cared for.

Let me ask you this: what do you think would have happened if it were a Rott or German Sherpard or any other athletic dog...
 

tommyjones

New Member
Okay.

Now that's more clear and concise.

And, in all honesty I can't deny whether it would have caused more damage nor can I confirm it either.

More damage? Maybe. Lab Rets. aren't small dogs either. But who's to say what would have happened.

What did happen was it was one of those, often times considered, gentle breeds that attacked me.

My point at the time was that any dog can be vicious if not properly cared for.

Let me ask you this: what do you think would have happened if it were a Rott or German Sherpard or any other athletic dog...

i understand that the larger and more agressive the BREED the more potential for injury during an attack.
 

LateApex

New Member
i understand that the larger and more agressive the BREED the more potential for injury during an attack.

No.

What you should understand is:

An improperly trained, neglected, and unsocialized dog has the potential to be more aggressive and cause greater harm during an attack...
 

LateApex

New Member
no, what you need to understand is that you are blind.


:fin:

LateApex's guide to internet futility:

1) Find a topic you know nothing about.
2) Argue facts that are incorrect.
3) Get corrected about number 2.
4) Get frustrated.

Sir, I'm sorry that I caused you distress and that having an intelligent argument is more than your feeble mind can handle...

Have a wonderful day!

kthxbai...
 

tommyjones

New Member
LateApex's guide to internet futility:

1) Find a topic you know nothing about.
2) Argue facts that are incorrect.
3) Get corrected about number 2.
4) Get frustrated.

Sir, I'm sorry that I caused you distress and that having an intelligent argument is more than your feeble mind can handle...

Have a wonderful day!

kthxbai...

just becasue you can say the same lies the most times doesn't mean you ahev proven anything. I have posted my personal experiences, you choose to ignore.

i hope your dogs never eat anyone's child or pet.
 

LateApex

New Member
just becasue you can say the same lies the most times doesn't mean you ahev proven anything. I have posted my personal experiences, you choose to ignore.

i hope your dogs never eat anyone's child or pet.

And I hope someone's Lab Ret. doesn't do the same thing...

Sounds idiotic doesn't it?
 

Solja_Boy

New Member
just becasue you can say the same lies the most times doesn't mean you ahev proven anything. I have posted my personal experiences, you choose to ignore.

i hope your dogs never eat anyone's child or pet.

Ok so by your hypothetical logic. If your bad experience had been with a lab and not a Pit. Would a Lab be the dangerous breed that no one should have?

I have had several breeds of dog over the course of my life 1 lab, 3 German Shepards , 1 pit, 1 lab-akita mix.

None of the dogs have ever been aggressive or attacked a person. I am firm believer that it is all how you raise the dog and that it has nothing to do with the breed.
 
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krazd_kat

Help "Invisible Dogs"
Haven't you figured out that there is no sense in arguing here! Some peeps choose not to get it!!:deadhorse:deadhorse

I know, but I have to say something else....

In my experience with people that have been bitten by their own dog, be it pit or lab, and it wasn't a case of being startled or the animal in pain, most owner bites are due to the fact that the owner has raised the dog as an equal....

I don't know why my dog bit me, it was on the bed w/me, it was on the couch, I was hugging it on the floor.​

It's nice when you can treat a dog like that, but the fact is you can't treat them all that way. I have certain dogs that I can play tug of war with and it's a great game, I have others that cannot play that game. You need to know your dog and read it. And the dog has to respect it's owners as the one that makes the rules. (not to mention the socialization and being a responsible owner)

Some of you will never admit that their are good pits in the right hands, regardless of how many owners can prove you wrong. You will continue to villify the breeds every chance you get - that's sad and shows a very closed mind.

I used to attend a number of Rottweiler gatherings and we would have 20 Rottweilers (with a number of these being rescue dogs, that we didn't know their breeding) in one building and not even that big of a building. In the 4 years I went to them, we only had one issue and that was a new owner that didn't read the dog right. People that knew we were there would come in the door, prepared to see a bunch of snarling beasts that we were fighting to hold on to... many older people changed their minds about Rottweilers after being invited to our gatherings. Mind you they would never own one, but they were open minded enough to admit that these dogs can actually be marvelous companions.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Ok Ken. I'll see that and raise you the following from that very same site:

The conclusions that we draw about dangerous canines is derived from what we know about them. Our information is from media accounts, government pronouncements and studies, organizations such as the Centers for Disease Control, and experts who have conducted original research as well as reviews of other materials. Unfortunately, however, there are serious gaps in the data on this subject, leaving our assumptions and conclusions open to doubt.

Three commonly accepted sources of information about canine homicides are the CDC, Merritt Clifton (editor of Animal People), and Karen Delise (author of Fatal Dog Attacks). However, none of their figures agree. This is largely because of the difficulties involved in gathering dog bite statistics. When the CDC reported on canine homicides, one of their methods of ensuring accuracy was to eliminate all death reports that did not appear in LexisNexis. When Delise did her study, she included all homicides which were confirmed in other reliable ways, such as by interviews and police files, and arrived at a figure that was 100 deaths higher than the CDC. Clifton's study includes both the USA and Canada, and is derived from newspaper accounts as well as his review of photographs and files.

Delise illustrates the information problem in the following graphic way (quoted from E-mail by her to Attorney Kenneth Phillips):

Consider five fatal attacks included in the CDC statistics.

A man was bitten in the forearm by a Pit bull. The bite was not serious but introduced into the wound was a virulent and fast spreading bacteria. The man died 4 days later from this virulent bacterial infection.

A teenage girl give birth to a infant, distraught and frightened, she tossed the hours-old infant into a neighboring-junk-strewn yard where two Pit bulls resided. The dogs killed the newborn.

A German shepherd mixed breed dog went into a bedroom, lifted a newborn out of a crib and carried the infant (by the head) into the living room where the adults were seated.

A man restrains his girlfriend, while ordering his Pit bull to repeatedly attack her. He is eventually convicted of murder and is serving a 20-year sentence.

An elderly man attempts to stop his German Shepherd dog from fence fighting with his neighbor's dog, the dog turns on his owner, severely mauling him, inflicting fatal head and neck wounds.

The CDC was right, in that five people died as a result of a dog bite. But were all these bites the result of aggression? Were they the same type or level of aggression? Which behaviors initiated the attack, human or canine? So the number of deaths by dogs (as per the CDC) cannot be used to define aggression, or the aggression of certain breeds, as aggression is not defined or qualified.

The disagreement among experts, and the dearth of recent statistics, were two of the reasons why an appellate court for the State of Ohio ruled in 2006 that a pair of breed-based dangerous dog laws were unconstitutional. City of Toledo v. Tellings, 5th Dist. No. L-04-1224, 2006-Ohio-975 (Ohio App. 2006). The supreme court of the state accepted this case for review in August 2006 (110 Ohio St.3d 1435). The court of appeals began its analysis by noting:

Breed-specific laws were enacted because, in the past, courts and legislatures considered it to be a "well-known fact" that pit bulls are "unpredictable," "vicious" creatures owned only by "drug dealers, dog fighters, gang members," or other undesirable members of society. [Citing State v. Anderson (1991), 57 Ohio St.3d 168.] ... As scientific information advances and becomes available, courts have a duty to reconsider issues and make decisions which are supported by the actual evidence presented, instead of relying on "common knowledge" and opinion generated by newspaper sensationalism and hearsay, rather than accurate, scientific evidence. [Par.] As the evidence presented in this case demonstrates, previous cases involving "vicious dog" laws, especially from the late 1980's and early 1990's, relied on what is now outdated information which perpetuated a stereotypical image of pit bulls. ... The trial court noted that all the animal behaviorists from both parties testified that a pit bull, trained and properly socialized like other dogs, would not exhibit any more dangerous characteristics than any other breed of dog. After considering all the evidence before it, the trial court agreed, finding that pit bulls, as a breed, are not more dangerous than other breeds."

The court then stated that,

Our review of the record reveals no current statistics since 1996 were presented to support the notion that pit bulls have continued to be involved in a "disproportionate number" of attacks or fatalities. In our view, despite its own factual finding to the contrary, the trial court improperly relied on an outdated, irrelevant, and inadmissible source of factual information to revive the "vicious" pit bull sentiment and justify the finding that the statutes and ordinance are constitutional.



:patriot:
Pixie,

You’ve trumped nothing as I too have read the information on that site and what you aren't getting is that I am in agreement that breed specific bans can't account for every animal of any given breed nor should they be enacted and the stereotype associated with pits is just that - a generalization not supported by facts. With that said I do see that the pit breed has been reported in more cases and this, to me, is a flag that should be used for one thing and one thing only, that being that these dogs aren’t for everyone. Pits are strong and powerful animals that demand a vigilant and protective owner that controls the animal so that they are not in a position to cause damage to others.

While I believe that a dog is as good as its owner we know that there are many owners not worthy of the breed, we know that some breeding has led to a sub-class of aggressive dogs within the breed, and we know that when a pit attacks it isn’t the simple nipping type bite. Now, on the other side of the coin, those that raise and treat their dogs properly, socialize the animal, provide adequate control over the animal and are worthy of the breed can own and raise a fine animal, there is no doubt that there are some very damn nice pits out there. And this is true for many breeds and not just the pits.

I provided the only current data I could find simply because you disputed and seemingly disregarded data that was a decade old and the data provided shows that pits cause greater damage than most other breeds. What the data doesn’t show were the conditions and circumstances surrounding the attacks reported. Thus it shouldn’t be used to support any form of ban, but for informational purposes it does hold value in pointing out, as I have said above, that the breed isn’t for everyone and that those that chose to own these type animals need to exercise greater care and control over the animals to protect not only themselves but all others as well.
 

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
Pixie,

You’ve trumped nothing as I too have read the information on that site and what you aren't getting is that I am in agreement that breed specific bans can't account for every animal of any given breed nor should they be enacted and the stereotype associated with pits is just that - a generalization not supported by facts. With that said I do see that the pit breed has been reported in more cases and this, to me, is a flag that should be used for one thing and one thing only, that being that these dogs aren’t for everyone. Pits are strong and powerful animals that demand a vigilant and protective owner that controls the animal so that they are not in a position to cause damage to others.

While I believe that a dog is as good as its owner we know that there are many owners not worthy of the breed, we know that some breeding has led to a sub-class of aggressive dogs within the breed, and we know that when a pit attacks it isn’t the simple nipping type bite. Now, on the other side of the coin, those that raise and treat their dogs properly, socialize the animal, provide adequate control over the animal and are worthy of the breed can own and raise a fine animal, there is no doubt that there are some very damn nice pits out there. And this is true for many breeds and not just the pits.

I provided the only current data I could find simply because you disputed and seemingly disregarded data that was a decade old and the data provided shows that pits cause greater damage than most other breeds. What the data doesn’t show were the conditions and circumstances surrounding the attacks reported. Thus it shouldn’t be used to support any form of ban, but for informational purposes it does hold value in pointing out, as I have said above, that the breed isn’t for everyone and that those that chose to own these type animals need to exercise greater care and control over the animals to protect not only themselves but all others as well.

But ken, the data you provided was in fact unreliable at best since none of the 3 "authorities" can agree on numbers. I agree and always have that a pit bull or any other powerful headstrong dog is NOT for everyone. What I disagree with is that they are any MORE dangerous than the others.
 
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