Planned Parenthood

[tommyjones]

Sources cited.

you are stretching it to say that is racist. in fact the first part that you made red indicated exactly the opposite.....



as for wanting to decrease the number of retarded and infirm, i am guessing you are in favor of MORE mentally and physically defective children being born?

Planned parenthood and or medical professionals have gone to great lengths to help us have healthier children more often, i dont see how that is a bad thing.

 

[tommyjones]

As I said before the site I posted isn't the only one, and in fact wasn't the site that Bob was fussin' about to begin with, not to mention the site I posted actually cites its sources, so at least when I do get around to reading Sanger's material I'll know where to look.



"Greater understanding and practice of planned parenthood, through the use of contraceptive measures prescribed by doctors and clinics, will mean that there will be more strong and healthy children and fewer defective and handicapped babies unable to find a useful or happy place in life."

I'll still call it as I see it. It reeks.

do you not know what contraceptives are?

 

[libby]

you are stretching it to say that is racist. in fact the first part that you made red indicated exactly the opposite.....



as for wanting to decrease the number of retarded and infirm, i am guessing you are in favor of MORE mentally and physically defective children being born?

Planned parenthood and or medical professionals have gone to great lengths to help us have healthier children more often, i dont see how that is a bad thing.

It's the engineering of births that is the problem. Today we have her exact philosophy in practice with identification of genes in an unborn child for the purpose of weighing the likelihood of some sort of disorder, and terminating a pregnancy.
As I said earlier, I do not blame Sanger personally for what is going on today. No one person is responsible for any of the evils of the world, from hunger to abortion. However, we all need to critically consider the the fundamental message and the precedent it sets.

 

[Radiant1]

Planned parenthood and or medical professionals have gone to great lengths to help us have healthier children more often, i dont see how that is a bad thing.

It's not a bad thing in and of itself but PP readily performs abortions. If they didn't you would hear no argument from me.

do you not know what contraceptives are?

Yes I do. In fact I'm more educated on contraceptives than you are, seeing how you don't seem to understand that some are abortificients.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

It's not a bad thing in and of itself but PP readily performs abortions. If they didn't you would hear no argument from me.

:shrug:

 

[tommyjones]

It's not a bad thing in and of itself but PP readily performs abortions. If they didn't you would hear no argument from me.



Yes I do. In fact I'm more educated on contraceptives than you are, seeing how you don't seem to understand that some are abortificients.

i understand that you have some weird idea of when life starts. an egg that doesnt stick isn't an abortion in my book.

I'm guessing catholic, right?

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

i understand that you have some weird idea of when life starts. an egg that doesnt stick isn't an abortion in my book.

I'm guessing catholic, right?

Don't forget...you aren't allowed to "spill your seed" either...so basically, no masturbating, no sex w/condoms, BC isn't allowed because sex is only for procreation...so no doing the do unless you plan to have babies...but you also can't relieve pent-up desire because that is breaking the "spilling" rule...so you are basically effed unless you are effing to have kids..

 

[vegmom]

Yes I do. In fact I'm more educated on contraceptives than you are, seeing how you don't seem to understand that some are abortificients.

Contraception by definition prevents conception. They do not cause abortions because in order for one to occur conception has to have taken place. A fertilized egg does not equal conception. The egg must implant itself in the uterine lining before it can start to multiply and grow into an embryo. No implantation means no conception. Would you consider a fertilized egg that does not implant due to natural causes a misscarriage? If so than most sexually active women have had dozens.

I am personally opposed to abortion, but saying that contraceptives of any type causes abortions is medically inaccurate.

 

[Radiant1]

i understand that you have some weird idea of when life starts. an egg that doesnt stick isn't an abortion in my book.

I'm guessing catholic, right?

It's not such a "weird" idea Tommy.

You would guess correctly; however, that has no real bearing on my views on the abortion issue. It hasn't changed my views on contraception either. So, maybe I'm not a good Catholic in that regard. :shrug:

Contraception by definition prevents conception. They do not cause abortions because in order for one to occur conception has to have taken place. A fertilized egg does not equal conception. The egg must implant itself in the uterine lining before it can start to multiply and grow into an embryo. No implantation means no conception. Would you consider a fertilized egg that does not implant due to natural causes a misscarriage? If so than most sexually active women have had dozens.

I am personally opposed to abortion, but saying that contraceptives of any type causes abortions is medically inaccurate.

A fertilized egg does indeed equal conception or it wouldn't be fertilized, and it grows before implantation into the uterus.

con·cep·tion –noun
1. the act of conceiving; the state of being conceived.
2. fertilization; inception of pregnancy.

Yes, I do consider it a miscarriage when the fertilized egg (or zygote since you want to get medical) cannot implant by natural causes, and I'm sure it happens countless times to women around the world on a daily basis with them never having known they conceived.

Are you in the medical field Vegmom?

 

[This_person]

Contraception is not abortion. An abortion is what happens when a pregnancy ends before the fetus is viable, either by nature (misscarriage) or medical inducement.

Not to nit pick myself, but it's what happens AFTER the fetus is viable, also, when it's medically induced.

 

[tommyjones]

It's not such a "weird" idea Tommy.

You would guess correctly; however, that has no real bearing on my views on the abortion issue. It hasn't changed my views on contraception either. So, maybe I'm not a good Catholic in that regard. :shrug:



A fertilized egg does indeed equal conception or it wouldn't be fertilized, and it grows before implantation into the uterus.

con·cep·tion –noun
1. the act of conceiving; the state of being conceived.
2. fertilization; inception of pregnancy.

Yes, I do consider it a miscarriage when the fertilized egg (or zygote since you want to get medical) cannot implant by natural causes, and I'm sure it happens countless times to women around the world on a daily basis with them never having known they conceived.

Are you in the medical field Vegmom?

so you not only get to decide what is morally correct for all women, but you are so righteous that you can determine when your church is wrong and you can ignore them? interesting....

so if you practice conception in your own life (as you post indicates) by your own definition you may had countless "abortions" as the result of your taking contraceptives.
na, thats not hypocritical in the least

 

[Radiant1]

so you not only get to decide what is morally correct for all women, but you are so righteous that you can determine when your church is wrong and you can ignore them? interesting....

so if you practice conception in your own life (as you post indicates) by your own definition you may had countless "abortions" as the result of your taking contraceptives.
na, thats not hypocritical in the least

You're making assumptions again Tommy. Don't confuse birth control with contraceptive. All true contraceptives can be called birth control but not all birth control can be called a contraceptive. There's a difference between a contraceptive and an abortificient. Different forms of birth control work in different ways.

A bit of my background for you...I was not always Catholic. I did use the pill before I became Catholic and had two miscarriages and then two term pregnancies (two boys). Had I known then that the pill can at times work as an abortificient I would not have used it. After I became Catholic I was educated on abortificients and then used the NFP method (a true contraceptive, not an abortificient) and went on to have another two children (two girls).

At any rate, all four of the term pregnancies resulted in cesarean section. I was told by my OB after the last child that because I had so many cesarean sections that I would not be able to carry another pregnancy to term without rupturing my uterus, so therefore had my tubes tied with Church approval.

I don't have a problem with birth control as long as its a true contraceptive and not an abortificient/abortion, and I've already explained the difference and my reasons why. Call me a hypocrite for that if you will. :shrug:

 

[tommyjones]

You're making assumptions again Tommy. Don't confuse birth control with contraceptive. All true contraceptives can be called birth control but not all birth control can be called a contraceptive. There's a difference between a contraceptive and an abortificient. Different forms of birth control work in different ways.

A bit of my background for you...I was not always Catholic. I did use the pill before I became Catholic and had two miscarriages and then two term pregnancies (two boys). Had I known then that the pill can at times work as an abortificient I would not have used it. After I became Catholic I was educated on abortificients and then used the NFP method (a true contraceptive, not an abortificient) and went on to have another two children (two girls).

At any rate, all four of the term pregnancies resulted in cesarean section. I was told by my OB after the last child that because I had so many cesarean sections that I would not be able to carry another pregnancy to term without rupturing my uterus, so therefore had my tubes tied with Church approval.

I don't have a problem with birth control as long as its a true contraceptive and not an abortificient/abortion, and I've already explained the difference and my reasons why. Call me a hypocrite for that if you will. :shrug:

i call you a hypocrite because you use religion as the basis for your comments, but then throw ou tthe parts that you dont agree with when it suits you. (i.e. birth contro, premarital sex, not divorcing etc.)

I dont care about your past, what i do care about is your thinking you have a right to tell anybody else how to live their life, especially when it is based on your religion, one that you freely ignore when it suits you.
that is hypocritical my dear.

 

[vegmom]

Not to nit pick myself, but it's what happens AFTER the fetus is viable, also, when it's medically induced.

A viable fetus would be delivered, not aborted (medically or spontaneously aka miscarried). Viable means it could live on its own outside the womb- although that time gets pushed back by medical science every year. Who knows- we may have humans incubated inside some type of artificial pod one day.

 

[teenageddirtbag]

I have only read bits and pieces of this thread.
All I have to say is.
Abortion is murder whether you have an abortion at 3 weeks pregnant or three months pregnant.
Once you have a fertilized egg in you, it will be a baby eventually(considering you do not have a miscarriage). just because the baby inside of you cannot live on it's own outside the womb at the time that you abort the baby, doesnt mean it wasn't going to be able to in a few months, and it is still a person.
Around the 5th week of pregnancy is when that little guy has a heartbeat, and if you stop that heartbeat and take the baby out, it is murder. plain and simple.
Just because you do not consider the pregnancy a baby yet, doesnt mean it will not be considered a baby within a few months.
It is an excuse when people say,
"i was only pregnant for a month, it wasnt really a baby yet."
It's what people say when they don't want to feel bad for killing thier child. When you are pregnant it is a baby, and after 9 months, it is a person, and if you stop the pregnancy, you are taking a life that would have been.

IF YOU ARE PREGNANT AT ANY STAGE IT WILL EVENTUALLY BE A BABY. GETTING RID OF THAT BABY IS TAKING A LIFE.

 

[Fugazi]

I have only read bits and pieces of this thread.
All I have to say is.
Abortion is murder whether you have an abortion at 3 weeks pregnant or three months pregnant.
Once you have a fertilized egg in you, it will be a baby eventually(considering you do not have a miscarriage). just because the baby inside of you cannot live on it's own outside the womb at the time that you abort the baby, doesnt mean it wasn't going to be able to in a few months, and it is still a person.
Around the 5th week of pregnancy is when that little guy has a heartbeat, and if you stop that heartbeat and take the baby out, it is murder. plain and simple.
Just because you do not consider the pregnancy a baby yet, doesnt mean it will not be considered a baby within a few months.
It is an excuse when people say,
"i was only pregnant for a month, it wasnt really a baby yet."
It's what people say when they don't want to feel bad for killing thier child. When you are pregnant it is a baby, and after 9 months, it is a person, and if you stop the pregnancy, you are taking a life that would have been.

IF YOU ARE PREGNANT AT ANY STAGE IT WILL EVENTUALLY BE A BABY. GETTING RID OF THAT BABY IS TAKING A LIFE.

 

[itsbob]

Fishing for context that makes her referenced words acceptable is an attempt to distract from the fact that Margaret Sanger was a racist, period. No amount of maneuvering can negate an oft repeated theme in her opinions.
I'd say nice try, but it wasn't.

Yet this is EXACTLY what youa re doing to label her a racist.

You don't like PP because they provide abortions. Sanger didn't like abortions either, and looked at contraception as a way to stop the needless amount of them.

OK, you quoted her as "Make sure the blacks don't think we are trying to eradicate their race"..

Did you know she was accused of doing JUST that to Italians, Baptists and Irishmen, WELL before the quote you use to label her a racist? Apparently you didn't know that, or you'd be able to make the connection between the two, and see how ignorant it really is to label her a racist.

And I may be wrong, but I'm pretty confident in 1916 that most Italians, Baptist's and Irishmen were WHITE!!!

Aparently she learned from her mistake, the introduction of contraception, and didn't want to make it again. I know it's difficult to understand, but PLEASE try.

You just keep believing what you are told, and don't do ANY research for yourself.

 

[vegmom]

Once you have a fertilized egg in you, it will be a baby eventually(considering you do not have a miscarriage).

No, it doesn't.

A fertilized egg that has not implanted has no chance of becoming a baby. Women pass unimplanted fertilized eggs all the time without any sort of medical intervention. You are not pregnant until it implants. Fertilized egg = potential pregnancy. No pregnancy, no baby.

 

[teenageddirtbag]

No, it doesn't.

A fertilized egg that has not implanted has no chance of becoming a baby. Women pass unimplanted fertilized eggs all the time without any sort of medical intervention. You are not pregnant until it implants. Fertilized egg = potential pregnancy. No pregnancy, no baby.

Okay i worded it wrong, once you pee on the stick and it says "you're pregnant." and you confirmed it ,It's a baby. and if you get rid of that pregnancy you get rid of a life.

 

[itsbob]

It's the engineering of births that is the problem. Today we have her exact philosophy in practice with identification of genes in an unborn child for the purpose of weighing the likelihood of some sort of disorder, and terminating a pregnancy.

This is a bad thing??

"According to our test, your baby has no usable brain function. Will never be able to form a coherent though, walk, talk or communicate in any means. If he's born we can keep him alive by artificial means, and can live out a complete life."

What would you do?