Planned Parenthood

[Radiant1]

How so, if your body has not began to secrete the hormones indicitive of pregnancy?

HCG production begins at conception, not implantation.

Prove it or you're making that up. There is NO hormonal change until that egg is planted. The entire way pregnancy tests work is by detecting hormones present only after pregnancy occurs.

Again, pregnancy occurs at conception not implantation, and HCG can be detected at such an early stage by a blood test.

who brought up religion isn't really an issue. It is obvious from your position that you are heavily influenced by religion with respect to when life starts, but you make the moral judgment everyday to take contrceptives, have sex out of wedlock, to be divorced, or to break any of the other moral 'rules' you so choose. All the while telling others that making a moral judgment in their own lives is wrong.

thats hypocritical right there.....

You know, it would have been easier to say "You're right R1 I brought it up not you." Surely you are being deliberately obtuse when you don't get the fact that I opposed abortion before my faith conversion (stated twice already).

Again, abortion is murder of an innocent life. The other scenarios you propose are not. Whether you think I'm a hypocrite or not has no bearing whatsoever on the facts.

She definitely converted to one of the best religions for her.

Yes, I did, thank you.

 

[Fugazi]

You know, they say to start by fixing yourself.......

you don't have to worry about me bringing a kid into this f***ed up world.

 

[tommyjones]

HCG production begins at conception, not implantation.



Again, pregnancy occurs at conception not implantation, and HCG can be detected at such an early stage by a blood test.



You know, it would have been easier to say "You're right R1 I brought it up not you." Surely you are being deliberately obtuse when you don't get the fact that I opposed abortion before my faith conversion (stated twice already).

Again, abortion is murder of an innocent life. The other scenarios you propose are not. Whether you think I'm a hypocrite or not has no bearing whatsoever on the facts.



Yes, I did, thank you.

so what exactly are the moral guidelines that you are using? you claim to be catholic, but make many moral decisions that are not in line with that church.

why is it that these women making a moral decision in their lives is wrong. while you making moral decisions in your life (that are wrong according to your own guidebook) that are apprently ok?


its called hypocritical....

which of the moral "commandments" (not just the big 10) do you choose to ignore in your life?

(funny that you claim yours are 'lesser' offenses)

 

[Radiant1]

I think you missed the post where I said I was against medically induced abortion.

ABORTION does not occur without a PREGNANCY.

A woman is not pregnant until the fertilized egg has implanted and begun to develop into an actual human being.

I really get irked when people try to discourage women from using effective contraceptives by spreading misinformation like this.

Not to confuse the issue even more, but actually a miscarriage is medically termed spontaneous abortion. It is an abortion, but one caused by nature and not induced (chemical or mechanical).

Again, pregnancy occurs at conception when cells begin to generate, not implantation.

If you're concerned about misinformation then please do enlighten women about the differences between birth control i.e. a contraceptive and an abortificient. Thanks.

 

[itsbob]

I do not see anything right in aborting a child. Not a thing. Having said that, I would honestly find it hard to advise my daughter she must fully carry a child that was a product of a rape. However, knowing that rape accounts for something along the lines of 0.3-0.6% of abortions, I would keep my stance against abortion, with an allowance for health of the mother and/or rape.

As far as bringing a child into the world who would even "probably" have problems - who doesn't have problems? A life is a life.

So why do you have a problem giving the right to make this decison to the woman or couple that have to bear the burden of raising this child? You would want to have it, good for you.. but what about the woman that is just as educated as you, just as moral as you that decides no.. That is no life for anyone, and doesn't feel it morally right to bring a person into the world like that?

What gives ANYONE the right to force them to have that child?

If you want to so be it, but don't force someone else to.

 

[Radiant1]

Speaking to Itsbob:

You didn't happen to pick them up from a pro-choice website did you?

Speaking to Vegmom:

Are you in the medical field Vegmom?

 

[itsbob]

Speaking to Itsbob:


Speaking to Vegmom:

No actually I didn't.

I think I picked it up from a research site about the most influential women in history.

The other I picked up from the Washington Post, or the NY Times and it's 100 most influential PEOPLE in American History.

I try not to read propaganda from EITHER side while I'm trying to make a decision about something or someone. You should try it, you might find it enlighteneing.

 

[godsbutterfly]

I find this a hard question to address.

I was initially (before he posted it) on bob's side...in that it isn't really a bad thing to keep people out of this world that will only be a burden on it. I can't say I would do the same for my kid though, selfish as that may be. I think if I was told by a doctor that my soon-to-be kid was PROBABLY going to have a mental illness, I would have to say to have it anyway because there is a chance it COULD be fine. Even if it wasn't, its still your kid and you are responsible for its upbringing...right?

Definitely a tough issue. I'm totally for the choice of abortion/birth, but I don't think under MANY circumstances could I have a kid of my own aborted.

My niece just had a "problem pregnancy" with a lot of complications. She had to be on bed rest a lot and almost went into early labor several times. They ran boodles of tests on her and after every test they told her things like "Good chance the baby will have Down Syndrome...Will be mentally Retarded...We don't see all 4 limbs....The fetus is too small.....You will not make it full term....We believe your son might be born with Tay Sachs....We want to try and hold you off awhile longer but right now your son has stopped growing." She gave birth to a boy who was larger than her first son, has all of his arms and legs, has no birth defects, is mentally sound so far and is completely healthy. They scared the heck out of her and her husband the whole time and I don't think they were just playing mind games. But they went thru all of that and Matthew is a healthy and beautiful little boy. I would have had to have him no matter what the doctors said too.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I think you missed the post where I said I was against medically induced abortion.
ABORTION does not occur without a PREGNANCY.
A woman is not pregnant until the fertilized egg has implanted and begun to develop into an actual human being.
I really get irked when people try to discourage women from using effective contraceptives by spreading misinformation like this.

It is a human life at conception regardless of whether it implants or not. Effective contraceptions will not terminate a life, they will prevent fertilization of an egg by one method or another. Once the sperm and egg join, cell division occurs and it's a life. Stop getting "irked", get informed.

I do not see anything right in aborting a child. Not a thing. Having said that, I would honestly find it hard to advise my daughter she must fully carry a child that was a product of a rape. However, knowing that rape accounts for something along the lines of 0.3-0.6% of abortions, I would keep my stance against abortion, with an allowance for health of the mother and/or rape.
As far as bringing a child into the world who would even "probably" have problems - who doesn't have problems? A life is a life.

I agree with you TP, a life is a life whether by rape, incest or any other method. I know a "rape baby" personally and he used to come to our club in the late "90's when he was 14. He was always a good kid, I had no trouble with him, he was in a popular band, he did NOT know his Dad then nor does he today, his Mom died when he was 15 and yet today he has a great job and is about to get married. Sure there are some bad kids from good parents but my point is that THEY ARE STILL HUMAN LIVES! This stuff about it's not a life until it implants

 

[tommyjones]

I agree with you TP, a life is a life whether by rape, incest or any other method. I know a "rape baby" personally and he used to come to our club in the late "90's when he was 14. He was always a good kid, I had no trouble with him, he was in a popular band, he did NOT know his Dad then nor does he today, his Mom died when he was 15 and yet today he has a great job and is about to get married. Sure there are some bad kids from good parents but my point is that THEY ARE STILL HUMAN LIVES! This stuff about it's not a life until it implants

sounds just like the Matt Dillion character in Somtethng About Mary when he is trying to tell her he works with the mentally challenged. it went something like:
"we got this one kid, forehead so big you could show a movie on it...
well i take him out on his leash to keep him out of his cage, i love that freakin retard...."

 

[ItalianScallion]

So why do you have a problem giving the right to make this decison to the woman or couple that have to bear the burden of raising this child? You would want to have it, good for you.. but what about the woman that is just as educated as you, just as moral as you that decides no.. That is no life for anyone, and doesn't feel it morally right to bring a person into the world like that?
What gives ANYONE the right to force them to have that child?
If you want to so be it, but don't force someone else to.

Bob, why do you say we're forcing anyone to do anything? We're just saying it's wrong. They're free to do whatever they want, I think that's obvious by the abortion stats out today.

 

[Radiant1]

so what exactly are the moral guidelines that you are using? you claim to be catholic, but make many moral decisions that are not in line with that church.

why is it that these women making a moral decision in their lives is wrong. while you making moral decisions in your life (that are wrong according to your own guidebook) that are apprently ok?


its called hypocritical....

which of the moral "commandments" (not just the big 10) do you choose to ignore in your life?

(funny that you claim yours are 'lesser' offenses)

You're the one who brought up religion, not me. I don't base my decisions on abortion by my religion. I do take umbrage to any offense that takes the life of an innocent human being. It's not that hard to understand Tommy.

As I said before, whether you think I'm a hypocrite or not doesn't change the facts.

No actually I didn't.

I think I picked it up from a research site about the most influential women in history.

The other I picked up from the Washington Post, or the NY Times and it's 100 most influential PEOPLE in American History.

I try not to read propaganda from EITHER side while I'm trying to make a decision about something or someone. You should try it, you might find it enlighteneing.

Fair 'nuff, but it makes me giggle if you think the Washington Post or NY Times isn't biased. As I said before, I will get around to reading Margaret Sanger's works in her own words, and when I do I'll be sure to post the full context of the statements quoted by pro-life sites that you whined about for yours, my own, and others edification. Again, thanks for going to the trouble.

 

[ItalianScallion]

sounds just like the Matt Dillion character in Somtethng About Mary when he is trying to tell her he works with the mentally challenged. it went something like:
"we got this one kid, forehead so big you could show a movie on it...
well i take him out on his leash to keep him out of his cage, i love that freakin retard...."

Only you could read something in my post that wasn't even stated. This kid is perfectly healthy, physically and mentally. Are you?

 

[puggymom]

BTW- my youngun' loves pugs (although all she can have right now is a Webkinz pug).

That is probably a good thing. I love my pug so much but he is the reason I will never own another dog again, ever, D-O-N-E! Of course he still has a good 10 years left.

 

[tommyjones]

Only you could read something in my post that wasn't even stated. This kid is perfectly healthy, physically and mentally. Are you?

:youaresoclueless:

 

[PsyOps]

So why do you have a problem giving the right to make this decison to the woman or couple that have to bear the burden of raising this child? You would want to have it, good for you.. but what about the woman that is just as educated as you, just as moral as you that decides no.. That is no life for anyone, and doesn't feel it morally right to bring a person into the world like that?

They (the reason I say they is because it takes two) felt it was morally right to have sex together but not morally right to own up to the results? Well, isn’t that a moral dilemma? You have just described the immorality of it; having sex with no responsibility. And you wrote “That is no life for anyone”. Whose life are you talking about; the mother’s or the child that is about to be butchered? If you don’t feel it’s morally right to bring someone in the world like that, then don’t commit that act that would bring them into this world. How hard is that?

 

[ItalianScallion]

:youaresoclueless:

We'll see who's clueless on judgment day.

 

[tommyjones]

We'll see who's clueless on judgment day.

you can't scare me with your religions verison of the boogie man.

 

[itsbob]

They (the reason I say they is because it takes two) felt it was morally right to have sex together but not morally right to own up to the results? Well, isn’t that a moral dilemma? You have just described the immorality of it; having sex with no responsibility. And you wrote “That is no life for anyone”. Whose life are you talking about; the mother’s or the child that is about to be butchered? If you don’t feel it’s morally right to bring someone in the world like that, then don’t commit that act that would bring them into this world. How hard is that?

that's what you believe, nobody's forcing you or your loved ones to have an abortion OR even use birth control

The law, as it is now, nobody is FORCED to have an abortion.

The way most people in here want it, is everyone is FORCED not to have one. Nobody will have a choice.

Her body, her choice.

 

[Go G-Men]

Why do women have abortions?

REASONS FOR ABORTIONS: COMPILED ESTIMATES

• rape - 0.3 % (0.1-0.6 %)

• incest - 0.03 % (<0.1 %)

• physical life of mother - 0.2 % (0.1-0.3 %)

• physical health of mother - 1.0 % (0.1-3 %)

• fetal health - 0.5 % (0.1-1.0 %)

• mental health of mother - depends on definition

• 
  "personal choice" - 98% (78-99 %)

• too young/immature/not ready for responsibility - (32 %)

• economic - 25% (21-28 %)

• to avoid adjusting life - (16 %)

• mother single or in poor relationship - (12-13 %)

• enough children already - (4-8 %)

So, with a little knowledge that rape, incest, mother's health/life, and baby's health/life account for around 2% of the abortions performed, would you agree that around 98% of the abortions performed should be stopped if those of us who disagree with abortion allow for those less than 2%?

No. Bottom line it is none of your business... If you want to help just go pray with all the other fanatics for those who choose abortion so that they may change their ways...

Here is a stat for ya... about 100% of those against abortion do nothing to help those that seek an abortion other than calling them murderers and trying to scare them into your belief system.

I remember when all a good Christian was supposed to do was pray for those sinners and now that has seemed to change to judging other sinners.... Guess God wasn't doing enough so you all decided to take matters into your own hands.