Planned Parenthood

[puggymom]

Once again, cancer will not grow into a human. The difference between a cancer cell and a human baby is so great that I would think you'd understand it, as a mother.

I am just playing devils advocate with the arguement that the baby is a living organism in a body just as cancer living organism in the body.
I PERSONALLY undertsand it but I will not pretend to be able to definate what kind of life is valuable for someone else.

 

[tommyjones]

Because the baby wasn't in HIS body, it wasn't HIS choice.

She wanted to have the baby apparently, it's her body her choice.

I have faith in the intelligence of MOST women. If given the facts I fully support them to make the right choice.

I don't believe myself to be superior to have to make informed decisions for them.

Give them the facts, if they are over 18 (what the US deems to be an adult and capable of making adult decsions) and decide an abortion is right for them, who am I to force my rights, beliefs, and morals upon them??

Would I ever want to abort a baby? NO, absolutely not. I still wouldn't force my opinion on someone else.

above you wll find the answer to this question, good work bob.

100% agree

 

[This_person]

I know this probably sounds but I wish they could be able to remove the 'embryo-fetus-baby' and place it in some sort ot womb-like incubator until it is fully developed.

I suspect that eventually we will be able to do that. It's getting closer and closer. As stated above, babies are being delivered earlier and earlier and living. A baby is "viable" IMO once the fertilized egg is in the womb, and continues to be until a natural miscarriage or birth.

 

[This_person]

EEERRRRRRR!!!!!!! I do not know how to separate the quote thingys without messing up so bare with me.

I'm still trying to figure out how to do a lot of stuff on here I see others do. To separate out, type the [ then /quote then the ], and that will end the quoting of the last. To start the next time of quoting the other person, type the [ then quote then ], and it will restart quoting the other person.

Me personally, NO!!!! I love my children. BUT YES there are people out there who view a fetus as a alien parasite that is invading thier bodies.

Ah, well, now we're getting back to the basic question of the debate - what is life. This "parasite" was intentionally self inflicted, and is a human. I understand that people see it as a "clump of cells" like cancer, but that may be the education people need that you keep describing - to understand the difference between any other "clump of cells" like a cold virus or cancer, and the "clump of cells" that is a human life in the womb. Maybe if people were taught the difference, they wouldn't accept killing that human as a reasonable option.

As for the killing the pregnant woman and being charged with two muders or even just killing her fetus well again I am PRO CHOICE. By doing that you are taking her choice away.

But, why does that life have the legal status of a life in one instance, but not the other? That's the question. It is a separate, legally protected life in some circumstances, but not this particular one.

Once a baby is born it hs legal rights. Before that it does not as two people cannot have the same legal rights over one body.

But, it's not one body. It's one body inside of another body.

And my point is abortion still would be accessable if RvW was overturned. Heck conservative South Dakota voted down an abortion law because it failed to include the life of the mother.

And, drugs are still available even though they're illegal. People are in this country illegally. People speed in their vehicles. Guns are not allowed near schools, yet people get shot at school. Kids are not allowed to cut class, but do. Murder is not allowed at all, but happens every day anyway.

That they'll still happen is not the point. Federal money paying for it to happen, and the law allowing this murder is the point.

 

[This_person]

It has nothing to do with that but with the woman and the baby. The baby cannot have the same legal rights as the mother.

My point is that babies DO have the same legal rights in some circumstances, but not others.

 

[This_person]

Because the baby wasn't in HIS body, it wasn't HIS choice.

She wanted to have the baby apparently, it's her body her choice.

I have faith in the intelligence of MOST women. If given the facts I fully support them to make the right choice.

I don't believe myself to be superior to have to make informed decisions for them.

Give them the facts, if they are over 18 (what the US deems to be an adult and capable of making adult decsions) and decide an abortion is right for them, who am I to force my rights, beliefs, and morals upon them??

Would I ever want to abort a baby? NO, absolutely not. I still wouldn't force my opinion on someone else.

What about the baby's choice? Again, my point with this is that the baby is considered a separate human being in this case - separate from the mother's life. I fully believe in the intelligence of most people also, but I think any education that lessens the value of a human because it's still connected at the cord is bad education. This devaluation of human life is just plain wrong.

 

[This_person]

I am just playing devils advocate with the arguement that the baby is a living organism in a body just as cancer living organism in the body.
I PERSONALLY undertsand it but I will not pretend to be able to definate what kind of life is valuable for someone else.

But, that's really the whole point - the baby is a valuable life already. It's not a "clump of cells". We wouldn't say this about a one day old, why a minus one day old?

 

[Radiant1]

Careful, your ignorance is showing again.

Denegrating a person that's been dead HOW long to further your argument?

You were doing good until that point, now you've just shown that you haven't done your own research, just parroting what you've been told.

Bob, surely you cannot deny that the woman believed that there were superior and inferior persons of humanity due to their race and advocated eugenics. If I'm so ignorant and you are so enlightened, then by all means quote her in context for us.

I don't suppose you'd ever think to denegrate Hitler now that he's been dead for so long eh?

 

[itsbob]

Bob, surely you cannot deny that the woman believed that there were superior and inferior persons of humanity due to their race and advocated eugenics. If I'm so ignorant and you are so enlightened, then by all means quote her in context for us.

I don't suppose you'd ever think to denegrate Hitler now that he's been dead for so long eh?

Actually what she said is she didn't want women forced into preganancy over and over again, and bing forced to support 15 kids when they couldn't afford to have one or two.

She thought birth control was the answer.

She put her efforts into the ghetto's, where the majority of people were black, as these were the people she felt most needed it, and were the most abused..

AFER explaining this in one of her speeches she exclaimed that she hoped nobody would think she was trying to eradicate the balck race.

Of course all we get from this speech from the anti abortionist crowd is We are trying to eradicate the black race.

 

[Radiant1]

Actually what she said is she didn't want women forced into preganancy over and over again, and bing forced to support 15 kids when they couldn't afford to have one or two.

She thought birth control was the answer.

She put her efforts into the ghetto's, where the majority of people were black, as these were the people she felt most needed it, and were the most abused..

AFER explaining this in one of her speeches she exclaimed that she hoped nobody would think she was trying to eradicate the balck race.

Of course all we get from this speech from the anti abortionist crowd is We are trying to eradicate the black race.

Quotes in context please.

 

[itsbob]

Quotes in context please.

Nope, go read the speech yourself. I've already read it three or four times.

She also tried to share BC benefits with Klanswomen (as in the KKK), as she felt the KKK men were just as abusive to their women as the black men in the ghettos.

AND if she did think one race was superior to another (which I don't hink she did, but I can't read a dead woman's mind) that wouldn't make her a racist. That would have been the conventional wisdom at the time, and would have made her normal.

 

[itsbob]

Did you also know margaret Sanger was against abortion?

 

[Radiant1]

Nope, go read the speech yourself. I've already read it three or four times.

She also tried to share BC benefits with Klanswomen (as in the KKK), as she felt the KKK men were just as abusive to their women as the black men in the ghettos.

What speech? Have you read her other publications, such as "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda" or "Birth Control and Racial Betterment"?

Could you at least give us some links so the ignorant can be enlightened?

AND if she did think one race was superior to another (which I don't hink she did, but I can't read a dead woman's mind) that wouldn't make her a racist. That would have been the conventional wisdom at the time, and would have made her normal.

You can't be serious.

Your attempt at Margaret Sanger apologetics is getting desperate as well as amusing.

 

[Radiant1]

Did you also know margaret Sanger was against abortion?

For the most part she was, but only under certain circumstances, I don't recall that she specified what those circumstances were however.

Do you think she would be appalled that her own PP is churning out murdered babies on a daily basis??

 

[itsbob]

For the most part she was, but only under certain circumstances, I don't recall that she specified what those circumstances were however.

Do you think she would be appalled that her own PP is churning out murdered babies on a daily basis??

Maybe why she quit the and disassociated herself from the same foundation she built??

Her case for birth control took on an emphasis of

eugenics. She believed that the scientific regulation of

reproduction would prevent the social waste of abortion and

infanticide, and would reduce maternal mortality by preventing

pregnancy among women with tubercular, coronary, or renal

disorders. She also believed that birth control would eliminate

the weakening effects of hereditary afflictions, especially those

caused from venereal disease.

She believed in Birth Control as an answer to a lot of society's ills, including unnecessary abortions.


She used the term eugenics as a way of bettering a person's life, making healthier babies for all races, not eradicating a particular race. Lessening infant mortality by ensuring healtheir babies, lessening mother's dying by ensuring they had healthy pregnancies, and didn't spend 90% of their adult life pregnant.

 

[itsbob]

Mothers
Can you afford to have a large family?
Do you want anymore children?
If not, why do you
have them?
DO NOT KILL.
DO NOT TAKE LIFE, BUT PREVENT.
Safe, harmless information can be
obtained of trained Nurses
46 AMBOY STREET
Near Pitkin Ave.---Brooklyn
Tell your friends
and neighbors. All mothers welcome.
A registration fee of
ten cents entitles any mother to this information.

A translated copy of the handbill that was handed out prior to the opening of her first clinic.

Where she was arrested for giving poor people information about Birth Control

 

[Radiant1]

Mothers
Can you afford to have a large family?
Do you want anymore children?
If not, why do you
have them?
DO NOT KILL.
DO NOT TAKE LIFE, BUT PREVENT.
Safe, harmless information can be
obtained of trained Nurses
46 AMBOY STREET
Near Pitkin Ave.---Brooklyn
Tell your friends
and neighbors. All mothers welcome.
A registration fee of
ten cents entitles any mother to this information.

A translated copy of the handbill that was handed out prior to the opening of her first clinic.

Where she was arrested for giving poor people information about Birth Control

Yeah she was arrested for that. I bet you find that as appalling as I do, but hey, it was just the times, no different than the racist views of her day, so we shouldn't be too overly upset about it, right?

I've seen a lot of quotes that put her in a bad light, you say I'm just parroting and they are taken out of context. Now, I can't determine if that's true if you don't give me a link or something can I? One handbill isn't going to cut it with the numerous quotes thrown about by pro-life organizations. In fact, here's a page that has a good many of them. I've no doubt one or two may be taken out of context, but all of them??

You're the one saying they are taken out of context, so I think you should be the one to prove to me that is the case.

 

[tommyjones]

Yeah she was arrested for that. I bet you find that as appalling as I do, but hey, it was just the times, no different than the racist views of her day, so we shouldn't be too overly upset about it, right?

I've seen a lot of quotes that put her in a bad light, you say I'm just parroting and they are taken out of context. Now, I can't determine if that's true if you don't give me a link or something can I? One handbill isn't going to cut it with the numerous quotes thrown about by pro-life organizations. In fact, here's a page that has a good many of them. I've no doubt one or two may be taken out of context, but all of them??

You're the one saying they are taken out of context, so I think you should be the one to prove to me that is the case.

did you even read any of those?
most have two or three words in quotes and the rest of a paragraph that paints the alleged 'context'.


kind of like me putting up the following:

while radiant wasn't in favor of late term abortion, she said "we shouldn't be too overly upset about it"

 

[Radiant1]

did you even read any of those?
most have two or three words in quotes and the rest of a paragraph that paints the alleged 'context'.


kind of like me putting up the following:

Some are like that I agree, and since Bob claims to know the proper context I'm asking him for it.

 

[tommyjones]

Some are like that I agree, and since Bob claims to know the proper context I'm asking him for it.

thats just retarded, you are taking what you know to be sensationalism and asking for more from the other side. why dont you just go read for yourself instead of relying on other's cliff notes?