Plate scanners.......a step too far....?

[itsrequired]

Back on topic, what pops up on Drudge, but this article from Drudge.....

Lawyer: Cop scanner ‘crosses line’ - BostonHerald.com

I wish you would have shown this article earlier, it would have helped me in deciding if I am for or against the device.
















The aclu is against it, therefore I am for it!

 

[glhs837]

I wish you would have shown this article earlier, it would have helped me in deciding if I am for or against the device.


The aclu is against it, therefore I am for it!

Generally, I agree with you, I also agree with the ACLU very rarely.
But in this case, I do. Dont make the mistake of making blanket judgements. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and now and again, the ACLU picks the right side.

 

[itsrequired]

Generally, I agree with you, I also agree with the ACLU very rarely.
But in this case, I do. Dont make the mistake of making blanket judgements. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and now and again, the ACLU picks the right side.

And it's not that I don't see your point, I do. But what I don't think you understand, is that tag numbers are run all the time for a myriad of reasons. The homicide in the article is a perfect example. That's done as a rule now, it's just not automated. That information is stored as long as the tag is in existence. Having a tag at a particular location does not invade anyone's privacy. That alone can not convict anyone of a crime. If the information is used in any other manner, then that becomes a crime by the producer of the information.

 

[glhs837]

Who's the producer of the information by this system? The officer driving? The guy running the database? The maker of the system? Who do I hold liable?

 

[itsrequired]

Who's the producer of the information by this system? The officer driving? The guy running the database? The maker of the system? Who do I hold liable?

Liable for what?

 

[foodcritic]

So, during a recent discussion, it was brought to my attention that the Automated license-plate-recognition systems (ALPRs), which I had thought only checked scanned plates against a list of wanted tags, do much more.

.

I know I am biased here. You have NO expectation of privacy when it come to the running of your license plate. None. They are there specifically for the purpose of identification. In essence those tags belong to the state you reside. They can cancel your registration if you don't follow certain rules etc.

Now about storing that data I don't really know how I feel.

 

[glhs837]

Then think about it some. Does the government really need to make a database of every single car one of the scanner cars encounter? Why does it need this information? "Just in case"? Since I have no expectation of privacy, should I be issued a GPS bracelet I slap on when I leave the house? The thin excuse of the plate can be dispensed with. My point is that the "just in case" nature of this data is what concerns me. The state should have a reason to log data about my whereabouts before doing so. Preemptive assuming that they might need that is the key. It makes my relationship with the state one of mistrust.

Why does building a database of law abiding citizens movements not make people cringe?

I think this is a case of the folks wanting this tool deliberately blinding themselves to the fact that its a step too far.

 

[foodcritic]

Then think about it some. Does the government really need to make a database of every single car one of the scanner cars encounter? Why does it need this information? "Just in case"? Since I have no expectation of privacy, should I be issued a GPS bracelet I slap on when I leave the house? The thin excuse of the plate can be dispensed with. My point is that the "just in case" nature of this data is what concerns me. The state should have a reason to log data about my whereabouts before doing so. Preemptive assuming that they might need that is the key. It makes my relationship with the state one of mistrust.

Why does building a database of law abiding citizens movements not make people cringe?

I think this is a case of the folks wanting this tool deliberately blinding themselves to the fact that its a step too far.

I am not saying that I disagree with you about the storing of the data. I am not aware of the data being stored by tag readers. If it is stored I might agree with you.

 

[glhs837]

See the first post for a link.

 

[Localboy]

I like the LPRS. I wish St Marys had more. Ya'll are real late jumping on this band wagon. The cruiser mounted ones have been out for several years now, and there are alot of stationary LPRS deployed out there to. I think they serve a great purpose. They dont care what sex or race you are. If you, your car, tag, license, insurance, ect. is bad then it sends an alert. Im glad there is a more effective way to get wanted persons, suspended drivers, people with no insurance, ect. ect. off the roads. AAA released a news and safety alert on Sept 29, 2010 that states nearly 1 out of every 5 motorist are uninsured, and the rate is rising. That's just some of the many traffic related benefits. The criminal benefits are great also. If there is a crime in an area they can capture the tags leaving the area. If there is a lookout for a suspect vehicle, stolen vehicle, car jacking, kidnapping, bank robbery, shoplifter (and the list goes on). They can plug in the suspect tag, and if the vehicle goes by it will alert on the tag. I think they are great tools, and everyone has a right to their opinion. I don't post often, but I do love to laugh at the Police/Government hater posts.

 

[glhs837]

I like the LPRS. I wish St Marys had more. Ya'll are real late jumping on this band wagon. The cruiser mounted ones have been out for several years now, and there are alot of stationary LPRS deployed out there to. I think they serve a great purpose. They dont care what sex or race you are. If you, your car, tag, license, insurance, ect. is bad then it sends an alert. Im glad there is a more effective way to get wanted persons, suspended drivers, people with no insurance, ect. ect. off the roads. AAA released a news and safety alert on Sept 29, 2010 that states nearly 1 out of every 5 motorist are uninsured, and the rate is rising. That's just some of the many traffic related benefits. The criminal benefits are great also. If there is a crime in an area they can capture the tags leaving the area. If there is a lookout for a suspect vehicle, stolen vehicle, car jacking, kidnapping, bank robbery, shoplifter (and the list goes on). They can plug in the suspect tag, and if the vehicle goes by it will alert on the tag. I think they are great tools, and everyone has a right to their opinion. I don't post often, but I do love to laugh at the Police/Government hater posts.

You read well, doncha? I am not a police government hater, I am not against using this tech to catch bad guys, as I have said repeatedly. My only argument is that making a database of law abiding citizens movements is not a good thing to do. More like something the STASI would have done.
The presumption that the government at some time in the future might find a reason to go back and see where I was presumes that at some time, I will engage in behavior they want to track.

That presumption, that all citizens, law abiding or not, should be tracked, that's what raises my hackles.

As for late for the bandwagon, I have known about the things since they first hit, in fact, going back to when they first appeared, you might find a post or two by me supporting them. I only recently found out about the database, that's why I started this thread.

 

[EmptyTimCup]

How does an electrician's information get put into with a child molester's information.

are you dense, or just obtuse .....

fine;

from Mikey the Electrician, to Mikey the Child Molesting Electrician

dip#### I was not discussing JOB Titles, but a Status change - misinform, and you go from being Joe Citizen to Joe scumbag

 

[EmptyTimCup]

Normally, the database that contains a law-abiding electricians wouldn't contain child molesters, and vice versa.

see follow up to retards post


I was referring to going from upstanding citizen to scumbag


job titles not withstanding

 

[EmptyTimCup]

Damn, glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this doesn't pass the sniff test. I was beginning to wonder if I was the one off base here, and just reading too much into this.

Just Because You Are Paranoid, Doesn't Mean They Are Not Out To Get You !!!!

 

[EmptyTimCup]

The computerized scanners, known as Automatic License Plate Recognition devices, instantly check for police alerts, warrants, traffic violations and parking tickets, which cops say could be an invaluable tool in thwarting crime. The Executive Office of Public Safety has approved 27 grants totaling $500,000 to buy scanners for state police and 26 local departments. The purchases are on hold while state lawyers develop a policy for the use of a common state database all the scanners would feed.

Some ALPR scanners already are deployed on Massachusetts roads. State police have two. Several cities use them for parking enforcement. Chelsea has four scanner-mounted cruisers.

I believe someone mentioned a combining of databases

EOPS spokesman Terrell Harris said the state wants the scanner information fed into the Public Safety Data Center, where local, state and federal authorities could access it.

“We’re currently working to develop a policy that balances the effective use of this powerful law enforcement tool with the privacy concerns we’re keenly aware of,” Harris said.

The ACLU’s Kade Crockford said the technology, which just allows a faster version of what police do now in running plates, is less of a concern than the state’s plans to store information on average, law-abiding citizens.

“People who aren’t wanted for a crime, all of their information is stored in a database that is shared with another government agency,” Crawford said. “The potential for abuse is very big. We don’t think people who haven’t committed a crime should be tracked by law enforcement.”

NOW you are sharing local gathered data with the FEDS ......

this is bullchit

Silverglate countered, “If you have cameras everywhere, of course you’re going to reduce the crime rate, but you’re not going to have a society worth preserving. To the American people, freedom means something. There is a line to draw in the sand, beyond which you don’t want the government poking its nose. This crosses the line.”

IIRC - data gathered in the UK, with the most surveillance cameras by far (10,000,000 plus) crime rates do not go down, criminals just move into places not covered by cameras

 

[glhs837]

Look, another comprehensive reader.......I have said, (look up two inches, whydoncha?) that using these to catch criminals, as they can do just fine without the capturing of law-abiding citizens data, is okay with me. There are two different aspects of this system. The one the police use to catch bad guys, that's the good part. And that part does NOT require this data fusion thing. Thats the bad part.

And no, not so easy to dismiss me as a guy whos afraid this thing will catch me at something. I get the occasional speeding ticket, which I always pay promptly, thats about it. And there are folks on here who know me in real life who can testify to that.

What is it you think I am ignorant of? Be specific please. Oh, and I am enjoying a frosty beverage right now, some Bee Drool from the Rudy DuckHorrible name, good beer. Dont think I lose sleep about stuff like this.

 

[glhs837]

Bye then. Glad you dropped in, made no valid points, then left

 

[aps45819]

I do know that they don't share it with some master data base as you are suggesting.

FYI - the internet is a master database. Knowing how to access and correlate the information could provide information the previously required a search warrant to obtain

You will probably never even know if they collected your data. ...

wow..... so you think it's not a problem with the government tracking you movements as long as you don't know about it?
Guess you have absolute faith that that information will never be misused by the current administration or any possible future administration

 

[itsrequired]

are you dense, or just obtuse .....

fine;

from Mikey the Electrician, to Mikey the Child Molesting Electrician

dip#### I was not discussing JOB Titles, but a Status change - misinform, and you go from being Joe Citizen to Joe scumbag

The information about Mickey the electrician is already in a data base. The information about Mickey the child molester is already in a data base. Show me where this fantasy scenario has happened?

I think your anti-government rant's have already warped your mind. I know you got a crappy job where you have to work the midnight shift on the weekends, but don't let the fact that you lead a miserable life make you paranoid about those who are here to protect and serve!

 

[itsrequired]

FYI - the internet is a master database. Knowing how to access and correlate the information could provide information the previously required a search warrant to obtain

So then according to you, people are already hacking into these data bases and putting the information out right? I mean, after all the information's already there. Why are we not hearing about it if what you say is true?


probably because you are full of crap.