Plea for help

[sockgirl77]

 

[crabcake]

You are kidding me right? You really do not see the connection with religion and procreation? You also naive if you believe the government and religion are separate entities. The Catholic church alone has more pull in the governement then you think. Go forth and multiply will ring out loudly in all religions. You are trespassing on tricky grounds with that one.

I don't see where any religion has the right to tell the government to whom it will and will not extend public (taxpayer) assistance. This is NOT about religion; it's not about one's beliefs. It's about the burden placed on TAXPAYERS (not tithe-payers) by those who are not accountable to their fellow man to be a productive member of society.

If churches want to step up to the plate and bail out those turned down for public assistance, by all means ... go for it! But as a tax payer, I feel as though I have a right to voice my opinions in how my tax dollars are spent; And I don't believe they should be spent helping people who refuse to help themselves or be accountable for their own choices in life, to include making babies they cannot provide care for. I don't have (nor do I want) a church representing my views in terms of my government or my tax dollars; if I want that, I'll go to church and tell the pastor how to spend my tithe.

Churches can preach all they want about procreating, but then they need to foot the bill for people who choose to use religious as a reason for popping out a brady bunch of kids they can't provide for instead of tapping those of us who do work and provide for our families in a responsible manner.

You can tie the two together all you want, but they are two separate entities. Churches don't make laws and enforce government programs. They picket and protest when they don't like what the government is doing, and their members have the same rights as I do to vote for their representatives.

 

[crabcake]

I've seen quite a few people go on disability that honestly deserved it, had worked long and hard and had a bad stroke of health. Then I've seen others that just get on the disability bandwagon and don't really deserve it. They are healthy, but decide to take the easy way out. It's not only people that have kids that are dragging us down. Hell, I could go on disability if I wanted. My pride keeps me from doing so.

I agree that there are people who truly deserve/need assistance. Shiat happens and people get injured or develop disabilities that are unforeseen. THOSE are the folks who deserve assistance.

Laziness, however, is a different story, and shouldn't be rewarded with a lifetime of unearned hand-outs.

 

[crabcake]

May I offer a possible solution?

Of course ... I'm open to all sorts of suggestions. But I get peeved by one person who comes on and blasts others ideas without offering any of their own.

 

[somdprincess]

here is one


I need some things for my new home. I just moved outa my tent camper and now I need some home furnishings.

1) a nice used 50 inch tv
2) surround sound
3) a bed for my daughters room
4) some curtains
5) oh screw it you get the point I need everthing

Dont we all. I would not mind a 50 inch tv.

 

[Dougstermd]

Dont we all. I would not mind a 50 inch tv.

I just thought while everyone was in the holiday mood I could get some handouts

 

[crabcake]

You are kidding me right? You really do not see the connection with religion and procreation? You also naive if you believe the government and religion are separate entities. The Catholic church alone has more pull in the governement then you think. Go forth and multiply will ring out loudly in all religions. You are trespassing on tricky grounds with that one.

And furthermore, I didn't say I didn't see a connection between religion and procreation. I said that religion and government do not mix in this sense.

I also think that someone supposedly earning six figures should be able to construct sentences in an intelligent manner ... but that's another discussion for another thread and time.

 

[sockgirl77]

Of course ... I'm open to all sorts of suggestions. But I get peeved by one person who comes on and blasts others ideas without offering any of their own.

Pop a Mirena (new safe I.U.D.) when a woman goes on welfare. Require her to show proof that it's in there the entire time she's on welfare. When she is completly off the system, remove the damn thing. Voila!



:runningandducking:

 

[crabcake]

here is one


I need some things for my new home. I just moved outa my tent camper and now I need some home furnishings.

1) a nice used 50 inch tv
2) surround sound
3) a bed for my daughters room
4) some curtains
5) oh screw it you get the point I need everthing

Easy .... put it on your "independence card".

 

[sockgirl77]

Easy .... put it on your "independence card".

That has always cracked me up. Way to be "independent".

 

[somdprincess]

You must've glazed over the part where I said I thought about this during a luncheon today. I apologize that I didn't take the afternoon off work to draft a master plan ready to put into practice tomorrow that fully meets your expectations and answers every question that might pop in your brain. I'll do better next time.

I posted it for discussion which is what we're doing. Do I have all the answers? No. But I have suggestions, which as of yet, you've not offered. YOU put something better together and come back to me when you at least offer a possible solution.

Actually she did. That was to tighten down on the welfare process and requirements.

I agree with both of you on the fact that welfare is not set up for families to make it a career. As embarrassed as I am I have to admit a long time ago I had to use welfare.

Both my husband and I were in a car accident. It nealry killed us. Thank God my children were at daycare as we were on our way to pick them up.

It was a hit and run. Our insurance company back then fought us every step of the way. We had to get assistance for a couple of months.

I would hate to have been subjected to a screening to see if I qualified to be a parent. The process asking for help was bad enough.

 

[crabcake]

Pop a Mirena (new safe I.U.D.) when a woman goes on welfare. Require her to show proof that it's in there the entire time she's on welfare. When she is completly off the system, remove the damn thing. Voila!



:runningandducking:

Nahhh, I say give 'em depo shots. That way, you KNOW it's in there. And they get their check quarterly when they come in for the shot. THAT'S how you make damn sure they're not gonna get knocked up.

I do agree with whoever it was that said (some time ago ... another thread, perhaps?) that people on public assistance should undergo routine drug testing as well in order to get their assistance checks.

And with that, I'm going to bed ... so I can get a good night's sleep and have a productive day at WORK tomorrow so I can continue to provide a warm meal on the table, a nice roof over our heads, and clothes on our backs for my family ... because that's what responsible parents do!

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

You must've glazed over the part where I said I thought about this during a luncheon today. I apologize that I didn't take the afternoon off work to draft a master plan ready to put into practice tomorrow that fully meets your expectations and answers every question that might pop in your brain. I'll do better next time.

I posted it for discussion which is what we're doing. Do I have all the answers? No. But I have suggestions, which as of yet, you've not offered. YOU put something better together and come back to me when you at least offer a possible solution.

Why can't you be civil? I have not been rude to you at all. If you do not want to discuss this then just say so. We can go back forth about this all night and it just won't change a thing.

I did not glaze over anything.

 

[sockgirl77]

Nahhh, I say give 'em depo shots. That way, you KNOW it's in there. And they get their check quarterly when they come in for the shot. THAT'S how you make damn sure they're not gonna get knocked up.

I do agree with whoever it was that said (some time ago ... another thread, perhaps?) that people on public assistance should undergo routine drug testing as well in order to get their assistance checks.

And with that, I'm going to bed ... so I can get a good night's sleep and have a productive day at WORK tomorrow so I can continue to provide a warm meal on the table, a nice roof over our heads, and clothes on our backs for my family ... because that's what responsible parents do!

Good night CC. Sweet dreams. Please do not have anymore nightmares of falling through that hole in your floor.

 

[crabcake]

Actually she did. That was to tighten down on the welfare process and requirements.

I agree with both of you on the fact that welfare is not set up for families to make it a career. As embarrassed as I am I have to admit a long time ago I had to use welfare.

Both my husband and I were in a car accident. It nealry killed us. Thank God my children were at daycare as we were on our way to pick them up.

It was a hit and run. Our insurance company back then fought us every step of the way. We had to get assistance for a couple of months.

I would hate to have been subjected to a screening to see if I qualified to be a parent. The process asking for help was bad enough.

1) "Tighten down on welfare" is NOT a suggestion. That's a generalization. How does she suggest we "tighten down on welfare"? :shrug: She didn't.

2) You should feel no shame in accepting public assistance, in your situation. Your's is not the kind of situation I'm targeting. You had a legitimate need; you weren't being lazy. And you didn't continue it for life as others have made careers of doing. So good on you for using it how it's meant to be used! And I'm sorry to hear about the circumstances that put you in that predicament.

And now, I'm (really) going to bed.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

It IS about people accepting responsibility for their actions. And if they won't do it willingly, you force them to be accountable by removing the crutch they depend on to continue -- welfare. It's not rocket science. It's kind of hard to erase a criminal record, bad credit, poor employment history ... faking a stable residence is probably the least difficult of all the things I've mentioned, but it's still traceable by tax records. But they can't weasel into a system that isn't available to them.

You keep saying that the government is too involved, but all these things are areas the government already has a hand in, in terms of records. It's not hard to do a search of these databases to determine someone's viability to provide a stable environment. Hell, the government spends more time processing passports for people to travel on vacation or for work than they do verifying someone is a viable parent.

You misunderstood me. I meant your solution is not about making people responsible. And that is exactly my point. They will not be able to prove anything. It will be another useless money waste of a program. It just will not work.

 

[crabcake]

Why can't you be civil? I have not been rude to you at all. If you do not want to discuss this then just say so. We can go back forth about this all night and it just won't change a thing.

I did not glaze over anything.

Homeslice, if you think THAT was an example of me being un-civil, you really haven't seen anything and you really haven't been around here long! This is probably one of my more civil debates in the 6+ years I've been a member of this forum.

You make it sounds like I told you to go scrape monkey feces off the zoo grounds for dinner and serve yourself a nice cold glass of STFU to wash it down with. You've got a lot of studying to do.

Like I said before, YOU come back to the table with a suggestion (not generalization) for fixing the problem and we'll discuss it. :shrug:

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

I don't see where any religion has the right to tell the government to whom it will and will not extend public (taxpayer) assistance. This is NOT about religion; it's not about one's beliefs. It's about the burden placed on TAXPAYERS (not tithe-payers) by those who are not accountable to their fellow man to be a productive member of society.

If churches want to step up to the plate and bail out those turned down for public assistance, by all means ... go for it! But as a tax payer, I feel as though I have a right to voice my opinions in how my tax dollars are spent; And I don't believe they should be spent helping people who refuse to help themselves or be accountable for their own choices in life, to include making babies they cannot provide care for. I don't have (nor do I want) a church representing my views in terms of my government or my tax dollars; if I want that, I'll go to church and tell the pastor how to spend my tithe.

Churches can preach all they want about procreating, but then they need to foot the bill for people who choose to use religious as a reason for popping out a brady bunch of kids they can't provide for instead of tapping those of us who do work and provide for our families in a responsible manner.

You can tie the two together all you want, but they are two separate entities. Churches don't make laws and enforce government programs. They picket and protest when they don't like what the government is doing, and their members have the same rights as I do to vote for their representatives.

Why are you missing the point? You are too far off target with religion. You need to go back and read my posts.

And again you have NO idea how much the church money that does go into the government. Lots. The church will protest it because it is in the bible to go forth and multiply. Some are even against birth control and they do have power to control certain things. Even you can see that.

You need to research and see how government and the church work together look at your money. Does it not say in God we trust?

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

Of course ... I'm open to all sorts of suggestions. But I get peeved by one person who comes on and blasts others ideas without offering any of their own.

I am not blasting your ideas. I am just commenting back. If you can't handle it just say so. If you did not read my posts then go back because I did offer my own.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

And furthermore, I didn't say I didn't see a connection between religion and procreation. I said that religion and government do not mix in this sense.

I also think that someone supposedly earning six figures should be able to construct sentences in an intelligent manner ... but that's another discussion for another thread and time.

If you want me to sit here and construct sentences to get my point across I can. I certainly can do that, but since you are not putting forth the effort I figured this was a casual conversation. If you want me to step it up that is fine but then I expect you to do the same.

You have yet to show me how your idea will work. I have not blasted you. I am telling you how I feel. It is not what you want to hear so you crutch out.