Politicizing another funeral...

[Larry Gude]

Buddy...

I think it was appropriate to bring up 'certain' issues perhaps but not to make it a huge hail storm as it turned out to be.

Which issues? How about Kanye's issue:

"We're gathered here today to celebrate this sisters life and this occasion is poisoned by the presence of a man who does not like black people...George 'Cracka' Bush. A man whose weather machine killed Chocolate New Orleans. A man who wants to pass legislation to get slaves on his Texas plantation...A man who sells crack in black elementary schools..."

We get it. They hate Bush.

What remains of Dr. Kings dream is a bastardized shambles. If he is the man who inspired us all then he is ashamed of Lowery, ashamed of Carter, ashamed of the assembly and ashamed of the Clintons.

How do these bastards sit there and insult a man who has had two blacks in major administration positions? How do they insult a man with numerous other people of color working at the highest levels of government?

Carter didn't. Clinton didn't. They talk. Who takes action?

What would Martin do?

Be ashamed.

 

[vraiblonde]

How do these bastards sit there and insult a man who has had two blacks in major administration positions?

According to the Left, those aren't "real" blacks - those are Oreos. Liberal cartoonists can depict our Secretary of State as Aunt Jemima and suffer absolutely no repercussion whatsoever - no condemnation from Jesse Jackson, no outrage from blacks in general...nothing.

But you let someone say they don't think Coretta Scott King is an important person and watch the #### hit the fan.

Racial inequality, indeed.

 

[Penn]

Which issues? How about Kanye's issue:

"We're gathered here today to celebrate this sisters life and this occasion is poisoned by the presence of a man who does not like black people...George 'Cracka' Bush. A man whose weather machine killed Chocolate New Orleans. A man who wants to pass legislation to get slaves on his Texas plantation...A man who sells crack in black elementary schools..."

We get it. They hate Bush.

What remains of Dr. Kings dream is a bastardized shambles. If he is the man who inspired us all then he is ashamed of Lowery, ashamed of Carter, ashamed of the assembly and ashamed of the Clintons.

How do these bastards sit there and insult a man who has had two blacks in major administration positions? How do they insult a man with numerous other people of color working at the highest levels of government?

Carter didn't. Clinton didn't. They talk. Who takes action?

What would Martin do?

Be ashamed.

Vrai quote:

According to the Left, those aren't "real" blacks - those are Oreos. Liberal cartoonists can depict our Secretary of State as Aunt Jemima and suffer absolutely no repercussion whatsoever - no condemnation from Jesse Jackson, no outrage from blacks in general...nothing.

But you let someone say they don't think Coretta Scott King is an important person and watch the #### hit the fan.

Racial inequality, indeed.

These 2 posts bring me back to what Vrai was referring to much earlier:
When we see racial slurs being foisted on honorable people in the current administration, by a set group of individuals or their lackeys, and nobody from that side of the house has the guts to say "That was wrong!", THAT is what sets me against them.

Just because you run with those dogs, it does not mean that you should not have the courage to disagree and admonish them for a disgusting act.

Anybody heard a discouraging word from the democrats yet? :shrug:

 

[Ken King]

I don't know Ken, although I like the argument something is of a miss. Are there any laws to back this sort of thing up? Even a moral code that is written, something to go by?

Sure there is law, churches and other charitable organizations receive their exemption under 501(c)(3) of the tax code. In other portions of the code their political activity is limited with various prohibitions. Most relate directly to campaigns and elections activities to include making statements of support or non-support for any particular candidate and donations.

A statement made in a church, by the pastor saying, "The war is bad and something Americans should not support. So I ask you, my congregation, to not put those who voted for this back in office." could be a violation under the laws, depending how aggressive the prosecution decided to go.

I mean, which do you really think puts more into the community for less, your church or your money wasting government?

That isn't the issue, the issue is should those exempt from contributing to the tax scheme under law, that enjoy an exempt status, be required to refrain from political activity as the law intends. And as we are in an election year a lot of what is said could be subject to review. During the last election cycle the IRS reviewed information alleging improper political intervention by more than 100 charities, churches and other tax-exempt groups.

 

[BuddyLee]

Which issues?

And I quote again...

As for me, I think adding politics to the funeral was alright. However, some of the politics mentioned had very little to do with Mrs. King and civil rights IMO and could have been left out.

If said issues dealt with what Mrs. King herself dealt with in her lifetime I would be fine with that. However, I think other NAACP type issues were dealt with in an inaccordant nature.

 

[Pete]

Money, corruption, inflamation, aggitation, illegitimate children, falsehoods and lies? Hell, that describes most politicians. Actually there are several Joe Shmoe's I know with those characteristics.

Joe Shmoe's don't hold themselves up as "Black leaders"

 

[camily]

Joe Shmoe's don't hold themselves up as "Black leaders"

Very true, but my point was that they are by no means the only political/religious leaders to be caught in a scandal. Also, remember that only a small percentage get caught.

 

[BuddyLee]

That isn't the issue, the issue is should those exempt from contributing to the tax scheme under law, that enjoy an exempt status, be required to refrain from political activity as the law intends. And as we are in an election year a lot of what is said could be subject to review. During the last election cycle the IRS reviewed information alleging improper political intervention by more than 100 charities, churches and other tax-exempt groups.

I suppose what I was hitting the glass ceiling with was that church groups and others like them do a ton of work for the local community, for that they SHOULD be tax exempt. Secondly, political figures and parties oftentimes 'use' religion as they see fit. I think the same SHOULD be said for religions using politics to gain their 'wants'.

Politics is a funny thing though; it follows one everywhere. If you're ever in a group there is bound to be politics, it is inescapable.

In my opinion, what was said at the rally...oh I mean funeral was blatantly absurd and un-called for. However, I do believe that if some were to bring up various political issues that Mrs. King worked on in her lifetime that that would be entirely OK. It's too bad there was a very long stretch made.

 

[Pete]

Very true, but my point was that they are by no means the only political/religious leaders to be caught in a scandal. Also, remember that only a small percentage get caught.

Very true right back at you, however the random politcian who is dirty does not hinder race relations, leaders of that group who are dirty do.

 

[camily]

Very true right back at you, however the random politcian who is dirty does not hinder race relations, leaders of that group who are dirty do.

Very true right back at you too.

 

[Pete]

I suppose what I was hitting the glass ceiling with was that church groups and others like them do a ton of work for the local community, for that they SHOULD be tax exempt. Secondly, political figures and parties oftentimes 'use' religion as they see fit. I think the same SHOULD be said for religions using politics to gain their 'wants'.

Politics is a funny thing though; it follows one everywhere. If you're ever in a group there is bound to be politics, it is inescapable.

In my opinion, what was said at the rally...oh I mean funeral was blatantly absurd and un-called for. However, I do believe that if some were to bring up various political issues that Mrs. King worked on in her lifetime that that would be entirely OK. It's too bad there was a very long stretch made.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. The rule of law for years and years is that churches do good works thus are exempt form taxation. Engaging in political activities, or activism is NOT good works. Your whole argument that "Politicians use religion" is totally irrelavent. Politicians also use memberships in groups, past employment, and other affiliations to draw voters. Another thing is a politician expressing his/her faith is nothing more than describing a fact about themselves. A pastor/reverend/bishop endorsing a political candidate can in no way construed be equal to a candidate saying I am a vote for me I am Catholic.

 

[BuddyLee]

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. The rule of law for years and years is that churches do good works thus are exempt form taxation. Engaging in political activities, or activism is NOT good works. Your whole argument that "Politicians use religion" is totally irrelavent. Politicians also use memberships in groups, past employment, and other affiliations to draw voters. Another thing is a politician expressing his/her faith is nothing more than describing a fact about themselves. A pastor/reverend/bishop endorsing a political candidate can in no way construed be equal to a candidate saying I am a vote for me I am Catholic.

In comes the problem, how do you rid politics in your local church? As one in a community you are trying to strengthen that community. You want your beliefs to be imposed on that community, however much force you put behind that. Should your pastor just preach from the bible and say nothing more of the follies of life and community? The very bible itself is political in nature, how do you get past that, all of that?

 

[ylexot]

The rule of law for years and years is that churches do good works thus are exempt form taxation.

No, they are tax exempt simply for being a religious entity. It has nothing to do with good works since good works are not required.

 

[ylexot]

In comes the problem, how do you rid politics in your local church? As one in a community you are trying to strengthen that community. You want your beliefs to be imposed on that community, however much force you put behind that. Should your pastor just preach from the bible and say nothing more of the follies of life and community? The very bible itself is political in nature, how do you get past that, all of that?

I can't remember my pastor ever mentioning politics. I also don't remember the bible being political...

I'd say if a church gets caught spouting politics, it loses it's tax exempt status.

 

[Pete]

In comes the problem, how do you rid politics in your local church? As one in a community you are trying to strengthen that community. You want your beliefs to be imposed on that community, however much force you put behind that. Should your pastor just preach from the bible and say nothing more of the follies of life and community? The very bible itself is political in nature, how do you get past that, all of that?

WTF are you talking about? Are you being a dumb ass on purpose? "Beliefs to be imposed on that community"? The Bible being political? I don't recall you posting about renegade Episcopalians busting down your door and imposing their will on you.

To answer your question yes, the pastor needs to maintain neutrality as far as partisan politics go. Pastors are free to preach morals as they see fit IE: Abortion is an abomination" but prohibited from saying "Abortion is an abomination and so are the Democrats who support abortion, vote for Republicans."

Churches should NOT be involved in partisan politics.

 

[BuddyLee]

I can't remember my pastor ever mentioning politics. I also don't remember the bible being political...

I'd say if a church gets caught spouting politics, it loses it's tax exempt status.

1. Not every pastor is your pastor.

2. It seems to me that most who attend church have more anchored beliefs. They participate more in civil society, voting, politics; these are linked.

3. How is the bible not political? You could define politics as the authoritative designation of values for a society. The bible contains story after story of how one should act, does this not carry into society as a whole? If we are taught to follow the bible, aren't our own morals and beliefs derived (at least partly) from that very book. Isn't our community and society in which we live based on those beliefs? The bible offers many guidelines, some more controversial than others; this is where some may differ in opinion. Which values do we want to suggest for our community and society? What is the greatest good for us? This all boils down to politics as I see it.

 

[BuddyLee]

WTF are you talking about? Are you being a dumb ass on purpose? "Beliefs to be imposed on that community"? The Bible being political? I don't recall you posting about renegade Episcopalians busting down your door and imposing their will on you.

You don't like thinking about tough questions?

Churches should NOT be involved in partisan politics.

Maybe we're getting somewhere now. Being that we cannot escape politics in a group setting a church should try not to delve into the partisan. I can buy that.

 

[Pete]

1. Not every pastor is your pastor.

2. It seems to me that most who attend church have more anchored beliefs. They participate more in civil society, voting, politics; these are linked.

3. How is the bible not political? You could define politics as the authoritative designation of values for a society. The bible contains story after story of how one should act, does this not carry into society as a whole? If we are taught to follow the bible, aren't our own morals and beliefs derived (at least partly) from that very book. Isn't our community and society in which we live based on those beliefs? The bible offers many guidelines, some more controversial than others; this is where some may differ in opinion. Which values do we want to suggest for our community and society? What is the greatest good for us? This all boils down to politics as I see it.

politics
3 entries found for politics.
To select an entry, click on it.
politicspower politicsidentity politics

Main Entry: pol·i·tics
Pronunciation: 'pä-l&-"tiks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Etymology: Greek politika, from neuter plural of politikos political
1 a : the art or science of government b : the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental policy c : the art or science concerned with winning and holding control over a government

Right here, it is simple if you uncloud your mind. Churches who actively participate in activities which are concerned with the winning or holding control of the government OR are actively engaged in guiding or influencing governmental policy are NOT within the bounds of their 501C exemption.

That is NOT to say churches cannot preach or endorse certain social issues. Abortion, abstinance, drug abuse, and so on.

 

[BuddyLee]

WTF are you talking about? Are you being a dumb ass on purpose? "Beliefs to be imposed on that community"? The Bible being political? I don't recall you posting about renegade Episcopalians busting down your door and imposing their will on you.

P.S. I was making an assertion about human nature. If you had your way, you wouldn't want it your way?

 

[Pete]

You don't like thinking about tough questions?

Maybe we're getting somewhere now. Being that we cannot escape politics in a group setting a church should try not to delve into the partisan. I can buy that.

I don't mind "tough" questions, I do not like meandering, meaningless, baseless or incoherent questions, no.

You can easily escape politics in a religious setting.