Poll: Has anything said on these boards....

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

If they want my vote I want solid answers and not ambiguous ones. I don't know what I'm getting with Obama and neither do you. I want a definite plan. Both are United States Senators and are privy to most of the information you speak of anyway. If he can't even come up with a plan now, that's saying something. If he's waiting for 'facts' to make his plan, I think that's a cop-out.


He should have a plan if he is going to be in office. It's not about appeasing the public, that is what they deserve! I want a leader who has a plan now and also looks at the facts while in office.

You want someone who tells you what you want to hear I want someone who is willing to wait and see what he can do with the plate of sheeyot he is being handed by GWB :shrug:

I don't have to assume. You confirm that in most of your posts.

Hardly, but you're entitled to an opinion.

 

[BuddyLee]

You want someone who tells you what you want to hear I want someone who is willing to wait and see what he can do with the plate of sheeyot he is being handed by GWB :shrug:

If I wanted that I'd be all over Obama's junk. You can't wait if you're President of the United States. You must have a plan already and must react quickly and boldly.

Hardly, but you're entitled to an opinion.

 

[kom526]

You're actually using a chain email as an example of facts?
Do tell...how exactly is it determined how much is spent on illegals if they are flying under the radar? If they are using another identity, it doesn't quite just "show up" that they're illegal when they go to do things, like get hospital care.
I'm not buying that one.

Tell CNN.com then, links are provided.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

If I wanted that I'd be all over Obama's junk. You can't wait if you're President of the United States. You must have a plan already and must react quickly and boldly.

A vague plan, sure, and I don't doubt that Obama has one, but he is also doing the logical thing (IMO) of waiting to see what cards he's playing with before he places his bet.

 

[BuddyLee]

A vague plan, sure, and I don't doubt that Obama has one, but he is also doing the logical thing (IMO) of waiting to see what cards he's playing with before he places his bet.

He's running for the highest position in the world and he doesn't know what's being dealt yet?

Try again.

 

[kom526]

Reactionary leadership is always something I look for when I'm voting for my president.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

He's running for the highest position in the world and he doesn't know what's being dealt yet?

Try again.

You DO realize that the president is privey to certain information that the general public is not, correct? This also holds true for him being privey to information that even some members of congress do not have access to.
So no, he doesn't know the entire hand he is being dealt yet, nor does McCain.

Tell CNN.com then, links are provided.

Did where you originally got those numbers have the citations with them? I looked up a site that did and some of the sources are fairly questionable. :shrug: Either way, they are estimates because nobody can give an exact number on what illegals cost the US...it just can't happen.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

Reactionary leadership is always something I look for when I'm voting for my president.

Care to expand on your statement?

 

[BuddyLee]

You DO realize that the president is privey to certain information that the general public is not, correct? This also holds true for him being privey to information that even some members of congress do not have access to.
So no, he doesn't know the entire hand he is being dealt yet, nor does McCain.

They know what they're getting into. Don't stoop down to some of my 8th graders level.

Voting solely on that is obtuse and you know it.

 

[BuddyLee]

Care to expand on your statement?

I want to hear some expanding from you, sir. Others have catered to you, now show me what you think.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

They know what they're getting into. Don't stoop down to some of my 8th graders level.

Voting solely on that is obtuse and you know it.

Don't put words in my mouth
I didn't say solely, I just said that was one of my reasons for liking Obama more than McCain

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

I want to hear some expanding from you, sir. Others have catered to you, now show me what you think.

I thought I already did
Maybe you missed it

Think about what? :shrug:

 

[BuddyLee]

Don't put words in my mouth
I didn't say solely, I just said that was one of my reasons for liking Obama more than McCain

I didn't. Out of all the issues I noted that is the only one you had a problem with. Therefore, if you have little problem with the issues and the way I presented them and somewhat of an issue with their plans then I'm betting you're voting solely for that.

That's another reason I asked for what you thought about in my next post.

I thought I already did
Maybe you missed it

Think about what? :shrug:

No, you're just arguing a moot point. You haven't told me what you think about the issues, where you stand, and why you support Obama more.

 

[kom526]

I didn't. Out of all the issues I noted that is the only one you had a problem with. Therefore, if you have little problem with the issues and the way I presented them and somewhat of an issue with their plans then I'm betting you're voting solely for that.

That's another reason I asked for what you thought about in my next post.

No, you're just arguing a moot point. You haven't told me what you think about the issues, where you stand, and why you support Obama more.

McCain is a war mongering fool who will "fight until we have won" a war that has no ending or victory. That equates to a never-ending war, which I for one do not want. I don't even want 4 more years of this damn war, and that is a minimal amount, IMO, if McCain is elected.

Well, first point that needs to be addressed, I am neither Dem nor Rep. I am Independent. I was not even planning to vote, but now I believe I will register simply to cancel out a single vote for McCain.Very adult line of thinking here.


Unfortunately, I don't have the time I would like to find links and cite facts, nor really go into depth over why I would vote Obama over McCain.
Thus, I will simply post my most recent counter as to why Obama would be better for the nation's economic concerns. Though Obama may be against something such as offshore drilling for oil (just a quick example), the economic benefits of actually drilling (in McCain's view) would be greatly outweighed by the continued wasted money in Iraq and Afganistan (sp?).

Not many POWs come home without some sort of mental problems/anguish from their experiences overseas.

Do you think John McCain has issues?

We have to get out of this major national debt somehow

A good leader would do more than one thing to reduce debt.
Taxes are just one way.

Well just call me unpatriotic.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

I didn't. Out of all the issues I noted that is the only one you had a problem with. Therefore, if you have little problem with the issues and the way I presented them and somewhat of an issue with their plans then I'm betting you're voting solely for that.

That's another reason I asked for what you thought about in my next post.

No, you're just arguing a moot point. You haven't told me what you think about the issues, where you stand, and why you support Obama more.

Fair enough. My opinions are in red below.

Alright...deep breath.

Abortion

I agree with Obama. Pro-choicer. Pro-death all the way for me.
agreed.
Death Penalty

I agree with McCain. Same as above.
agreed.

Education

Push. Both have a lot of promises that they'll never meet.
agreed, education is probably one of the biggest "all talk" aspects of electoral issues IMO. Nobody usually does even a fraction of what they claimed they would
Gay Marriage

I agree with both, perhaps Obama by a sliver. Gay's should be able to join in at least a union in my book.
agreed.

Global Warming

I agree with McCain here. Drill! Go for more Nuclear energy. Obama's plan will not work and will cost the taxpayers...again. That auction will never work.
I think you mean "energy" here, not global warming being the issue...though I could be wrong. I'd say that its a push for me here because Obama's plan has been skewed when described by some sources, so I'm not particularly opposed to either person's ideas here.


Gun Control

McCain.
Push SIMPLY because I don't feel there is going to be any major impact in either direction no matter who is elected, could be wrong though

Health Care

Definitely McCain. I don't want the government in my business. Plus, more money in your pocket.

I like Obama's health care plan. McCain has a good idea but I don't forsee it actually developing. His idea is to increase competition between Health Care carriers. Good idea, dont think it will help as much as Obama's plan to make a nationally available healthcare plan which would be beneficial for self-employed, small businesses, and folks who simply can't afford other insurance (say, if it isn't offered from their workplace). Obviously the negative that is most troublesome is how will this exclude illegals. I don't want to pay for their healthcare with my tax dollars.



So, if you're poor and cannot afford coverage you're penalized. Vicious circle?


Immigration

McCain supports a stronger policy.
McCain has a stronger policy for immigration but so did Bush, and we see how that's working out

Iran

Good. This guy doesn't deserve any high-level discourse.


So, which is it? This is another reason I'm not leaning for Obama, the uncertainty of it all. I don't even think he knows yet.

Like stated, I am all for waiting to get higher intel before making a decision on a global scale like this. I don't need a definite answer yet.

Iraq

That's the way it should be, stay the course and don't back down from your obligations and responsibilities. He didn't like the way the war was handled so he wasn't totally gung-ho about the effort at first.

Again with the unknown. Is he getting the troops out by 2009...months later than that like he said previously...or will he wait until he has ambiguous 'facts' when he lands in office. At least with McCain I know what I'm getting.

See above response

Social Security

We should only need social security for the handicapped, disabled and for children who have lost a parent. Older people these days need to become more wiser with their money. You should never rely on a government (even the U.S. government) for your egg-nest.

I disagree. Why should those groups get SS and not me? I earned government help with my continued employment (assuming it continues ). Sure, I would love to be able to save that money per paycheck and invest it how I want for the future...but I'd rather have a (semi)sure thing to fall back on when I'm old.

Obama would of course raise taxes.
do you have proof of this. I don't doubt it, just wondering.

Stem Cell Research

Push. They both have the same policy basically.
I'm not aware I've even heard major discussion on this issue.

Taxes

No new taxes! Woo hoo!

Sounds like the same ole' record played every election cycle. Raise taxes on the rich! Give it to the poor and middle class! Yet, that never happens when elected. The middle-class makes up most of the pie and they'll be paying the most taxes.

Neither candidate can convince me they will cut taxes (nor not make new ones) until I see it happen.
I have no problems with taxing the wealthier more, either. Not dramatically larger percentage, but at least slightly more.

Where they stand: Obama, McCain on the issues - Boston.com

 

[BuddyLee]

I disagree. Why should those groups get SS and not me? I earned government help with my continued employment (assuming it continues ). Sure, I would love to be able to save that money per paycheck and invest it how I want for the future...but I'd rather have a (semi)sure thing to fall back on when I'm old.

My point was...

...why should you have to pay SS at all? You should keep that money in your paycheck. You earned it.

do you have proof of this. I don't doubt it, just wondering.

He's a Democrat, I don't need any more proof than that. Find me the last Democrat that didn't raise taxes, I'm waiting.

If you all the sudden became wealthy you'd have a problem with it. Especially seeing how much they're taking out of your pay check. Obama wants to increase that, which is stupid and unfair.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

My point was...

...why should you have to pay SS at all? You should keep that money in your paycheck. You earned it.

I understood that. I commented towards that. :shrug: I just don't fully agree. SS is a decent system if properly maintained

He's a Democrat, I don't need any more proof than that. Find me the last Democrat that didn't raise taxes, I'm waiting.

If you all the sudden became wealthy you'd have a problem with it. Especially seeing how much they're taking out of your pay check. Obama wants to increase that, which is stupid and unfair.

Thats pure
You can't name any recent president that hasn't had to raise taxes. The "democrats raise taxes" is a completely stupid arguement.

 

[BuddyLee]

I understood that. I commented towards that. :shrug: I just don't fully agree. SS is a decent system if properly maintained

SS hasn't been a decent system for decades. That's why we are where we are now.

Thats pure
You can't name any recent president that hasn't had to raise taxes. The "democrats raise taxes" is a completely stupid arguement.

Well, that just shows how much you know. Johnny, do yourself a favor and do some research on this. Really bro.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

SS hasn't been a decent system for decades. That's why we are where we are now.

Agreed, but you can't just stop it now

Well, that just shows how much you know. Johnny, do yourself a favor and do some research on this. Really bro.

Are you kidding me? We're talking presidents here. Name me the most recent to lower taxes WITHOUT other negative impacts (such as, increased national debt).
Good luck

 

[BuddyLee]

Agreed, but you can't just stop it now

Why not?

Are you kidding me? We're talking presidents here. Name me the most recent to lower taxes WITHOUT other negative impacts (such as, increased national debt).
Good luck

Yes, I am kidding you. Wasn't that a knee-slapper?

You could look at Bush except he's increased the national debt. Therefore, he's not a true fiscal conservative in my book and I don't like him for that.

Bush's father cut taxes. Reagan cut taxes. The only guy to decrease the national debt significantly was Clinton who had the great internet economic boom to help him.