Proudly Gay and Ordained?

[dems4me]

People often say that the times were different in the Old Testament and that what it says there doesn't apply anymore (some say because Jesus came and changed all that). I've been taught that that's not how it works - God is timeless and so are His words and rules.

But I know people's opinions about these things differ. I'm with 2A 100% on this one. The Bible says, "Judge not lest you yourself be judged," so I'm not going to even attempt to deal with who's going to he11 and who's going to heaven. I know I'm saved, and that's that.

ummm... I think that was my point...

 

[2ndAmendment]

Point taken, but isn't it immoral to commit adultery? Why are those people exempt?

They aren't if you bothered to read the quote. But here it is again for those with comprehension problems.

1 Corinthians 6:8-10

<sup id="en-NASB-28476">8</sup>On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. <sup id="en-NASB-28477">9</sup>Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

<sup id="en-NASB-28478">10</sup>nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I don't think people think it's exempt, least of all, Christians. Of course they believe it's wrong.

One of the most worn-out arguments is the discussion that somehow, homosexuality is singled out amongst Christians as somehow being worse than everything else - that with all the sin out there, it gets a worse rap than anything else.

Bull.

It gets *attention* because there are so many trying to put across the idea that no matter what the Bible teaches or what the church says, that it's just plain ok. And see, no one is saying that hey, if you're a good person, a nice guy, help people out BUT you do commit adultery, then that makes it all ok. No one's saying that. And no one is saying that homosexuality is some far terrible sin that trumps all others.

The issue only exists at all because there's a side claiming that it's ok, and another saying it isn't. It's not being "picked on". The issue exists because some *support* it.

Where are the pro-adultery marchers? Where's the thread on saying adultery is ok, as long as you're a good person, and that you have several friends that are habitual adulterers, but, you don't have a problem with that? It's simple. People know that that is wrong. It doesn't get "picked on" because people aren't defending it.

Well said.

 

[2ndAmendment]

ummm... I think that was my point...

It sure does not come across that way. Your posts come across as it is OK to sin. It is OK to be a homosexual. If that is not what you meant, then you need to be much clearer.

Matthew 5:13-19
<sup id="en-NASB-23248">13</sup>"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. <sup id="en-NASB-23249">14</sup>"You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;

<sup id="en-NASB-23250">15</sup>nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.

<sup id="en-NASB-23251">16</sup>"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

<sup id="en-NASB-23252">17</sup>"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

<sup id="en-NASB-23253">18</sup>"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

<sup id="en-NASB-23254">19</sup>"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

<sup id="en-NASB-23255">20</sup>"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[dems4me]

It sure does not come across that way. Your posts come across as it is OK to sin. It is OK to be a homosexual. If that is not what you meant, then you need to be much clearer.

2A, all you do is focus on a few bits of scripture... the Bible has loads and loads and loads more information than what you keep regurgitating from it. If that's all you want to focus on than, so be it... but tell me this... how does it feel to not be a sinner yourself :shrug: How does it feel to CONSTANTLY point out the sins of other people... is there a log in your eye YET??? If not, I think the seed is there and starting to grow. Does Jesus's blood at the cross mean anything to you? Do you NOT believe that Jesus died for our sins?

Ohhh... I give up. I've got to many other things on my plate than to argue with someone that comes across as above others. We all are sinners and should be humble and focus on our own sins instead of damming someone to al life of hell because THEY TOO are sinners. The Bible is structure in a way so that everyone has SINS... We are all born with a sinful nature. Why don't you ostercize other people for their various sins... why does everyone focus on gays? It's because they are different than "the norm" and thereby the only weapon they have to make themselves feel better is the Bible. The Bible IS NOT to be used as a weapon of hatred. At least that's not what I use my Bible for.

 

[dems4me]

Green "I love it when you get riled up "





Thanks!! But my blood pressure/internist doesn't...

 

[2ndAmendment]

2A, all you do is focus on a few bits of scripture... the Bible has loads and loads and loads more information than what you keep regurgitating from it. If that's all you want to focus on than, so be it... but tell me this... how does it feel to not be a sinner yourself :shrug: How does it feel to CONSTANTLY point out the sins of other people... is there a log in your eye YET??? If not, I think the seed is there and starting to grow. Does Jesus' blood at the cross mean anything to you? Do you NOT believe that Jesus died for our sins?

Ohhh... I give up. I've got to many other things on my plate than to argue with someone that comes across as above others. We all are sinners and should be humble and focus on our own sins instead of damming someone to a life of hell because THEY TOO are sinners. The Bible is structure in a way so that everyone has SINS... We are all born with a sinful nature. Why don't you ostracize other people for their various sins... why does everyone focus on gays? It's because they are different than "the norm" and thereby the only weapon they have to make themselves feel better is the Bible. The Bible IS NOT to be used as a weapon of hatred. At least that's not what I use my Bible for.

Dems, I have read the Bible cover to cover in several different translations. Have you? You go on about your opinions and post nothing of scripture. I post the scripture that is applicable to the subject. The subjects usually revolve around just a few that get brought up from time to time. Those verses that apply haven't changed.

Does Jesus' sacrifice on the cross mean anything to me? Obviously yes. I take the Christian life very seriously. It is by God's sacrifice that I and everyone that accepts His saving grace and does the will of the Father are saved. His resurrection is my promise of eternal life. That is the reason I do not want to turn a blind eye to sin but proclaim the Truth. I do it not to condemn but in the hope that the Holy Spirit will convict and turn to repentance those that do not have Him.

Where have I ever said I was not a sinner? Where? Show it to me. I do sin still and every time I realize I have, I ask forgiveness and I do my best through the power of the Holy Spirit not to sin.

Where have I ever ostracized anyone? Where? Show it to me. It is a Christian's duty to proclaim the word of God, the Truth, not watered down and not politically correct. If a Christian does not do that, then they are not loving others.

What is better? Is it better to tell someone that what they are doing is against God's word and they are running the risk of eternal damnation and, hopefully, win them to Christ? Or is it better to not say anything and tacitly approve their sin and let them die and go to hell? What is better?

The point is that homosexuals and adulterers and thieves and anyone who does any sin that continue to practice those sins with out recognizing then as sin are on the road to condemnation. It does not mean that they cannot repent and be saved. An active homosexual, murderer, adulterer, or whatever has not repented or they would recognize their action as sin and turn from it.

Those that teach it is OK to sin will be called least in heaven even if they are saved, or did you conveniently not read that part.

 

[dems4me]

Dems, I have read the Bible cover to cover in several different translations. Have you? You go on about your opinions and post nothing of scripture. I post the scripture that is applicable to the subject. The subjects usually revolve around just a few that get brought up from time to time. Those verses that apply haven't changed.

Does Jesus' sacrifice on the cross mean anything to me? Obviously yes. I take the Christian life very seriously. It is by God's sacrifice that I and everyone that accepts His saving grace and does the will of the Father are saved. His resurrection is my promise of eternal life. That is the reason I do not want to turn a blind eye to sin but proclaim the Truth. I do it not to condemn but in the hope that the Holy Spirit will convict and turn to repentance those that do not have Him.

Where have I ever said I was not a sinner? Where? Show it to me. I do sin still and every time I realize I have, I ask forgiveness and I do my best through the power of the Holy Spirit not to sin.

Where have I ever ostracized anyone? Where? Show it to me. It is a Christian's duty to proclaim the word of God, the Truth, not watered down and not politically correct. If a Christian does not do that, then they are not loving others.

What is better? Is it better to tell someone that what they are doing is against God's word and they are running the risk of eternal damnation and, hopefully, win them to Christ? Or is it better to not say anything and tacitly approve their sin and let them die and go to hell? What is better?

The point is that homosexuals and adulterers and thieves and anyone who does any sin that continue to practice those sins with out recognizing then as sin are on the road to condemnation. It does not mean that they cannot repent and be saved. An active homosexual, murderer, adulterer, or whatever has not repented or they would recognize their action as sin and turn from it.

Those that teach it is OK to sin will be called least in heaven even if they are saved, or did you conveniently not read that part.

2A - No need for sarcasim. You are the one reading the Bible ala-cart style and not comparing it in light of other scripture. You are staying on a page or two instead of the hundreds of pages written in it.

For example, do you have anything against Crippled people, disabbled people or handicapped people? Do you feel they should be able to worship the Lord in church or stay out in the parking lot? If you were to read the Bible verbatim as you like to do... then in Leveticus it states that crippled people are not to defile the house of the Lord and attend church - but yet later in the New Testiment... Jesus is healing crippled people. If you take things verbatium and only read things at a non-contextual view, explain that one? Did Jesus say anything about hatting gay people? I think not.

Jesus taught all about love and if two gay people love eachother... I feel NOT being able to love is one of the biggest sins you can commit (figuratively speaking)... If someone is in love with another person than by all means, I don't give a rats behind if they are same sex or not. Also, 2A I just don't think the Lord creates these people just to be tortured all their lives by society and was born to resist the urge to love someone. JMO

 

[Chasey_Lane]

The point is that homosexuals and adulterers and thieves and anyone who does any sin that continue to practice those sins with out recognizing then as sin are on the road to condemnation. It does not mean that they cannot repent and be saved. An active homosexual, murderer, adulterer, or whatever has not repented or they would recognize their action as sin and turn from it.

I've always understood that if you accept God into your heart, you are "saved."

 

[FastCarsSpeed]

I've always understood that if you accept God into your heart, you are "saved."

Yes Maam...


What I wanna know is why is it anyones business what sex preference a person has? If a person wants to worship the lord then that is fine no matter what religion or sexual preference in my book. But I do get tired of these stupid openly gay statements. Why dont all the busy bodies start worrying about their own damn lives then get into other peoples business. Sexual Preference and sex in general is not something that should be brought up in church anyway. What the hell does if have to do with worshiping your lord? I have met many homosexual people that are a whole lot of a better person than I am.

What happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom.

 

[dems4me]

Yes Maam...


What I wanna know is why is it anyones business what sex preference a person has? If a person wants to worship the lord then that is fine no matter what religion or sexual preference in my book. But I do get tired of these stupid openly gay statements. Why dont all the busy bodies start worrying about their own damn lives then get into other peoples business. Sexual Preference and sex in general is not something that should be brought up in church anyway. What the hell does if have to do with worshiping your lord? I have met many homosexual people that are a whole lot of a better person than I am.

What happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom.

I agree. What about all the people that steal :shrug: heck that's a commandment at that!!! Sadly I think if you asked alot of these closed minded individuals - or zealout Christians who they'd rather sit next to on a bus... a gay person, a theif, a murderer, etc... sometimes I think, the gay person would be the oddman out. They are peaceful law abidding citizens just the same as you or I (if anything more so... I don't recall hearing about a bunch of gay people robbing banks, murdering people, breaking in homes, etc... if so...Heaven's to Betsy it'd really be a pack mentality against them. Even african americans were denied their civil rights for a long time... and they weren't allowed to marry the person they loved because it was considered mixed races, etc... Why should a gay person be denied their civil rights and be the target of Christians more so than any other sinner?

There are gay people (a few I know of) that are on these forums... and all this bashing of gay people here and there in the religious forums will only continue to drive a wedge where I don't think one should be. If you think about it 2A - Christianity and etrnal life is the best gift of all - why not share it with gay people instead of throwing the scripture in their face as a - you don't belong with us mentality. We all sin and we all are sinners. Its up to and between ONLY that person and their maker in the end.

Its one thing to try to help gay people and spread the word of Christianity, its another to continually point out through scripture the chastisement and belittlement YOU feel they should be dealt with. The Bible should be used as a caring instruction book on life, not as a whip on a whipping boy for people to exalt themselves by pointing out scripture and their interpretation on it in order to justify hatered.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I've always understood that if you accept God into your heart, you are "saved."

Y'shua, Jesus, made a point that you had to "do the will of the Father". Maybe the third time is the charm. This is Y'shua speaking:

Matthew 7:21-23

<sup id="en-NASB-23338">21</sup>"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. <sup id="en-NASB-23339">22</sup>"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

<sup id="en-NASB-23340">23</sup>"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

This was from Paul.

1 Corinthians 6:8-10


<sup id="en-NASB-28476">8</sup>On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. <sup id="en-NASB-28477">9</sup>Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

<sup id="en-NASB-28478">10</sup>nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

And to satisfy Dems, a different group of verses. This is also from Paul

Romans 6

Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God

<sup id="en-NASB-28070">1</sup>What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? <sup id="en-NASB-28071">2</sup>May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

<sup id="en-NASB-28072">3</sup>Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

<sup id="en-NASB-28073">4</sup>Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

<sup id="en-NASB-28074">5</sup>For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

<sup id="en-NASB-28075">6</sup>knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

<sup id="en-NASB-28076">7</sup>for he who has died is freed from sin.

<sup id="en-NASB-28077">8</sup>Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

<sup id="en-NASB-28078">9</sup>knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.

<sup id="en-NASB-28079">10</sup>For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

<sup id="en-NASB-28080">11</sup>Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

<sup id="en-NASB-28081">12</sup>Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,

<sup id="en-NASB-28082">13</sup>and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

<sup id="en-NASB-28083">14</sup>For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

<sup id="en-NASB-28084">15</sup>What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

<sup id="en-NASB-28085">16</sup>Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

<sup id="en-NASB-28086">17</sup>But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

<sup id="en-NASB-28087">18</sup>and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

<sup id="en-NASB-28088">19</sup>I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

<sup id="en-NASB-28089">20</sup>For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

<sup id="en-NASB-28090">21</sup>Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.

<sup id="en-NASB-28091">22</sup>But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

<sup id="en-NASB-28092">23</sup>For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I agree.

The Bible doesn't.

 

[nomoney]

Y'shua, Jesus, made a point that you had to "do the will of the Father". Maybe the third time is the charm. This is Y'shua speaking: This was from Paul. And to satisfy Dems, a different group of verses. This is also from Paul

can you answer that in english...so I don't have to read all that scripture? TIA.

 

[Railroad]

I can't believe y'all are still going at it, here. The original question has been answered about 50 times.

 

[2ndAmendment]

... If you think about it 2A - Christianity and etrnal life is the best gift of all - why not share it with gay people instead of throwing the scripture in their face as a - you don't belong with us mentality. We all sin and we all are sinners. Its up to and between ONLY that person and their maker in the end.

Its one thing to try to help gay people and spread the word of Christianity, its another to continually point out through scripture the chastisement and belittlement they should be dealt with. The Bible should be used as a caring instruction book on life, not as a whip on a whipping boy for people to exalt themselves by pointing out scripture and their interpretation on it in order to justify hatered.

And if it is not pointed out, how are the supposed to know? Sharing of the scripture is how they will know. No other way. I have not bashed anyone. I have posted scripture. The Truth, scripture, is offensive to those that do not believe it. I am surprise at you taking offense at the Truth.

 

[dems4me]

Y'shua, Jesus, made a point that you had to "do the will of the Father". Maybe the third time is the charm. This is Y'shua speaking: This was from Paul. And to satisfy Dems, a different group of verses. This is also from Paul

You are gasping at straws and block copying things from the Bible... No one argued that you shouldn't strive to do the will of the father... but no matter how hard you try... you are still a sinner are you not? The Lord knows a person's heart better than you or I and it will be up to HIM to judge. All you are doing is perpetuating the fact that you try to do with will of the father... who's to say gay people dont as well? but with fewer gays being Christian, you'd think you'd reach out to them insteadof condemn. You're Bible is about love 2A - not about picking apart other people's flaws. Imagine a gay person that is lost 2A... what approach do you think will better to convert gayt peopld -- you're way -- YOU are an abomination to God!!! It says so!!! Right here!!! Go away!!! You don't belong with us "perfect" sinless Christians" or -- yes... we all sin and all sin is an abomination to God, but there is hope.. hope in Jesus Christ who died for our sins. :shrug:
What are you not getting here 2A? The response you want to hear? That gay people should not even exist? We are just not getting anywhere and again, we will have to agree to disagree. You continue to use your Bible to your hearts content singling out all sinners for their sins and then berate them and condemn them and I'll continue to use mine for showing the love and compassion it teaches for ALL humanity.

 

[dems4me]

And if it is not pointed out, how are the supposed to know? Sharing of the scripture is how they will know. No other way. I have not bashed anyone. I have posted scripture. The Truth, scripture, is offensive to those that do not believe it. I am surprise at you taking offense at the Truth.

I don't take offense to the Truth I take offense to those that talk about other people's sins more than their own. Have you looked up to see what the Bible says about YOUR own sins half as much as you have looked up that of others? Or half as much as you have looked up to rebuttal back for your argument and self-justificaiton for judging others? I think not. I have absolutely zero qualms with the Bible or Truth. I too am a Christian however I am a humble Christian. Remember the beattitude - the meak shall inherit the earth :shrug: You are by far (from my own judgements ) meak in your own sins and transgression, you appear to be more of Bible whipping - alienitistic zealot (didn't mean for that to sound so harsh, I know you are a good person and I love you but that's the way you are coming across right now sweetie. Again, judging people for their sins is between you and the Lord - not me, ok honey? Love ya.

 

[2ndAmendment]

can you answer that in english...so I don't have to read all that scripture? TIA.

That is English. That is one of the problems. Too many people want to get to heaven but they won't take the time to read the "instruction manual".

Short version. To be saved, you must accept God's plan of salvation. That plan is admit you are a sinner, repent from your sin, accept God as man, Y'shua (we know Him as Jesus) as Savior and Lord. Repenting from sin is admitting the action, thought, whatever, is sin and vowing not to do it again. That does not mean you might not slip up again, but you will, if you are a Christian, repent again, and again, and again, until the Holy Spirit finally gets a hold of you strong enough that you don't do that sin again. Then God will start working on the next sin and eliminate that one.

The passage from Matthew says there are lots of people that think they are going to heaven, even those that think they are saved, that are not. The passage from Corinthians lists a whole group of types of sinners that will not get into heaven unless they repent. Actually any sinner that is unrepentant will fall short. One sin is as bad as another in God's eyes. The chapter from Romans says that just because you have accepted Christ, you should not continue sinning.

 

[K_Jo]

Here's what I want to know: If two men agree to fornicate and they're not raping each other and they're not forcing you to be gay with them, WHO THE HE!! CARES?????