Push for 'shall-issue' concealed carry in MD

[ylexot]

Have you ever read a sign that says, " this establishment reserves the right to refuse service to anyone"? I see them all over, mostly in bars and restaurants. AND, most busineses are private property just like my house. Yes, Target has the right to refuse you entrance. Like I said before, go ask your police chief if you can carry your gun legally into a posted place of business.

So stores can refuse service to blacks?

I've seen the "no shirt, no shoes, no service" signs, but those are for health reasons. Proprieters need good reason to refuse service (i.e. guns and alcohol are a bad combination).

 

[willie]

My brother in law has a rotten temper and has had several road rage situations. He doesn't like anyone. I don't think he should have a CCW.

 

[Bruzilla]

Here's some observations from the land where you almost get a concealed carry permit with your driver's license.

In Florida, they've had very lax concealed carry laws for over a decade, and gun shops are a thriving business. Just last weekend, there was a huge "Christmas Gun Show" at one of the major entertainment venues down here, and there were even spots for it on the "Things to Do This Weekend" segments of the local newscasts... imagine a news anchor in Maryland saying "and don't forget the huge gun show this weekend at the convention center. Plenty of handguns, shotguns, and rifles on sale for Christmas!"

I've had my concealed carry permit since June of this year, and I've yet to carry a concealed gun. I haven't carried one because, to be honest, I've never felt the need to carry one down here, and I think that's significant. Violent stranger crime is dang low down here... mostly because there's no way to tell who's armed and who isn't. The threat that a person might be armed is alone enough to disuade most criminals. There are thousands and thousands of CWPs issued every year down here, and I doubt many of those people carry a gun at all times. But, the fact that "X" number of people in "X" county have CWPs sends a pretty strong message to the bad guys.

There are very few restrictions on where I can't have a concealed weapon. For example, I work for a major health insurer, and I can't have a weapon in the building, but I can have one in my car in the parking lot. That's different from most companies in Maryland where you can't have one anywhere on company property. So aside from schools and bars (does not include restauraunts where liquor is served) you can carry just about anywhere.

And yet through all of this, our stranger-on-stranger crime is amongst the lowest in the country, and our familiar crime is about the same as anywhere else. Go figure.

 

[aps45819]

Really? So store owners can have signs that say "No blacks"?

Of course they can. If the store owner decides that massive protests and expensive lawsuits are a good way to make money, they can put up a hugh NO BLACKS sign on the front of their business.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

Go figure.

Cannot legally protect him/herself = victim in police state

Can and just very well might protect him/herself = polite society of free people.

How's that?

 

[SmallTown]

I've had my concealed carry permit since June of this year, and I've yet to carry a concealed gun. I haven't carried one because, to be honest, I've never felt the need to carry one down here, and I think that's significant. Violent stranger crime is dang low down here... mostly because there's no way to tell who's armed and who isn't.

I think this also has to do with the laid back mentallity in Florida, not just the fact that everyone could possibly have a gun. Like you say, you feel you don't need to carry. Sure, this could be a result of not knowing who has a gun, but probably has more to do with the types of people there. Not to sound racist, but areas that have decided to have gun control law are generally troubled areas in the first place. Sure, people will say that these areas are troubled BECAUSE of the gun laws, but I really doubt that is the case. Not saying the control is the answer

I also think people have the wrong idea about carrying. I live in a state that has a pretty easy to obtain conceal carry law just as you do. It isn't like you walk down the street and see everyone's jacket bulging, with everyone ready to draw at the sound of a car backfiring. Heck, in all the time I have lived here in Va, I have known only 1 person to carry on a consistent basis. If this notion does get through Maryland, you'll have your typical "new toy" syndrom where a lot of people will carry just because now they can. They eventually realize the restrictions just aren't worth it, or really don't feel the need to carry, and will just stop. So people who think Maryland will just turn into a "shoot first" mentality is sadly mistaken.

 

[Cletus_Vandam]

To all the idiots out there...

Guns are used everyday to PREVENT acts of violence and crime w/o even discharging a round. Many times the simple displaying of a firearm to a would be criminal is all that is needed to prevent yourself from being a victim.

For all those idiots out there that want to say, I'd just shoot you in the back then steal your money... Well guess what, that happens everyday. It might happen to you, me, or someone that either of us know or love. So, does that mean that I have to give up my right to potentially protect myself from an act similar to that simply becuase you are afraid of the LAW-ABIDDING citizen who wants to carry a firearm?

Christ!!! It pi$$es me off to no end hearing people B!TCH and whine about all their concerns over the possibility of me, a law abidding citizen being given the right to carry a concealed weapon. Yet criminals are walking the sreets all day, everyday with illegially obtained (stolen, straw purchased, etc.) weapons with one idea in their mind.... use the weapon to commit a violent crime such as rape or murder.

I have said this before... humans, more specific criminals, are no different than the animal kingdom. The lions and tigers don't go after the strongest and fastest zebra, they seek and hunt out the slowest and weakest... Why it's easier prey. If a criminal has to think about whether or not you might have a Glock on you hip, he's going to think a little harder about trying to jack your ride.... Florida's laws changes re: CCW and their crime rates went down for that specific reason.

Maryland borders one of the highest crime riden areas in the County (DC). Criminals from DC have begun to impregnate Sounthern Maryland (Waldorf to be specific).

CCW laws need to change to allow a person to not have to go through the crap they do now-PERIOD! MD needs to learn from VA, FL, OH, etc.... The list goes on and on....

For the fool that said guns have one purpose, to kill. WRONG!!! That's about as accurate as saying cars have one purpose, transportation. I have several guns and I have never killed. Guns are used as sport (skeet, trap, target, etc.-there are even Olympic events catering to target shooting). BTW: Ted Kennedy's car has taken more lives than any of my guns..... Case CLOSED.

 

[willie]

I mentioned, earlier in this thread, my bad tempered brother in law. In the last road rage incident he was in (he was tailgating a left lane hog) the only reason it didn't get into a fistfight was he was outnumbered and both of them outweighed him by a lot. His evaluation of the situation was that if he had an "equalizer" he would have taught them a lesson. He has no record so what are the safeguards keeping a gun away from him? What would happen in PG County if the CCW requirements were more liberal (Meaning easy to get )? Besides being afraid of an armed robbery in PG you better watch out for inadvertently offending anybody with an attitude. Instead of parading their Pit Bulls and Rotts, they'll be packing heat legally. What can be done to prevent this? Do you think it should be prevented? PG is not comparable to Virginia or Florida.

 

[Ken King]

I mentioned, earlier in this thread, my bad tempered brother in law. In the last road rage incident he was in (he was tailgating a left lane hog) the only reason it didn't get into a fistfight was he was outnumbered and both of them outweighed him by a lot. His evaluation of the situation was that if he had an "equalizer" he would have taught them a lesson. He has no record so what are the safeguards keeping a gun away from him? What would happen in PG County if the CCW requirements were more liberal (Meaning easy to get )? Besides being afraid of an armed robbery in PG you better watch out for inadvertently offending anybody with an attitude. Instead of parading their Pit Bulls and Rotts, they'll be packing heat legally. What can be done to prevent this? Do you think it should be prevented? PG is not comparable to Virginia or Florida.

Your brother seems to be a major assclown that probably would resort to using a weapon for a minor altercation anyway regardless if he is allowed to carry one concealed or not. But he is also what I would say is an exception to the norm.

If you cared about him being allowed to carry one, concealed or not, I am sure there is a mechanism in place for you to report him to the authorities in order to prevent him being allowed to own a firearm, much less carry one. As mental instability is one of the reasons to deny ownership or possession of a firearm it seems you could prevent the problem before it becomes one, but then again he would probably just shoot you since he is such a hothead.

 

[Bruzilla]

People wide, there is no difference between people in Florida and those in VA and DC. I live in Jacksonville, and most of the people here aren't from here. The largest population is either active duty or retired military, so in a lot of ways it like Pax River.

Also, Florida has proven the effect armed citizens have on criminals. After allowing citizens to keep loaded guns in cars in the early 80s, criminals started targeting tourists in rental cars because these cars had a special tag at the time. When they started catching these guys and asking them why they suddenly started tageting tourists at the airports they said "because they're the only drivers were sure don't have guns." Once the rental car tags were eliminated, and the bad guys could no longer tell the lions from the sheep, the car jackings stopped. What's important to note here is that there was no way that a majority or drivers were armed, probably one in 5,000 or so had any kind of weapon in the car yet along a gun, but even those small odds of confronting an armed citizen was enough to deter the bad guys.

There is one very important difference between people in Florida and those in Maryland. If the Florida Legislature votes in a law, like limiting CWPs, the people have the option of getting a referendum to repeal the law on the next ballot and get it off the books.

 

[ylexot]

If you cared about him being allowed to carry one, concealed or not, I am sure there is a mechanism in place for you to report him to the authorities in order to prevent him being allowed to own a firearm, much less carry one. As mental instability is one of the reasons to deny ownership or possession of a firearm it seems you could prevent the problem before it becomes one, but then again he would probably just shoot you since he is such a hothead.

The alternative is to wait until he goes to prison for murder.

 

[ylexot]

Also, Florida has proven the effect armed citizens have on criminals. After allowing citizens to keep loaded guns in cars in the early 80s, criminals started targeting tourists in rental cars because these cars had a special tag at the time. When they started catching these guys and asking them why they suddenly started tageting tourists at the airports they said "because they're the only drivers were sure don't have guns." Once the rental car tags were eliminated, and the bad guys could no longer tell the lions from the sheep, the car jackings stopped. What's important to note here is that there was no way that a majority or drivers were armed, probably one in 5,000 or so had any kind of weapon in the car yet along a gun, but even those small odds of confronting an armed citizen was enough to deter the bad guys.

Like my Dad used to say, criminals are cowards.

 

[SurfaceTension]

His evaluation of the situation was that if he had an "equalizer" he would have taught them a lesson.... He has no record so what are the safeguards keeping a gun away from him?

None, just as there are now. The only thing preventing him from carrying now is a few words in a book in Annapolis (i.e. Code of Maryland)....In that very same book, there are words that describe when the use of force is legal. Your BIL sounds like a blowhard, but one that generally obeys the law. If he's not bound by the social contract that is our law, a few words in a book will not affect his actions either way.

 

[aps45819]

Imagine that, the possibility of a bullet in your guts is more of a deterrent than 3 hots and a cot with cable TV and a workout room.

 

[Cletus_Vandam]

Willie

I mentioned, earlier in this thread, my bad tempered brother in law. In the last road rage incident he was in (he was tailgating a left lane hog) the only reason it didn't get into a fistfight was he was outnumbered and both of them outweighed him by a lot. His evaluation of the situation was that if he had an "equalizer" he would have taught them a lesson. He has no record so what are the safeguards keeping a gun away from him? What would happen in PG County if the CCW requirements were more liberal (Meaning easy to get )? Besides being afraid of an armed robbery in PG you better watch out for inadvertently offending anybody with an attitude. Instead of parading their Pit Bulls and Rotts, they'll be packing heat legally. What can be done to prevent this? Do you think it should be prevented? PG is not comparable to Virginia or Florida.

With regard to your comments:

Your Brother: Have you forgotten your brother is behind the wheel of a lethal weapon? What stopped him from simply running over the group of people who out numbered him?

Comparisions between PG County and FL: Have you ever (or recently) been to Miami or southern Florida. That would be a comparable area.

Are far as the thugs with their pits and rotties: How do you know they aren't carrying legally or illegally right now?

As far as concealed carry is concerned, my understanding of what it is intended for is for your personnal protection. Not to allow you to become a fre-lance police officer. If you were in PG and witnessed an armed robbery happening across the street, if you took action to thwart the crime and used your waepon to do so, you would be at the mercy of the State's Attorney and whether or not he wished to press charges against you.

Again, we're back to the question of "why are people more afraid of someone people wanting to protect themselves, moreso than the criminals who are (1) already armed and (2) ready to commit a violent crime. Everyone here can pose questions and come up with a goofy "excuse" why CCW permits are "EVIL", but I challenge all to find real life examples of rampant misuse of weapons in States where concealed carry was allowed.... Sorry, but I doubt you'll find anything except lower volient crime rates.

 

[Cletus_Vandam]

Approved vs. Not Disapproved

Also, is everyone forgetting that fact that NO ONE is approved to own a handgun in the State of Maryland??? We aren't "approved" we are just "not disapproved"...

Go figure. More proof of the gun grabbers trying to take the liberties away!

 

[willie]

With regard to your comments:

Your Brother: Have you forgotten your brother is behind the wheel of a lethal weapon? What stopped him from simply running over the group of people who out numbered him?
It was road rage cletus.....He did try the car as a weapon.

Comparisions between PG County and FL: Have you ever (or recently) been to Miami or southern Florida. That would be a comparable area.

I'll say it again more clearly....PG County is not comparable to Florida, Texas and especially Virginia. Miami and deep southern Florida, yes. Those are the type of areas that I'm talking about. If you don't think PG has a high (huge? maybe) number of violent prone people (male and female) then you don't keep up with the news. Do you really want these type of misfits to qualify for a CCW?


Are far as the thugs with their pits and rotties: How do you know they aren't carrying legally or illegally right now?

If the law was liberalized, I would be positive that they were carrying.

As far as concealed carry is concerned, my understanding of what it is intended for is for your personnal protection. Not to allow you to become a fre-lance police officer. If you were in PG and witnessed an armed robbery happening across the street, if you took action to thwart the crime and used your waepon to do so, you would be at the mercy of the State's Attorney and whether or not he wished to press charges against you.

Good common sense statement. That was my sole reason for applying for a CCW.

Again, we're back to the question of "why are people more afraid of someone people wanting to protect themselves, moreso than the criminals who are (1) already armed and (2) ready to commit a violent crime. Everyone here can pose questions and come up with a goofy "excuse" why CCW permits are "EVIL", but I challenge all to find real life examples of rampant misuse of weapons in States where concealed carry was allowed.... Sorry, but I doubt you'll find anything except lower volient crime rates.

Your last paragraph is your interpretation of what someone is thinking. Not a good practice.

Ken King said earlier "As mental instability is one of the reasons to deny ownership or possession of a firearm it seems you could prevent the problem before it becomes one, but then again he would probably just shoot you since he is such a hothead."

Mental instability has to be documented to prevent you from obtaining a CCW. There are a lot of people out there do not have the mental capacity to control themselves but who is to know? Do you really think it's a good idea for these types to be armed? I am absolutely for a person to be able to get his CCW 5 minutes after he fills out the form if he/she really needs protection and is of stable mind. I don't see how that is possible to determine unless Big Brother owns your soul from birth.

 

[Ken King]

Your last paragraph is your interpretation of what someone is thinking. Not a good practice.

Ken King said earlier "As mental instability is one of the reasons to deny ownership or possession of a firearm it seems you could prevent the problem before it becomes one, but then again he would probably just shoot you since he is such a hothead."

Mental instability has to be documented to prevent you from obtaining a CCW. There are a lot of people out there do not have the mental capacity to control themselves but who is to know? Do you really think it's a good idea for these types to be armed? I am absolutely for a person to be able to get his CCW 5 minutes after he fills out the form if he/she really needs protection and is of stable mind. I don't see how that is possible to determine unless Big Brother owns your soul from birth.

True the instability has to be documented, just as I suspect the disqualification for being a habitual drunkard. But documented could be as easy as contacting the Secretary of the State Police and providing the specific information. Not only would that prevent a person from getting a CCW but it could prevent them from even owning, purchasing, or possessing any firearm.

 

[Bruzilla]

I can see one major philisophical difference between Maryland and Florida. Florida's CCW law is a pretty open admission by law enforcement that they can't be everywhere they are needed, when they are needed, and carrying a concealed weapon does indeed act as a force multiplier for law enforcement. The way that Florida's laws read, you can use your weapon to protect yourself and others from bodily harm (a change to the law that I believe was a result of the Luby's Cafeteria attack in Texas), and you can protect your property. The law does not limit the use to protecting you personally from an immanent threat of death, and if someone's in your house going out the door with your DVD player and jewelry you aren't limited to "calling the police" as your only option.

When you limit your justification to "personal self defense", then you have to justify why a habitual drunkard is any less entitled to personal self defense than someone who drinks on occasion?

 

[Larry Gude]

Bruz...

...and there you have it:

The way that Florida's laws read, you can use your weapon to protect yourself and others from bodily harm (a change to the law that I believe was a result of the Luby's Cafeteria attack in Texas), and you can protect your property. The law does not limit the use to protecting you personally from an immanent threat of death, and if someone's in your house going out the door with your DVD player and jewelry you aren't limited to "calling the police" as your only option.

Maryland SPECIFICALLY forbids you from using lethal force or even presenting a weapon in the case of robbery, eve nin YOUR home. You MUST feel that you are in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death and only if you have no avenue of retreat.

AND, and, and you can ONLY use lethal force or present lethal force for your own benefit or that of a family member. Strangers, to bad. Woman being beaten by a gang? To bad. Maryland FORBIDS you from intervening with lethal force or presenting lethal force.