Repentance

[ItalianScallion]

Excellent comments Italian Scallion! Psalm 19:1 sums it up:

(King James Version)
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

(New International Version)
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

(New American Standard Bible)
The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.

Reminds me of a comment I once heard:
"Some people find the answer to Creation by looking toward Heaven while others still search for the answer by digging holes in the ground."

Text Source: BibleGateway.com

Thank you my friend. Keep up the good work also. P.S. I wish you'd use the NIV more. That Shakespearean English is tough on the mind. Thanks

 

[Starman3000m]

No, it is unconditional,

it is a free gift to us all whether anyone likes it or not.

Our Father does not ask our permission to be born or to die and He does not ask our permission to be saved either.

It is unconditional love, whether anyone likes it or not.

I see where you are coming from, JPC sr, but Marie is actually correct when you really evaluate the action one must take. Yes God Loves mankind totally and is not willing that anyone should perish. (2 Peter 3:9)

But, because mankind became separated from God through Satan's deception, man has inherited a fallen and sinful state of being and is in need of reconciliation with God. Thus, the way to be reconciled with God is to accept the Offer of Salvation that can only come through the Atoning Blood of Christ. Remember that the Holy Bible states that you cannot reconcile yourself with God just by doing "good works" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

In other words, no person can pay the price and do the works that it takes to gain Salvation because Jesus' Atonement has already taken care of that.
HOWEVER, the individual needs to

1.) Admit that he/she, by their own lifestyle and/or actions have transgressed the Laws of God and is presently not living for God;

2.) Be willing to change Repent from the things that keep them separated from God by what the Bible calls sin;

3.) Trust in your heart that Jesus was in fact The Son of God who shed His Blood to pay for any and all of your transgressions against God; and,

4.) Ask for and Invite God's Forgiveness into your life through the Only Sanctioned Way that God has provided; the Atoning Blood of Christ.

Remember, JPC sr, how you have stated that one must take action? That's the way it is with the Free Gift of Salvation that God offers to everyone. It's not yours until you take the willful action to be willing to change (repent) and accept God's Forgiveness in the only way He Sanctions and that is believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is The Son of God and that His Atoning Blood is the only way for the remission of all your sin.


Many people do not believe in the Deity and Lordship of Jesus, thus, by rejecting Him they reject the Free Gift of Salvation that they had been offered.

John 3:

17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

I see where you are coming from, JPC sr, but Marie is actually correct when you really evaluate the action one must take. Yes God Loves mankind totally and is not willing that anyone should perish. (2 Peter 3:9)

But, because mankind became separated from God through Satan's deception, man has inherited a fallen and sinful state of being and is in need of reconciliation with God. Thus, the way to be reconciled with God is to accept the Offer of Salvation that can only come through the Atoning Blood of Christ. Remember that the Holy Bible states that you cannot reconcile yourself with God just by doing "good works" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

In other words, no person can pay the price and do the works that it takes to gain Salvation because Jesus' Atonement has already taken care of that.
HOWEVER, the individual needs to

1.) Admit that he/she, by their own lifestyle and/or actions have transgressed the Laws of God and is presently not living for God;

2.) Be willing to change Repent from the things that keep them separated from God by what the Bible calls sin;

3.) Trust in your heart that Jesus was in fact The Son of God who shed His Blood to pay for any and all of your transgressions against God; and,

4.) Ask for and Invite God's Forgiveness into your life through the Only Sanctioned Way that God has provided; the Atoning Blood of Christ.

Remember, JPC sr, how you have stated that one must take action? That's the way it is with the Free Gift of Salvation that God offers to everyone. It's not yours until you take the willful action to be willing to change (repent) and accept God's Forgiveness in the only way He Sanctions and that is believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is The Son of God and that His Atoning Blood is the only way for the remission of all your sin.


Many people do not believe in the Deity and Lordship of Jesus, thus, by rejecting Him they reject the Free Gift of Salvation that they had been offered.

John 3:

17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

If you guys believe that way then that is fine by me,

but it is claiming power that us humans do not have.

Like some one can tell God "no" and it then means no, people do not have that option nor that power.

I like the Book of Revelation call of; Come out of her my people, link HERE,

but Orthodox Preachers say that is a request, but I tell that it is an order.

The Father saves His children whether the children like it or not.

We do not have the power nor the option of saying no to God.

 

[Starman3000m]

If you guys believe that way then that is fine by me,

but it is claiming power that us humans do not have.

The Father saves His children whether the children like it or not.

We do not have the power nor the option of saying no to God.

In other words: No Free Will?

If that is the case why don't people have the power to say NO to the things that draw them away from God?

You say NO to God each time you do something He already has said is Wrong. That in itself shows that you say No to God and many people, including Muslims say NO they do not accept that Jesus was The Son of God nor do they believe Jesus' Atonement for their sins.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

In other words: No Free Will?

If that is the case why don't people have the power to say NO to the things that draw them away from God?

You say NO to God each time you do something He already has said is Wrong. That in itself shows that you say No to God and many people, including Muslims say NO they do not accept that Jesus was The Son of God nor do they believe Jesus' Atonement for their sins.

It is true that we can physically say "no" to God and we can mean it most sincerely,

and we reap what we sow accordingly.

The scriptures explain it best in the beginning in Genesis that mankind is given dominion for now but we all sinned and continue to sin (miss the mark) and on Judgement Day then the children come home to poppa and then it will work out just fine.

 

[Starman3000m]

So the Native Peoples werent Saved? Are the pre-1492 Native Americans living in Hell?
They had no ability to show Repentence to your God, nor a faith towards Jesus until the Spaniards came and exposed them to Christianity.

Up until then they were following beliefs and faiths and Gods that were drastically different than your own.

C'mon Knucklesack, Give God A Break!

All of the Native Peoples and Tribes that spread throughout the whole earth originated from the point of mankind's appearance on earth; the Middle East.

The ancestors would have already known about God's Existence and what it would take to be obedient to Him according to the original Covenant between God and mankind. God would know which of the ancient people were abiding by the Covenant.

Enter the NEW COVENANT.

This is the message that people No Longer have to try to earn the salvation and relationship with God through the obligated sacrifices and that pagan worship is STILL an abomination to God as it was back in the Beginning.

The GOOD NEWS took effect when It Was Delivered and Accepted, yet, I believe God would have still honored the ancient people for abiding by the original Covenant if they had not yet heard about Jesus Atonement.

Ancient people were always told that there was ONE GOD and paganism was an abomination. It's just that the religious leadership would establish the course of its community. Who is to say that there were not ancient individuals who refused to follow paganism and held to the original belief and faith in the ONE GOD that was spoken of since the days of Adam and Eve.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Ok first dont take this as baiting you, cuz i'm not.
Between 6000-7000 years ago (when some believe the earth was created) and 1492 (when the America's were discovered). there was 5500-6500 years of Native American's who lived and died.
They never recieved your God's "Word". The "word" they were exposed to was from their God(s) who was drastically different than your own.
They also never knew or acknowledged that a Savior was born and died for their Sins (get to those in a second).
Now when the America's were discovered they were "enlightened" to the Christian God, and Beliefs and Savior. But what happened to the Native people pre-1492?
They never knew your God, they never acknowledged nor knew Jesus. Does this mean they died Sinners, and went to hell?
If they didnt go to Hell, why? How does that square with being repentent? they werent, because their beliefs were different than your own.
If they did go to Hell, why? they never had exposure to the knowledge of anythign different as such they never acknowledged the tennents that your Rules state they must (acknowledge the one true God, Jesus).
Sins, the Christian concept of Sins in alot of ways was greatly different than what an Aztec/Incan/Souix thought of as sins. If they lived their life, within the pretext of not sinning in their Religion, but it is considered a sin in yours, are they a sinner?

I can't speak for how God will make that call, nor HOW He revealed Himself to them and to what extent, but I can say with certainty what I said yesterday. God will make Himself known to everyone in some way (whether they'll believe in Him or not) so that no one can say they never heard of Him. Exactly how, is up to God and it depends on how the person can receive it. You said: "the people pre 1492 never knew your (my) God nor acknowledged nor knew Jesus" but no one really knows that except God and them. Many people heard about God in the OT (without a Bible) but refused to believe in Him so judgment was cast upon them. Those natives could have done the same thing. They didn't have the Bible, so (in some cases) God may have revealed Himself to them with signs and wonders from heaven and through His creation. As I said earlier, when God revealed Himself to them, it could have been done in a non-material way (dreams, thoughts, visions) and not with a book or radio/TV show or missionary. The Bible doesn't reveal EVERY WAY that God shows Himself but, as judge of all creation, He can't send anyone to hell who has not heard of Him. He has to have made everyone hear of Him in SOME way, for Him to be fair & just in His actions. How He does it, we don't always know and that's my best answer to you. People MUST know something about God or He can't righteously send them to hell. In the case of babies, there is no judement on them if they die before they get to their age of accountability. Good stuff again Nucklesack! Thanks.

 

[Starman3000m]

I can't speak for how God will make that call, nor HOW He revealed Himself to them and to what extent, but I can say with certainty what I said yesterday. God will make Himself known to everyone in some way (whether they'll believe in Him or not) so that no one can say they never heard of Him. Exactly how, is up to God and it depends on how the person can receive it. You said: "the people pre 1492 never knew your (my) God nor acknowledged nor knew Jesus" but no one really knows that except God and them. Many people heard about God in the OT (without a Bible) but refused to believe in Him so judgment was cast upon them. Those natives could have done the same thing. They didn't have the Bible, so (in some cases) God may have revealed Himself to them with signs and wonders from heaven and through His creation. As I said earlier, when God revealed Himself to them, it could have been done in a non-material way (dreams, thoughts, visions) and not with a book or radio/TV show or missionary. The Bible doesn't reveal EVERY WAY that God shows Himself but, as judge of all creation, He can't send anyone to hell who has not heard of Him. He has to have made everyone hear of Him in SOME way, for Him to be fair & just in His actions. How He does it, we don't always know and that's my best answer to you. People MUST know something about God or He can't righteously send them to hell. In the case of babies, there is no judement on them if they die before they get to their age of accountability. Good stuff again Nucklesack! Thanks.

As usual, good response ItalianScallion! And good questions from Knucklesack!

I think another thing to recall is that after Jesus was crucified, His Spirit/Soul descended into Hades to free the souls of the people who had trusted and worshipped Yahweh, thus, His Atoning Blood set those captives Free as well.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
(1 Peter 3:18-19)

Like you mention, though, we don't always nor can we completely know God's ways.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
(Isaiah 55:8-9)

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

Like you mention, though, we don't always nor can we completely know God's ways.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
(Isaiah 55:8-9)

Is not it peculiar that now these do not have the answer?

It is my understanding that God tells His followers everything, link HERE.

The confusion is seen in one of the fundamental Orthodox beliefs of a "personal savior."

Because making Christ "personal" is a selfish act that cuts out thy neighbors.

Instead of accepting Christ as a personal savior then we need to see and accept that Christ is everybody's savior.

There is no conditions or requirements as it is a free gift from unconditional love to all of humanity.

Making it a personal faith that cuts out our enemies is just so very far from Christ message.

 

[Starman3000m]

Is not it peculiar that now these do not have the answer?

It is my understanding that God tells His followers everything, link HERE.

The confusion is seen in one of the fundamental Orthodox beliefs of a "personal savior."

Because making Christ "personal" is a selfish act that cuts out thy neighbors.

Instead of accepting Christ as a personal savior then we need to see and accept that Christ is everybody's savior.

There is no conditions or requirements as it is a free gift from unconditional love to all of humanity.

Making it a personal faith that cuts out our enemies is just so very far from Christ message.

Jesus declared that it is a personal action of faith on whether you accept Him as being the Son of The Living God and by faith receive Him as your personal Lord and Saviour. Because each person has free-will he/she is given that choice to make. There are many religions who deny Christ's Deity and position as Lord and Saviour of mankind, thus, reject God's Plan of Salvation.

That is the main revelation of the faith that one needs to know regarding God's Plan of Salvation. There are some other things that we cannot have a total understanding of until Christ returns but the main point of pertinent knowledge that assures one's salvation has already been revealed through Christ.

Remember, God offers Salvation through Christ BUT it ain't yours until you sincerely believe by faith that only He can Save you and that you are willing to let Him be Lord of Your Life. Many religions, ie. Islam, Orthdox Judaism, Hindus, etc. Do Not Believe That.

You can be offered something but yet not be willing to accept it, thus, it is not yours.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

You can be offered something but yet not be willing to accept it, thus, it is not yours.

You just do not have that option nor that power.

We do not tell God what we are going to do and not do except in your inflated ego.

 

[Starman3000m]

You just do not have that option nor that power.

We do not tell God what we are going to do and not do except in your inflated ego.

If you believe that God set forth the Ten Commandments for mankind to live by, did you have the option and the power to disregard God on any one of them - or, did God cause you to break one (or more) of the Laws?

Since God declared that breaking any one of the Commandments nullified your relationship with Him would you have the option to personally pay restitution and get back on track only to fail again, or would you admit that you are guilty of breaking His Laws and deserve the punishment but that you are placing your faith in Jesus' Atonement to pay for your transgression(s)?



And for this cause he (Jesus) is the mediator of the New Testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. (Hebrews 9:15)

(Anyone) that believeth on him (Jesus) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

If you believe that God set forth the Ten Commandments for mankind to live by, did you have the option and the power to disregard God on any one of them - or, did God cause you to break one (or more) of the Laws?

The ten commandments were and still are for the strong and the weak always fail under them.

Since God declared that breaking any one of the Commandments nullified your relationship with Him would you have the option to personally pay restitution and get back on track only to fail again, or would you admit that you are guilty of breaking His Laws and deserve the punishment but that you are placing your faith in Jesus' Atonement to pay for your transgression(s)?

It works both ways like a two edged sword. Thus it covers both the strong and the weak.

And for this cause he (Jesus) is the mediator of the New Testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. (Hebrews 9:15)

They that are called are few at first, then many more are called, then most then all are called on Judgement Day.

No one gets left behind and Christ paid the price in full (not partial).

(Anyone) that believeth on him (Jesus) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

See how it speaks in the present tense, that the condemnation comes here and now that we all reap whatever we sow here and now. People need saving today and in the present and not after death where they wait for resurection at Judgement Day.

When one believes that they shall be in paradise after death and others sent to a Hell then you just do not know what the cross meant.

 

[Starman3000m]

The ten commandments were and still are for the strong and the weak always fail under them. It works both ways like a two edged sword. Thus it covers both the strong and the weak.They that are called are few at first, then many more are called, then most then all are called on Judgement Day.

No one gets left behind and Christ paid the price in full (not partial). See how it speaks in the present tense, that the condemnation comes here and now that we all reap whatever we sow here and now. People need saving today and in the present and not after death where they wait for resurection at Judgement Day.

When one believes that they shall be in paradise after death and others sent to a Hell then you just do not know what the cross meant.

You are still in my prayers JPC sr.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

So the Native Peoples werent Saved? Are the pre-1492 Native Americans living in Hell?
They had no ability to show Repentence to your God, nor a faith towards Jesus until the Spaniards came and exposed them to Christianity.

Up until then they were following beliefs and faiths and Gods that were drastically different than your own.

The confusion comes from Christianity but not from Christ nor really from the scriptures.

The "Christianity" and Christ are far different from each other.

I found that to be true of virtually all religions.

Like the "Noble Truths" of the Buddha is far from the Buddhism.

The dark wisdom of the Sanskit is far better than Hinduism.

Humanity is far more messed up then is the old religious text that are preserved for today,
and we have secular scholars that tear the old scriptures apart so that we can truly get to the hard truth of every sourse.

If one or all do seek the truth then it is there to be found.

 

[2ndAmendment]

JPC, You wouldn't know the truth if it walked up to you face to face.

Humans can do what they want to do. God gave humans freewill. If we did not have freewill, then humans could not sin. But sin by humans is a fact and the Bible says so in both the Old and New Testaments.

Genesis 13Now the men of Sodom were wicked exceedingly and sinners against the LORD.

Matthew 1:21"She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

Matthew 9:13"But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Revelation 18:4-6

4I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;

5for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

6"Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her.

So from Genesis to Revelation and all in between, the Bible says humans are sinners and as such are capable of rebelling against God.

You saying that people cannot tell God what they are going to do is disagreeing with the word of God, the Bible. Would that be sin?

You are a prime example of:

2 Timothy 3:7always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

and

2 Timothy 3:3-4

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

I doubt that anyone takes anything you say seriously, and that is fortunate for you and them. To lead anyone astray from the truth is not a good thing.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

JPC, You wouldn't know the truth if it walked up to you face to face.

Humans can do what they want to do. God gave humans freewill. If we did not have freewill, then humans could not sin. But sin by humans is a fact and the Bible says so in both the Old and New Testaments.


So from Genesis to Revelation and all in between, the Bible says humans are sinners and as such are capable of rebelling against God.

You saying that people cannot tell God what they are going to do is disagreeing with the word of God, the Bible. Would that be sin?

You are a prime example of:
andI doubt that anyone takes anything you say seriously, and that is fortunate for you and them. To lead anyone astray from the truth is not a good thing.

There is no dispute that people sin,

the point is that Christ paid the penalty in full (not partial) and so all sins are forgiven and paid.

The very idea that even one person might burn in Hell is contrary to the price paid at the cross.

The Day of Judgement will be a great time with everybody forgiven and everybody saved.

The concept of Hell is maintained by people (not God) that refuse to grant forgiveness.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...

The Day of Judgement will be a great time with everybody forgiven and everybody saved.

Again, you pump out this lie straight from the pits of hell. Everyone is not saved. You completely ignore the words of Jesus.

Matthew 7:16-23

16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Yes, Jesus paid the price of salvation for all who accept it. It is a gift by grace from God.

Romans 3:23-26


23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:4-9

4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,

5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

But the key you keep missing that is given in the Bible for all who can read and comprehend what they read is that a person must accept that gift by their own free will. A gift may be given, but until you accept it, it is not yours.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

Again, you pump out this lie straight from the pits of hell. Everyone is not saved. You completely ignore the words of Jesus.

Yes, Jesus paid the price of salvation for all who accept it. It is a gift by grace from God.

But the key you keep missing that is given in the Bible for all who can read and comprehend what they read is that a person must accept that gift by their own free will. A gift may be given, but until you accept it, it is not yours.

It is people like 2A here that refuse to forgive their fellow man, except by human conditions.

But the true Father God gives out everything unconditionally while mankind still rejects it.

The point is that the rejection is futile and will fail,

while salvation is eternal and it will succeed for all,

so for people to keep choosing wrong is utterly vain and people will fail even in their rejections.

 

[PsyOps]

It is people like 2A here that refuse to forgive their fellow man, except by human conditions.

But the true Father God gives out everything unconditionally while mankind still rejects it.

The point is that the rejection is futile and will fail,

while salvation is eternal and it will succeed for all,

so for people to keep choosing wrong is utterly vain and people will fail even in their rejections.

It's not up to us to forgive in the matter of one's salvation. It is up to God. If someone wrongs you then you have an obligation to be forgiving. This has no role whatsoever in a person's salvation.

It's laid out plain and clear that you must accept Christ as your Lord and Savior as 2A has tried to show. You continue to reject these very basic premises all for your own personal purposes. You accuse 2A of putting his own conditions on forgiveness while, at the same time, putting your own conditions on salvation. Nothing could be more self-serving. You must get on your knees and beg God to forgive you of your sins, ask Christ to come into your life and work towards an end that will allow you to stop sinning.

But you live in a "I want something for nothing" world where you expect to be paid without doing to the work. This may work well in our ever-growing socialist, free-hand-out, the government will provide all our needs society but it wont work for God. You can play this little game all day long, but this game rejects the foundation of our salvation. You will lose the game.