Repentance

[JPC sr]

Batman

It's laid out plain and clear that you must accept Christ as your Lord and Savior as 2A has tried to show.

It is not laid out plain and clear in your twisted interpretation,

but it is plain and clear in the link HERE Matthew 5:43-48.

By forgiveness anyone can be perfect.

No person (not even one) can remain lost or unsaved when God loves his enemies.

It can not get much more plain and clear then that. The cross is for us sinners.

What you guys are doing is just believing what you have been told instead of seeking the truth yourselves.

Other people and Preachers tell me stuff too and I check it all out for right and wrongs.

We each must scrutinize all Orthodoxy and all doctrine and follow as we believe and not as told.

 

[RadioPatrol]

I am not officially a Muslim or any other religion, so I consider myself a Christian first (Christian by my interpretation) and I like all other religions barring none. I love the Bible and the Quran and the Noble Truths of the Buddha and the Tao Te Ching and the Bhagavad-Gita and all other religions. Even the Shaman religions have much to offer one seeking the truth and seeking God. And the so-called Devil worshipers base it on the Othodox version of the Devil and Satan and so they have the Devil wrong and their groups still have much value in them. Even the Devil gets saved in the end.

Ever seen the mummy where the little weasel Beni 1st meets "The Mummy" Imhotep he starts chanting different religious phrases holding up one symbol after another ..... hoping to save his miserable life

kinda reminds me of JPC ...........

 

[PsyOps]

It is not laid out plain and clear in your twisted interpretation,

but it is plain and clear in the link HERE Matthew 5:43-48.

By forgiveness anyone can be perfect.

No person (not even one) can remain lost or unsaved when God loves his enemies.

It can not get much more plain and clear then that. The cross is for us sinners.

What you guys are doing is just believing what you have been told instead of seeking the truth yourselves.

Other people and Preachers tell me stuff too and I check it all out for right and wrongs.

We each must scrutinize all Orthodoxy and all doctrine and follow as we believe and not as told.

Okay, oh perfect one... Have you forgiven George W. Bush for all he has done to the world?

And if God loved his enemies then how is it in the end his enemies meet their end:

The Devil who had led them astray was thrown into the pool of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them. I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire... Revelations 20:10-15

This is what I have been told because it comes from the Word of God. Where does your falacy come from?

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

Okay, oh perfect one... Have you forgiven George W. Bush for all he has done to the world?

Forgiveness in this world is different then God forgiving. In this world one must repent and then maybe forgiveness. In this world everybody reaps what we sow. To be saved now means to be saved from the evils of this present world and not that mystical salvation after death. Bush needs to be removed from power and the sooner the better. Plus if it was up to me then Bush would be tried and I say convicted of war mongering and of war crimes. He might be saved in the ever after but for now we need justice.

And if God loved his enemies then how is it in the end his enemies meet their end:

This is what I have been told because it comes from the Word of God. Where does your falacy come from?

My stuff comes from all scripture world wide but I try to use only the Bible for those stuck in one demension.

The Bible text you quoted from Revelations link HERE are harder to interpret because it is written by a pretender in John the Diviner, but still the answer is clear.

The Devil and false prophet are tormented by loosing their place and their authority and are left powerless and subordinate to the children of God, thus they will be harmless after becoming powerless and thus forgiving then is easy.

Then the lake of fire is the second death and the second death means life in Christ link HERE.

Note particularly how Paul tells that death to sin (second death) means life ever after.

These are just Bible teachings so I must add that my own religion beliefs go much more deep then this.

 

[PsyOps]

Forgiveness in this world is different then God forgiving. In this world one must repent and then maybe forgiveness. In this world everybody reaps what we sow. To be saved now means to be saved from the evils of this present world and not that mystical salvation after death. Bush needs to be removed from power and the sooner the better. Plus if it was up to me then Bush would be tried and I say convicted of war mongering and of war crimes. He might be saved in the ever after but for now we need justice.

Wait a minute! You wrote here … “Christ paid the penalty in full (not partial) and so all sins are forgiven and paid. The very idea that even one person might burn in Hell is contrary to the price paid at the cross.” Then you said here “There is no conditions or requirements as it is a free gift from unconditional love to all of humanity.” If Christ paid the penalty and there are no conditions then why do we need to repent? And you have said it over and over that Jesus saves all of us and that all of us are going to heaven because Jesus died for all of our sins. Well, then there is no need to repent. You’re all over the place man and really don’t have a clue what you are talking about do you?

Anyway, you never answered my question. In light of your comment about 2A “It is people like 2A here that refuse to forgive their fellow man, except by human conditions.” I asked if you have forgiven Bush for all he has done to you and us, and you did not answer. So I’ll ask again… Do you forgive Bush?

And you said he needs justice… Well, there’s an interesting concept coming from you. Do the terrorists need justice? Did Saddam need justice? Or are they innocent of their “war mongering” (I didn’t know that was an actual crime) and war crimes?

My stuff comes from all scripture world wide but I try to use only the Bible for those stuck in one demension. The Bible text you quoted from Revelations are harder to interpret because it is written by a pretender in John the Diviner, but still the answer is clear. The Devil and false prophet are tormented by loosing their place and their authority and are left powerless and subordinate to the children of God, thus they will be harmless after becoming powerless and thus forgiving then is easy.

Then the lake of fire is the second death and the second death means life in Christ

Note particularly how Paul tells that death to sin (second death) means life ever after. These are just Bible teachings so I must add that my own religion beliefs go much more deep then this.

Your “stuff” comes from where? Can you be more specific? Your “religion beliefs” go much deeper than what? Distorting the Word and Truth of God? I provided a passage from Revelations that you summarily condemned as a lie then went on to substantiate the very words of that passage by providing a passage from Romans. It’s clear throughout the Bible – and you have been provided passage after passage – that not everyone makes it into heaven. It's also clear that you want to root through “worldwide” sources to substantiate your distorted view of God in a self-serving way.

You want God to fit into your nice little neatly defined world; a world that you have defined based on your rebellion for the law, rejection of any moral foundation and personal responsibility. Sorry to inform you, God does not fit into your mold. But you will reject everything I have just written and keep up with your antics. You're fooling no one.

 

[Toxick]

He might be saved in the ever after but for now we need justice.

The Bible text you quoted from Revelations link HERE are harder to interpret because it is written by a pretender in John the Diviner, but still the answer is clear.

Are you - YOU - calling someone a false prophet?

Then the lake of fire is the second death and the second death means life in Christ link HERE.

I read the link you provided. I saw nothing equating Life in Christ as Lake of Fire. All I saw was a passage explaining that Christ's death and resurrection provide Grace over Law (contrasting with the Old Testament), and that Grace shouldn't be taken lightly or taken for granted (i.e. Salvation is not a license for sin). I got absolutely nothing about second deaths or lakes of fire.

I've been studying the bible, and particularly Christian Eschaton (among other versions of eschatology) for quite some time now. I've read essays and theories and dissertations by scholors and philosphers much more intelligent and profound than you or I. I've read theories by men who have spent their entire lives examining and bandying about the symbols and styles by various biblical prophets, Old and New Testaments alike.

And during this time I have never - and I mean NEVER - heard "Life in Christ" symbolically referenced as "Lake of Fire".

These are just Bible teachings so I must add that my own religion beliefs go much more deep then this.

Oh - all this time, I thought you believed yourself a Christian.

So you're saying that you're a 'Christian Plus'.


Good luck with that.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

If Christ paid the penalty and there are no conditions then why do we need to repent?

Well, then there is no need to repent. You’re all over the place man and really don’t have a clue what you are talking about do you?

It is because Orthodoxy has confused what "repentance" means.

The reality is that we must repent first and foremost to our fellow man (or woman) and then it is just a formality in repenting to God,

see Link HERE. God forgives us but we must repent to our fellow man.

The idea that we might say it to a Priest or in prayer to God and not to the other people is absurd.

Anyway, you never answered my question. In light of your comment about 2A “It is people like 2A here that refuse to forgive their fellow man, except by human conditions.” I asked if you have forgiven Bush for all he has done to you and us, and you did not answer. So I’ll ask again… Do you forgive Bush?

Sorry if my reply did not give clear answer,

so no, I do not forgive Bush because he is not repentant and the tyrant is still doing his immoral dirty work of war mongering and war crimes and other offences.

On Judgement Day then God forgives him and saves him but he will still be scorned by others and more-so by himself to himself with weeping and nashing of teeth.

But he still has time to repent in this world, or else it will be pitiful repentance in the next world when we all see the reality and truth.

And you said he needs justice… Well, there’s an interesting concept coming from you. Do the terrorists need justice? Did Saddam need justice? Or are they innocent of their “war mongering” (I didn’t know that was an actual crime) and war crimes?

Justice and vengeance might look similar but they are far different.

IMO, Saddam Hussein did not recieve justice from his accussers nor his executioners.

The Bush administration has captured some of the so-called terrorist and they do not get their rights and are mistreated so I would not call that being justice.

So catching and killing the other people is not a decent idea of justice at all.

Your “stuff” comes from where? Can you be more specific? Your “religion beliefs” go much deeper than what? Distorting the Word and Truth of God?

My religious beliefs come from all religions of the whole world and other sources too.

Here is a link to a free book that I value called: The United States and Britain in Prophesy.

They send it free at no cost and no obligation and they will not pester anyone at all.

I provided a passage from Revelations that you summarily condemned as a lie then went on to substantiate the very words of that passage by providing a passage from Romans.

I did not call the book of Revelations a lie even though it is highly questionable.

What I did say was that death to sin (as Paul described) is the second death that Revelations refers to.

It’s clear throughout the Bible – and you have been provided passage after passage – that not everyone makes it into heaven.

No body goes to Heaven or Hell.

The gospel message was the Kingdom coming to earth as it is in Heaven, thats Heaven on earth and not people in Heaven.

It was Satan that wants to be seated on high and it will not happen for us either.

The lion shall lie down with the lamb is a Kingdom on earth and not in Heaven.

You're fooling no one.

It is correct that I am fooling no one,

but people are still fooled and it is not by me.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

I read the link you provided. I saw nothing equating Life in Christ as Lake of Fire.

I got absolutely nothing about second deaths or lakes of fire.

I have never - and I mean NEVER - heard "Life in Christ" symbolically referenced as "Lake of Fire".

What I did say was that the "death to sin" that Paul wrote of, is the "second death" that Revelations" refers to.

It is really quite simple once one sees that Christ paid the price for all and so everyone is forgiven.

Oh - all this time, I thought you believed yourself a Christian.

So you're saying that you're a 'Christian Plus'.


Good luck with that.

I do not accept that Orthodoxy has full claim to the title of "Christian" and all un-Orthodox are not.

But I tell this true, that I like the call of "Christian Plus" and that describes me nicely.

So if I remember then from now on I am Christian plus.

Rock and roll.

 

[Toxick]

It is really quite simple once one sees that Christ paid the price for all and so everyone is forgiven.

Everyone is forgiven, true.

But one must accept Grace. And therein lies your constant denial. However, I haven't been arguing this point with you and I don't intend to start now. I'd rather do something less painful with my time. Like twisting a corkscrew through my knuckles.

But I tell this true, that I like the call of "Christian Plus" and that describes me nicely.

So if I remember then from now on I am Christian plus.

I have terms that describe you even more accurately.

 

[Toxick]

Ever read anything from Alan Bauer we worked together a couple of years ago, we had some interesting... talks (lol).

No, but I followed the link. When I have more time, I'll review that site a little more thoroughly. Looks like some interesting reading.

Actually we got along really well, we kept our "talks" within guidelines since we still had to work together

I imagine the Carville/Matalin household has the same guidelines.

 

[Toxick]

Yes ¿

Different Knuckles.


But if you like corkscrews....

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

Everyone is forgiven, true.

But one must accept Grace.

Damn, you are just determined to fry some enemies in Hell.

 

[Toxick]

Damn, you are just determined to fry some enemies in Hell.

I am?

I didn't even know I had enemies.




I will have to be more alert.

 

[PsyOps]

It is because Orthodoxy has confused what "repentance" means.

The reality is that we must repent first and foremost to our fellow man (or woman) and then it is just a formality in repenting to God,

see Link HERE. God forgives us but we must repent to our fellow man.

The idea that we might say it to a Priest or in prayer to God and not to the other people is absurd.

From the same chapter in Matthew: “But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you… For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same?”

Repentance is to God, not each other. Repentance is of our sinful nature, not about any specific sin or wrongdoing towards another. We are charged to love and forgive those that have caused us harm even if they aren’t repentant. Jesus did so much with the prostitute when she was about to be stoned to death. He condemned those that were going to condemn her while giving her forgiveness even before she was repentant. He did so much with Matthew. Matthew was regarded as the most wretched among the Jews yet Jesus went to his house; Matthew was unrepentant yet Jesus took him in as one of his disciples. Jesus put no such conditions on his love and forgiveness except that we only believe in Him and through that belief we would learn to repent of our sins. This we don’t owe to each other; we owe this to God who gave us life.

Sorry if my reply did not give clear answer, so no, I do not forgive Bush because he is not repentant and the tyrant is still doing his immoral dirty work of war mongering and war crimes and other offences. On Judgement Day then God forgives him and saves him but he will still be scorned by others and more-so by himself to himself with weeping and nashing of teeth. But he still has time to repent in this world, or else it will be pitiful repentance in the next world when we all see the reality and truth.

You exemplify that which you accuse 2A of being. You demand 2A to be forgiving yet you are not willing to do the same. If you believe Bush is so evil then you must pray for him and show him the love you claim you have through Christ (and your other so-called sources of religion). Fact is, as I stated before, you have designed religion around your own purpose, to fit what works for you as if God could be molded into a JPC cast. Atheists don’t even distort God’s Word this badly.

Justice and vengeance might look similar but they are far different. IMO, Saddam Hussein did not recieve justice from his accussers nor his executioners. The Bush administration has captured some of the so-called terrorist and they do not get their rights and are mistreated so I would not call that being justice. So catching and killing the other people is not a decent idea of justice at all.

What would justice have been for Saddam? It was the Iraqi people that tried, sentenced and executed Saddam, not Bush. I’m going to say that, on every level, justice is vengeance. It’s a means for repaying for someone violating the law and harming others. Nevertheless, there are terrorists out there that want/ed to harm us: Bin Laden, Saddam, al Zawahiri, the list is long… Are you saying none of them deserve justice for killing thousands of innocent people?

My religious beliefs come from all religions of the whole world and other sources too. Here is a link to a free book that I value called: The United States and Britain in Prophesy. They send it free at no cost and no obligation and they will not pester anyone at all. I did not call the book of Revelations a lie even though it is highly questionable. What I did say was that death to sin (as Paul described) is the second death that Revelations refers to.

You wrote yourself: “The Bible text you quoted from Revelations are harder to interpret because it is written by a pretender in John the Diviner”. What is a pretender JPC? It’s a liar. In other words the book was written by a liar making the book a lie.

No body goes to Heaven or Hell. The gospel message was the Kingdom coming to earth as it is in Heaven, thats Heaven on earth and not people in Heaven. It was Satan that wants to be seated on high and it will not happen for us either. The lion shall lie down with the lamb is a Kingdom on earth and not in Heaven.

Revelations 21:

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, God's dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them… But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Be careful what you believe JPC.

It is correct that I am fooling no one, but people are still fooled and it is not by me.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

I am?

I didn't even know I had enemies.

I will have to be more alert.

I guess the self righteous can not have "enemies" since the Book specifically says to love thy enemies.

So who do you call those in Hell?

Are they your friends? your peers? your fellow man? your chattle? or are they your God's waste?

or do you suppose the souls in Hell are your God's enemies?

Here on earth people turn away from the world's injustices and pretend they do not know,

so do you say in your paradise that same gutless indifference to the pain of others will continue in the after life?

Do you think that the sufferings of Hell might be greater then that of the cross?

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

Repentance is to God, not each other. Repentance is of our sinful nature, not about any specific sin or wrongdoing towards another.

It is a two edged sword that cuts both ways.

There is a repentance to each other and then a repentance to God. You are just cutting out the one side that matters most.

We are charged to love and forgive those that have caused us harm even if they aren’t repentant.

To love yes, but forgive in this world is not without repentance, link HERE, ans more-so link HERE.

Jesus did so much with the prostitute when she was about to be stoned to death. He condemned those that were going to condemn her while giving her forgiveness even before she was repentant.

That is condemnation that he was criticizing and not their lack of forgiving. It would be unjust to forgive an unrepentant prostitute but it would be a greater injustice to stone her to death. When Jesus forgave he said "go and sin no more" because otherwise the sins start over again.

He did so much with Matthew. Matthew was regarded as the most wretched among the Jews yet Jesus went to his house; Matthew was unrepentant yet Jesus took him in as one of his disciples. Jesus put no such conditions on his love and forgiveness except that we only believe in Him and through that belief we would learn to repent of our sins.

Matthew repented, surely he did not continue in sin.

This we don’t owe to each other; we owe this to God who gave us life.

It is a two edged sword that cuts both ways.

Christ said to FIRST go repent to thy brother and then to God, link HERE.

You exemplify that which you accuse 2A of being. You demand 2A to be forgiving yet you are not willing to do the same. If you believe Bush is so evil then you must pray for him and show him the love you claim you have through Christ (and your other so-called sources of religion).

That is just the do-nothing preaching of Orthodoxy.

Pray for God to do it but they do nothing themselves.

President Bush is a war criminal and if it were up to me then he would be prosecuted.

Fact is, as I stated before, you have designed religion around your own purpose, to fit what works for you as if God could be molded into a JPC cast. Atheists don’t even distort God’s Word this badly.

I like atheist, and I say many atheist are closer to the reality (God) then are many Orthodox Christians.

What would justice have been for Saddam? It was the Iraqi people that tried, sentenced and executed Saddam, not Bush. I’m going to say that, on every level, justice is vengeance. It’s a means for repaying for someone violating the law and harming others. Nevertheless, there are terrorists out there that want/ed to harm us: Bin Laden, Saddam, al Zawahiri, the list is long… Are you saying none of them deserve justice for killing thousands of innocent people?

Since you wrongfully define justice as vengeance then I do not agree with any part of you claims.

The Muslims have every right to defend and fight back against the violent and immoral attacks against them.

You wrote yourself: “The Bible text you quoted from Revelations are harder to interpret because it is written by a pretender in John the Diviner”. What is a pretender JPC? It’s a liar. In other words the book was written by a liar making the book a lie.

Be careful what you believe JPC.

I do not call the Pretender to be a liar as maybe the lies came long after he was dead.

Plus I kind of like the nonsense that Catholic scholars declare, that the questionable books of the Bible might have been inspirered deceptions.

Like God will honor the false books and make them fit in just for the benefit of the weaker believers.

 

[Toxick]

I guess the self righteous can not have "enemies" since the Book specifically says to love thy enemies.

So who do you call those in Hell?

Are they your friends? your peers? your fellow man? your chattle? or are they your God's waste?

or do you suppose the souls in Hell are your God's enemies?

You may have noticed...

No, I guess you haven't noticed, otherwise you wouldn't be spouting such drivel at me. So, let me rephrase:

Before you attempt to call me to account, you should notice that I, personally, have always refrained from judging others. NOT ONCE in this forum, or any forum, will you find me condemning someone to hell. NOT ONCE will you find me say that I think someone (or group of someones) is going to hell. And you certainly won't find me saying that I HOPE someone ends up in hell. (Not in serious discourse anyway, although I have said such things sarcastically.)

It is not me who determines who goes to hell or heaven. I have never presumed to have knowledge or power regarding the hereafter. The Good Book laid out the criteria, it's up to others if they want to follow that criteria or not. As far as I'm concerned, I don't waste my time trying to determine who goes down, or who gets on the elevator up. That's not my job, and frankly I have enough problems worrying about myself, without concerning myself with the beliefs or the final destinations others.

The only thing I pointed out in this thread is that you are twisting the Word of God to suit your own preconceived ideals. And I stand by that assertion.

And you, my friend, also have enough problems of your own, whether you choose to admit it or not, so when you fire off some judgmental crap at me like this:

so do you say in your paradise that same gutless indifference to the pain of others will continue in the after life?

Do you think that the sufferings of Hell might be greater then that of the cross?

... then I kindly invite you to take your presumptuous ass somewhere else. Like in front of a mirror.

 

[PsyOps]

It is a two edged sword that cuts both ways. There is a repentance to each other and then a repentance to God. You are just cutting out the one side that matters most.

Are you trying to tell me we are more accountable to each other than to God? Perhaps you haven’t read Luke 18:29-30: “Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God who will not receive an overabundant return in this present age and eternal life in the age to come.” What matters most is our accountability to God.

To love yes, but forgive in this world is not without repentance.

Yes, if someone is repentant of their sin then you must forgive them. But Jesus took this one step further by saying:

“But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust"… Mathew 5:44-45.

There are no conditions on forgiveness of each other. We are to forgive even when being persecuted.

That is condemnation that he was criticizing and not their lack of forgiving. It would be unjust to forgive an unrepentant prostitute but it would be a greater injustice to stone her to death. When Jesus forgave he said "go and sin no more" because otherwise the sins start over again.

It’s not up to you to decide what is just or unjust in the eyes of the Lord? Before the prostitute could even say a word Jesus asked her "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She replied, "No one, sir." Then Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more." Jesus forgave her even though she was not repentant. Were Jesus’ actions unjust? He did this time and time again when he healed. He demanded that they sin no more (which is repentance to God). Ultimately our sin is against God’s will:

“This is the will of God, your holiness: that you refrain from immorality, that each of you know how to acquire a wife for himself in holiness and honor, not in lustful passion as do the Gentiles who do not know God; not to take advantage of or exploit a brother in this matter, for the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you before and solemnly affirmed. For God did not call us to impurity but to holiness. Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not a human being but God, who (also) gives his holy Spirit to you”… 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8

Although we need to be accountable to each other and not harm each other, ultimately we are accountable to God.

It is a two edged sword that cuts both ways. Christ said to FIRST go repent to thy brother and then to God.

Now you are talking about someone who has committed the sin, desiring forgiveness. If you do wrong to someone God does want you to seek the person you’ve done wrong to first. What good is it to ask God for forgiveness that you have not asked the person you’ve sinned against first? If you truly believe you’ve done something wrong against someone you will ask that person for forgiveness. It’s just the order of things. That has nothing to do with whether you can forgive someone before they are unrepentant. You demand this much from 2A, yet don’t follow it yourself.

That is just the do-nothing preaching of Orthodoxy. Pray for God to do it but they do nothing themselves. President Bush is a war criminal and if it were up to me then he would be prosecuted.

This is nothing more that justifying your hate for someone. It doesn’t matter much to me what I believe Bush will do for himself; I believe God can work things through others. Not to mention you don’t know the first thing about what is in Bush’s heart. And you imply that “criminals” can’t be forgiven by God so therefore the almighty JPC will not forgive. You seem to not be able to separate the spiritual aspect of this discussion from the worldly aspect.

I like atheist, and I say many atheist are closer to the reality (God) then are many Orthodox Christians.

That’s just an oxymoron and doesn’t deserve any other response.

Since you wrongfully define justice as vengeance then I do not agree with any part of you claims. The Muslims have every right to defend and fight back against the violent and immoral attacks against them.

Definition of vengeance: “Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.” Enough said about that. I don’t blame Muslims for their hatred toward us. I blame them for making innocent people (especially women and children) the TARGET of their hatred.

I do not call the Pretender to be a liar as maybe the lies came long after he was dead. Plus I kind of like the nonsense that Catholic scholars declare, that the questionable books of the Bible might have been inspirered deceptions. Like God will honor the false books and make them fit in just for the benefit of the weaker believers.

The fact that you see the books of the Bible as false speaks clearly about your deceived position on these matters. You twist words around to suit your purpose. You take scripture out of context. You use the Bible to try to substantiate your point then go on to say “that the questionable books of the Bible might have been inspirered deceptions.”

As I said before, you’re fooling no one, but yourself.

 

[smoothmarine187]

I think you bible bangers are even a little more crazy than the horse riders

 

[PsyOps]

The only thing I pointed out in this thread is that you are twisting the Word of God to suit your own preconceived ideals.

I honestly don't think JPC has any ideals that can be defined..... at least in the conventional sense.