School shootings

[ylexot]

This is why a MAN should always be the Prez......



:hopingicanoutrunher:

 

[harleygirl]

I think if the idea of teaching survival skills to children in case of a shooting situation at a school will take some of the fear out of it. Soooo many kids are sheltered these days.......parents that say "I will not let my kid watch the news, they can only see G rated movies, I turn the channel if the discussion of pervs are on t.v. You over 35-somethings should remember this.........when I was in elementary school, we had air-raid drills. We had to either hide under our desks or kneel down in the hall when the warning sirens sounded, in case the big bomb was dropped. It was normal routine to me, I knew why I did it, and was never afraid.

 

[Fubar]

I think if the idea of teaching survival skills to children in case of a shooting situation at a school will take some of the fear out of it. Soooo many kids are sheltered these days.......parents that say "I will not let my kid watch the news, they can only see G rated movies, I turn the channel if the discussion of pervs are on t.v. You over 35-somethings should remember this.........when I was in elementary school, we had air-raid drills. We had to either hide under our desks or kneel down in the hall when the warning sirens sounded, in case the big bomb was dropped. It was normal routine to me, I knew why I did it, and was never afraid.

We also had a healthy fear and respect for the principal, teachers and classmates!

 

[itsbob]

Agreed.

Do you really think that's possible?

Tell me, why don't all the prisoners in all of our prisons just run out?

Why not forget about guns altogether in the War in Iraq? We can just rush em' with 1,000 men at once!

...I wonder if they'll mow us.

Running across an open field or through the woods for 1/4 mile is different then a 20 by 20 classroom, and most of these cowards like to get close so you can sense the fear.

The hard part is to react at the very start, as soon as he comes in the door.. he has the advantage of surprize, and at that point it's total chaos, anyone at this point can win. The intruder expects complacency, and his wil be done, but if he gets thirty text boooks in his face, he will be the victim of surprize.

You can't wait for him to have everyone lined up next to the dry-erase board, with ropes around their hands and feet.

 

[RoseRed]

* In Philadelphia, the first part of this school year brought the suspensions of 22 kindergartners.
* Minneapolis schools have suspended more than 500 kindergartners over the past two school years for fighting, indecent exposure and "persistent lack of co-operation," among other offenses. Statewide, Minnesota schools have suspended nearly 4,000 kindergartners, first- and second- graders, most for fighting, disorderly conduct and the like.
* In Massachusetts, the percentage of suspended students in prekindergarten through third grade more than doubled between 1995 and 2000, while that of suspended high-schoolers dropped in every grade but 12th. High school students still accounted for 56% of all out-of-school suspensions, while the younger students accounted for about 5%.
* In 2001-2002, Greenville, S.C., schools suspended 132 first-graders, 75 kindergartners and two preschoolers.
Need I go on??

Good stats. I think part of the change is society and a lot of parents that are not active in their parenting jobs, so the kids run amok. They learn by example (bad parents) and TV when left to their own devices.

I am very involved with my daughter and her activities so I don't see her as becoming a problem. Same goes for Pete and Boy. He is a very active father and parent to him.

Zero tolerance may be another factor. When I was a kid, it was no big deal for toy guns to be brought to school for show and tell and kids played cops and robbers and it wasn't though about twice.

 

[BuddyLee]

Buddy it is apples and oranges. Prisoners do not attack because they are not locked in one big room with a guard. Where are they going to go? There are other armed guards there who will shoot them on sight.

Next, they don't all have something in common. Not all want to escape, all the kids want to survive.

A school intruder does not have any illusion of "escaping". Most are going to commit suicide anyway.

It's a blown up scale of the situation.

As an individual deemed by society as 'dangerous' they are locked away in many rooms, not one. However, if confined in one room such as a luncheon or yard area they do have a greater chance to seize one or more rooms. Who wants to be the first punk to get shot though?

The kids want to survive just as much as the prisoners, they are all living beings. Furthermore, the kids aren't all thinking on the same level (yet). If John-Boy wants to rush, he might need a little help from Pete and Bob to subdue the intruder.

 

[BuddyLee]

Running across an open field or through the woods for 1/4 mile is different then a 20 by 20 classroom, and most of these cowards like to get close so you can sense the fear.

The hard part is to react at the very start, as soon as he comes in the door.. he has the advantage of surprize, and at that point it's total chaos, anyone at this point can win. The intruder expects complacency, and his wil be done, but if he gets thirty text boooks in his face, he will be the victim of surprize.

You can't wait for him to have everyone lined up next to the dry-erase board, with ropes around their hands and feet.

I really like the idea but I just cannot see it happening realistically, at least not yet. Can you point out a school-shooting case where it has happened yet?

 

[itsbob]

It's a blown up scale of the situation.

As an individual deemed by society as 'dangerous' they are locked away in many rooms, not one. However, if confined in one room such as a luncheon or yard area they do have a greater chance to seize one or more rooms. Who wants to be the first punk to get shot though?

The kids want to survive just as much as the prisoners, they are all living beings. Furthermore, the kids aren't all thinking on the same level (yet). If John-Boy wants to rush, he might need a little help from Pete and Bob to subdue the intruder.

OK, you're a prisoner, you take control of the lunch room.. now what?

You are still locked in a HUGE building, with 4 or more phases of locked doors and securtity to get through. Now you have HUNDREDS of armed people either looking down on you from a gun gallery, or awaiting your next move outside. WHat have you gained?

You haven't gained freedom, you haven't survived an attack, and if you do survive you don't get to walk out the front door of the prison to your mommy and daddy's waiting arms. The only thing you have awaiting you is more jail time. or a 5.56 round from an unseen guard.

When talking about armed assailants at a school you are usually talking about a single person, not a full out assault with a hundred cops armed with shotguns and m-16's. This one person is the one thing between you, death, or mommy and daddy's waiting arms.

Apples and oranges.

 

[Sharon]

Sharon's thinks I'm an idjit!!

You finally got something right.

 

[itsbob]

I really like the idea but I just cannot see it happening realistically, at least not yet. Can you point out a school-shooting case where it has happened yet?

Actually the best one was just last week. It wan't a kid, it was an adult.. attacked the gunman as soon as he saw the gun. He stopped the gun man, took the gun, he gave his life in the attack, but he may have saved several.
It worked.

 

[BuddyLee]

OK, you're a prisoner, you take control of the lunch room.. now what?

You are still locked in a HUGE building, with 4 or more phases of locked doors and securtity to get through. Now you have HUNDREDS of armed people either looking down on you from a gun gallery, or awaiting your next move outside. WHat have you gained?

You haven't gained freedom, you haven't survived an attack, and if you do survive you don't get to walk out the front door of the prison to your mommy and daddy's waiting arms. The only thing you have awaiting you is more jail time. or a 5.56 round from an unseen guard.

When talking about armed assailants at a school you are usually talking about a single person, not a full out assault with a hundred cops armed with shotguns and m-16's. This one person is the one thing between you, death, or mommy and daddy's waiting arms.

Apples and oranges.

The point has been missed here. Here tis: As a prisoner you don't want to rush the armed guards for fear of being shot and subsequently perishing from this earth.

As a student in a classroom, you don't want to rush the armed intruder(s) for fear of being shot and subsequently perishing from this earth.

Forget the surrounding environment, there is no debate with that. A prison to a school classroom IS apples and oranges and is not what is up for debate.

What IS up for debate is one's willingness to take the first shot, which has still yet to be answered rationally.

 

[canuk woman]

So on the news tonight they had a story of a Texas (I think) where the school district is teaching the kids to attack the intruder. Throw things as hard as they can.

Boy was sitting here and listened and said "Well that is stupid, they will get shot." I told him "If someone comes into your school with a gun, they came to kill kids not read you a story." He thought about it for a minute but I don't think he is convinced.

So my next thought is that we have gone so far in rearing a generation of pacifists that they are perfectly ok with sitting there and letting someone pick them off. How horrifying is that ?

If we have learned anything we have learned that kids go into schools with guns to kill other kids. If 25 kids and a teacher attack the scumbag instead of sitting there like sheep waiting to be slaughtered 1. It may keep all the kids from being slaughtered. 2. It will make the idea of going to school to pick off as many as they can undesirable and unrealistic if they know the kids/staff are going to attack them and possibly catch them before they can take the chickenshiat out of killing themselves.

Suddenly I'm too afraid to go to school.

 

[Geek]

The point has been missed here. Here tis: As a prisoner you don't want to rush the armed guards for fear of being shot and subsequently perishing from this earth.

As a student in a classroom, you don't want to rush the armed intruder(s) for fear of being shot and subsequently perishing from this earth.

Forget the surrounding environment, there is no debate with that. A prison to a school classroom IS apples and oranges and is not what is up for debate.

What IS up for debate is one's willingness to take the first shot, which has still yet to be answered rationally.

What if you could see him coming? What about a security camera and walkie talkies in every class room? How about armed deputies at every school? There is nothing more important then protecting the kids. Right now they are bait for these screwed up cowards.

 

[itsbob]

The point has been missed here. Here tis: As a prisoner you don't want to rush the armed guards for fear of being shot and subsequently perishing from this earth.

As a student in a classroom, you don't want to rush the armed intruder(s) for fear of being shot and subsequently perishing from this earth.

Forget the surrounding environment, there is no debate with that. A prison to a school classroom IS apples and oranges and is not what is up for debate.

What IS up for debate is one's willingness to take the first shot, which has still yet to be answered rationally.

It is apples and oranges, a prisoner gains nothing by attacking a guard, a schoolchild gains life and freedom.

It's has to be a GROUP decision, something the kids are readied for, trained to do. Sitting passiviely thinking "It won't happen here" is NOT the right attitude, you have to think what if it DOES happen. When I was a kid we were taught to hide under our desks at the sound of a Nuke alarm, and we all reacted immediatly.. practice having an intruder rushing into the classroom, and see how fast kids can empty their desks at him/her.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

I like the idea myself. I know if I were still in school and an intruder entered the building, I'd probably be the first mother ####er to die because I'm going after him.

 

[Geek]

It is apples and oranges, a prisoner gains nothing by attacking a guard, a schoolchild gains life and freedom.

It's has to be a GROUP decision, something the kids are readied for, trained to do. Sitting passiviely thinking "It won't happen here" is NOT the right attitude, you have to think what if it DOES happen. When I was a kid we were taught to hide under our desks at the sound of a Nuke alarm, and we all reacted immediatly.. practice having an intruder rushing into the classroom, and see how fast kids can empty their desks at him/her.

Great idea. Maybe the local police can help with that

 

[ylexot]

What if you could see him coming? What about a security camera and walkie talkies in every class room? How about armed deputies at every school? There is nothing more important then protecting the kids. Right now they are bait for these screwed up cowards.

None of those things will protect people who are unwilling to protect themselves.

 

[Geek]

I like the idea myself. I know if I were still in school and an intruder entered the building, I'd probably be the first mother ####er to die because I'm going after him.

 

[BuddyLee]

What if you could see him coming? What about a security camera and walkie talkies in every class room? How about armed deputies at every school? There is nothing more important then protecting the kids. Right now they are bait for these screwed up cowards.

All fine by me.

 

[Pete]

The point has been missed here. Here tis: As a prisoner you don't want to rush the armed guards for fear of being shot and subsequently perishing from this earth.

As a student in a classroom, you don't want to rush the armed intruder(s) for fear of being shot and subsequently perishing from this earth.

Forget the surrounding environment, there is no debate with that. A prison to a school classroom IS apples and oranges and is not what is up for debate.

What IS up for debate is one's willingness to take the first shot, which has still yet to be answered rationally.

The point you are missing here is a prisoner will live if he doesn't attempt to take over the room. A student in a classroom with an armed intruder has little chance of surviving because that person went into the school with the explicit intent on killing.