Schools

[SmallTown]

Salaries for teachers...

A new teacher in St. Marys with a standard professional certificate looks to make $34,000 per year, with a max of $48,000. With A Masters degree, you're starting at $36,000 going up to $60,000

In Calvert county, you're looking at a range of $35,000-$50,000 for the standard professional certificate, and with a Masters you're looking at $46,000 to $74,000

Charles county has slightly higher starting salaries than St. Marys, but the top end is a little lower than St. Marys.

Money wise, St. Mary's and Charles are pretty close, but Charles is a lot further down the rating list than St. Marys.

But Calvert has much higher salaries and much higher scores.. Not completely conclusive that money can buy a better education, but it is looking more and more that way. Is a kid growing up in Calvert more deserving of a good education than his counterparts in St. Mary's? Don't think so. But with the tax structure, I don't see how we can really level that playing field so there must be other ways.

 

[Lilly]

For the record I recieved a superb public education here in St. Mary's - but I only credit one or two teachers with getting me through! I agree that our schools aren't exactly the cream of the crop - but they are a lot better now then they were when I attended! The influx of money with the base definitely helped out - even if not as much as many expected! Overall - the kids will still learn if they want to! If you are really worried about the turnout and can't homeschool - I say send them to Ryken!

 

[cattitude]

Ryken

Now, I'm sure I'll get blasted.. but Ryken? I have several friends who sent their "angels" there hoping to avoid the "bad" kids and have their children receive a better quality education. Only thing they're getting is that they are PAYING for the same things (good and bad) that they could've gotten in the public high schools. I think all schools have the same issues, whether you pay a high price or not.

All forms of education, homeschooling, private and public, have good points and bad points and I think it really depends on all the individuals involved and you can get good outcomes from all of the situations.

 

[vraiblonde]

I have to die here for a sec...hold on...


Okay, that's better! It's just that I've never heard Sharon called "small-minded" in all the time she's been on this forum. Okay, I'll settle down now...

Anyway, you're never going to get quality education out of public schools - it's gone too far to be fixed.

Our teachers are so busy trying not to get sued for flunking a kid they don't have time to actually teach. Then there are the administrators who get sued if they fire a crappy teacher. The only thing you can do at this point is work closely with your kid's teacher, maybe volunteer in the classroom or something. Or you could homeschool, if you've the inclination. Every homeschooled kid I know is more mature and better educated than the average public school kid.

 

[bknarw]

When I spent my vacation at the beach last month, there were a bunch of kids there who were also on vacation with their moms.
Kids and animals love me (if I could only find the formula with humans), so every day I would hang out on the beach and help keep the kids entertained. One day I'd give them fishing lessons, another day I took them all to the Marine Museum, etc.
There were three kids there who were homeschooled, and they had, by far, better ability to remember, comprehend, and apply the knowledge that I gave them than those who attended public schools.
Just a snapshot view, I guess, but a case in point nonetheless.

 

[cattitude]

Vrai, you are so right

From 1988 to 1994 I worked for the attorneys who represented the PG County Board of Ed. What an eye opening experience. I mean people sued teachers, bus drivers, janitors, you name it. I never in my life would have believed it if I hadn't seen it first hand. Granted, maybe some were viable lawsuits, but not many.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde

Anyway, you're never going to get quality education out of public schools - it's gone too far to be fixed.

Interesting. So the schools in Montgomery county don't suffer this same problem?

Reminds me of the classic question and answer about the county:
Q- What is the biggest problem in America today, Ignorance or Apathy?

A- I don't know, and I don't care.

 

[Lilly]

Re: Ryken

Originally posted by cattitude
I have several friends who sent their "angels" there hoping to avoid the "bad" kids and have their children receive a better quality education.

There is a point there Cat - a common misconception is that the children at private schools are better behaved both in school and at home. I knew a lot of kids growing up that went to Ryken that were just as big hell-raisers as we! A lot of parents sent thier "troubled" kids to Ryken to try to straighten them out. However, in public school it seems that kids have a better chance of disrupting the class than in private. Private school teachers are given more control over thier classrooms and therfore can keep things in a bit better order. I actually once heard a public school teacher break down and cry to the principal that she just did not get paid enough to deal with a particular child in our class.

 

[vraiblonde]

Couldn't tell you about Montgomery county. All I know is that schools all across America are suffering.

Teaching has been reduced to a "lowly" profession. People think of them as garbage men or waitresses or something. The pencil pushers in the office give them no regard. I personally think that we'd see better education of our children if we treated teachers like the professionals they are. Ditch the bad ones, revere the good ones.

 

[watercolor]

Ok...I must say...from a first hand basis, Great Mills High School..has excellent teachers who are motivated and have major enthusiasm when it comes to the cirriculum and their students. So I dont agree witht he stats that much. I know first hand on how the teachers and staff are. I did not graduate with straight A's but I did do good. Also, it is a part of the students responsiblity to take action in their education also. A teacher can go as far till they are blue in the face, but it also takes effort on the students part also. To many times, I have seen people take what they are given for granted when in the care of a wonderful teacher, and then when reflecting back after flunking that class, and or graduating and not being able to retain that skill that was learned...they are sorry they did not listen and pay attention.

I am telling you this..from a future teacher in the making. That I understand that the stats may not be that high, but it is also surrounding the area that it is located. Now, in regards to Leonardtown High being a centerpoint. You have to think...the tech center is there, not only that, but..it was also one of the first high schools. So therefore, of course it would be a centerpoint. Does not make it any better. Neither are the private schools such as Ryken. I have her terrible terrible things about Ryken. Now am I sure it is true? Dunno..but I almost went there, but turned away fast, cause I did not like the style of the 10 different teachers that I went to that day. (I sat in each class, it was highly unproductive)

So just dont base a book by its cover. I am all for finding out the happenings and such. But Great Mills is not a bad school at all. They are actually a very good school, with wonderful teachers.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
. I personally think that we'd see better education of our children if we treated teachers like the professionals they are. Ditch the bad ones, revere the good ones.

Couldn't agree more

 

[watercolor]

I have 2 viewpoints

In regards to homeschooling. I dont think it is bad. Alot of people have major issues with it. Wether it be for religious issues or not. But I personally look at it as....homeschooling is a way of hanging with your kids, while teaching them the knowledge needed. Also, some people see the corrupt systems and have their children and feel safer with them in the home enviornment.

Now..my contradictory issue that I have is what about the social skills? I am asking about this because I am currious. I have thought about homeschooling my children, (when I have them..gota get there first) but I think about the social interaction skills. Is there a issue with that? I mean in the sense of them learning the boundries of say: sharing, or that they cant pull or hit someone. I guess it comes down to the moral factors of it all..but what about that. I know that my step-dads sister in law homeschools her 3 children..and that is where the view of it not being religious..but more of a spending time withy your children came to play. But she told me that she gets together with other moms and all and that is how they get the social interaction. Just wondering if someone could touch on that a little.

I know I am kinda contradictory of my self...but...I have questions and thoughts on both sides of the fields.

 

[Kyle]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
... Ditch the bad ones, revere the good ones.

It'll never happen. The NEA won't let the locals skim off the flotsum. It dampens their dues collection.

 

[Lilly]

Originally posted by SmallTown


Interesting. So the schools in Montgomery county don't suffer this same problem?

Noooo . . . Montgomery County only ignores low test scores and refuses to work with parents!!

The truth is that the types of tests that feed the statistics as far as which schools are superior mean about diddly! Half the time they don't test the material learned in school - and the other half the teachers spend so much time "teaching the test" that they forget the important things! Don't pay attention to the standardized testing scores. Pay attention to your kids!!

ASK THEM if they are being stimulated, if thier teachers are excited about teaching, and if thier subjects get them excited about learning!! There is no number that can tell you the quality of the education!! Yes, higher paid teachers helps - because they are generally happier with thier jobs - but even high-paid teachers can suck at what they do!

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by watercolor23
Also, it is a part of the students responsiblity to take action in their education also. A teacher can go as far till they are blue in the face, but it also takes effort on the students part also.

Ok. The first stab at the problem revolved around money and how much teachers are paid in a certain area. We could see a consitency with higher dollars meaning higher scores.
But I also agree with that fact that the students themselves as well as the parents need to be motivated to do well.

Originally posted by watercolor23
They are actually a very good school, with wonderful teachers.

Then the problem lies within the student's and parent's motivation, or lack there of? What makes the kids here less motivated to do well in school than ones in Calvert county, and to an even greater degree, Montgomery county?

I think we are keying on some important ideas. Once we get a grip on the actual problem (whether it be money, moitivation, or other reasons) then we can work towards a solution. I am not one to just throw up my hands and give up on the kids or the system. It seems more and more this is what the kids expect of us, and it is hard as hell to get yourself motivated when your own parents or community do not believe in you or the system. If a kid hears someone say "You can't get a decent education at a public school", they will assume you know what you are talking about and feel that they should not even bother trying.. Moral goes down. Confidence goes down.. Scores go down..

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Lilly



The truth is that the types of tests that feed the statistics as far as which schools are superior mean about diddly! Half the time they don't test the material learned in school - and the other half the teachers spend so much time "teaching the test" that they forget the important things! Don't pay attention to the standardized testing scores. Pay attention to your kids!!

You forgot culturally biased..

But anyways, if you visit the website, different factors go into the overall school score. For those who always seem to request information be posted here instead of going and looking at it themselves , here is a list of the 4 factors that contrubute to the school score. (this is the criteria for high schools). I'm not fully clear if the 1st one is a standardized test, or an in-school test. The others have no reference to standardized testing.

1 The percentage of 11th graders who pass all three (Reading, Writing, and Mathematics) tests.

2 The percentage of graduates who go on to attend 4-year colleges.

3 The percentage of graduates who completed course requirements that would qualify them for admission to the University System of Maryland.

4 The percentage of graduates who mastered 4 of the following 6 performance indicators:

Two or more credits in the same foreign language with a grade of B or better;

One or more credits in mathematics courses at a level higher than Algebra II and Geometry with a grade of B or better;

Four credits of science with a grade of B or better;

Two or more credits of approved advanced technology education with a grade of B or better;

A score of 1,000 or higher on SAT-1 or a score of 20 or higher on ACT, or both; and

A cumulative grade point average of 3.0 or higher on a 4.0 scale.

 

[Lilly]

Culturally biased?? Don't give me that crap! That's bull and everyone knows it!! Unless one of the questions is "Are you black or White? Catholic or Jewish? Rich or Poor?" and points are given for the right answer then the damn things aren't culturally biased.

As far as what makes up the score -
1. Even if it is not standardized testing - these scores are most often highly unreliable for the same reasons.

2. Does this take into account kids that attended 2-year community colleges and THEN transferred to a 4 year university?? What about kids that EVENTUALLY went to college - but didn't make it there until 3 or 4 years after graduation? What about those that chose to go to trade schools? There is too many reasons why a kid may not attend a 4 year University (that have nothing to do with the school) to make this a realistic measurement. Let me guess - they give double points for liberal arts education?

3. I actually like this one. Seeing how many kids were capable of going to college rather than how many actually DID. One question though - if we are counting this - why are we counting #2?

4. The only one I like out of this is the last one.
You can't grade schools on the grades of kids in OPTIONAL classes!! If not all of the kids take the classes - then they can't all be held accountable for it. Same with SAT scores - not every kid takes it!!


I am not offering any better solutions here - just saying that I wouldn't put a whole lot on the scoring system when determining where to send your kids.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Lilly
Culturally biased?? Don't give me that crap! That's bull and everyone knows it!! Unless one of the questions is "Are you black or White? Catholic or Jewish? Rich or Poor?" and points are given for the right answer then the damn things aren't culturally biased.

I was actually poking fun.. nevermind..

 

[watercolor]

Smalltown,
You have to understand though. There are kids with all different learning disablities also.So you have to take that in to account when you get those scores also. I personally was in one of the classes, that you HAD to take..that was based strictly around those reading writing and such tests. Mine was in the math. Because, that is not my strong area at all.

All have different aptitudes of learning, and that lack of motivation is one of the highly ranked issues of problems facing the school systems. There are to many parents who dont take part in sitting down with their kids and trying to help with homework...or vise versa the kids are two stuck with their pride to ask for help and or not want to which in turn frustrates them and they either A) drop out, or skip school, dont want to deal with it or B) they struggle and barely make it through the testing, showing that they are not doing good in that area. Also, there are people who have test anxiety disorder, which is a very real thing. And the kids freeze up..and its like they draw a blank.

I personally sucked in geometry. So, I know, there are many people in that field who dont get a B or above. As long as you are passing and understand it to your ability..then that is what matters. Not if you are a B or above. It is the way concive it and if you can apply it correctly so that you can understand. Now if the field you are going to like drafting or a high math related field..then I would think you would need to grasp it better. But then again, I know some people like me...who sucked in math and a couple other subjects..but I am excelling with a 4.0 in college. ANYWAY...back to the subject.

Also, with all the laws that are floating today, there are kids throwing their weight, around. Knowing the boundries that can be crossed with teachers...because they dont think that they have any authority. But then, when the teacher shows they can help the kids today have a MAJOR chip, as above with to much pride to let them be helped.

Those skills test mean dittly...because they are not relevant to the actual teachings of what is happening. History and math and all the basic's are needed. But life skills is a big priority of what they are trying to teach...because they are preparing you for life out side, and skills to live by. So those tests are just for basically telling the kids they are dumb if they dont pass.
Where is the motivation in that?

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Lilly

4. The only one I like out of this is the last one.
You can't grade schools on the grades of kids in OPTIONAL classes!! If not all of the kids take the classes - then they can't all be held accountable for it. Same with SAT scores - not every kid takes it!!

First, it said 4 out of the 6. The only one that is optional is the SAT. Maybe foreign language is optional here as well? I know I got some strange responses as to foreign language studies.

So you have two waivers. Still leaves you four to master. If you fail on of those, then you are screwed. If you had gone the extra mile and did a little more than the minimum, you would have more flexibility. One could argue that the "optional classes" shows which students have the motivation to do more than just get by on the bare minimum. So again we are back to the notion of lack of motivation from our kids and parents.
Because it would seem if they are options, then the kids in calvert and montgomery county could choose not to take them as well, thus lowering their scores. I feel these averages are a decent indicator of the system because each system has the same opportunity to succeed.. And to fail.