Schools

[SmallTown]

I'm not so sure about discounting the school scores. From what I have seen from the test scores back home, as well as what I have heard from people here about the schools, the rankings pretty much fall into place in the same order as people themselves rate the schools. Since the numbers coincide with people's personal feelings about the schools, I would say the scores are can be used as a valid guage. If nothing else, you can eliminate schools to "walkthrough" because no one would have time to go to every school in the area and make valid assumptions on a single visit.

And as I said before, the scores are based on the same criteria around the state. People here have just as much opportunity to score high as any other system. So the original question was how can me make our schools (as much of a smoke screen as it may be) at least appear more competitive? Giving our kids goals to shoot for keeps their drive strong. If many of the kids in Calvert are taking these "optional" or "extra" classes, we need to find out why our kids don't feel the need to do the same? I still have a problem with some of these things in Maryland being optional,but that is a whole different topic. If more kids are deciding on college right when they leave the Calvert schools or Montgomery county schools, we need to look at what makes our kids not want to go right away. Like someone mentioned elsewhere, we have a top notch college right here in St. Mary's, so they are not lacking on local college influence. Are teen pregancies high here, which result in the kids wanting to stay home or work to support them?
Some say they can't afford to go to college. Student loans are what I call reverse-logic loans.. The less money you make, the MORE they allow you to borrow.
Not looking for arguments here. Just looking for solutions.
Education is one of the only things you have that someone can't away from you, so it is one of the best investments a person can make.

 

[watercolor]

Ok well, you know what. I am done. You dont listen to anything. You just keep pushing these "scores". If you are so hell bent on them, then go by what they say. We were simply telling you to try a different tactic..but everything we said it was always to come back to the scores. Enough already.

Obviously you dont want to listen to any of us..so why keep commenting on it. I am simply done with it.

scores scores scores....BAH!!!

Ok now I am done.

 

[Lilly]

I had the same feeling watercolor. SmallTown claims to want a positive discussion about solutions - but all he seems to want to do is argue . . .

 

[SmallTown]

A person who feels they have succeeded must have quit trying.


This is something every "succesfull" person lives by. No matter where you are at, you can always do more.

If you want to throw away test scores, fine. Gone. Going on the first statment, one should always be trying to do more. So regardless of the starting point, there is always room for improvement. So from that point of view, can we discuss how to improve the certain situation? As good or as bad as you may see it..

 

[Ken King]

As not having taken one of the standardized tests in quite some time it would be interesting to see what the results would show for a sampling of parents (or just residents, if they have no school age children) that take the tests. Would test material bias be detected based on the particular demographics of a region?

 

[watercolor]

yea to tell you the truth it would be somewhat interesting to see how well these people do after being in school so long. I know alot of people who have testing and learning disablities out there also. I have test anxiety disorder really bad. I also have a tracking disability. So it makes it difficult...but I excelled...over the right school and the right teachers..
huh?! Imagine That! (<----sarcasam not meant for you Ken)

 

[SmallTown]

Taking standardized tests now is a little different since the ones in school are based on what the state mandates the schools to cover in the classroom. After school, people go into so many different directions. It would be interesting to see the results. But the stats only matter when they are in your favor.

There is actually one standardized test that both kids and parents sometimes take.. The written part of the driver's test. I think they must have waivers for people with excuses of why they did poorly going by the types of people on the road today.. Scary stuff.

 

[fuzzyng]

There are plenty of reasons for these low test scores... administration, teachers, students, parents, janitors, etc... but to have such a bad way to determine a schools successes... why don't they take in the account of students who start freshman year and actually only take 4 years to pass... or how about the fact of lower drop out rates... or how about those who bust their ass and still have problems with tests and grades...? lets see here...

1 The percentage of 11th graders who pass all three (Reading, Writing, and Mathematics) tests.

I pasted my tests my 9th grade year, so okay, one there... +1

2 The percentage of graduates who go on to attend 4-year colleges.

Sorry, I'm broke and wont be seeing a 4 year college... +0

3 The percentage of graduates who completed course requirements that would qualify them for admission to the University System of Maryland.

Is there a list of required courses for qualification, because I don't no, so I'll loos this point too... +0

4 The percentage of graduates who mastered 4 of the following 6 performance indicators:

Two or more credits in the same foreign language with a grade of B or better;

Nope, no can do +0

One or more credits in mathematics courses at a level higher than Algebra II and Geometry with a grade of B or better;

Again, nope, I only took Algy 1, 2, and Geometry +0

[/I]Four credits of science with a grade of B or better;[/I]

3 credits of Science, pardon me +0

Two or more credits of approved advanced technology education with a grade of B or better;

DO I get double points here because I was a Dual Completer at the Tech Center? Graphic Arts & Printing and Data Processing, both 4.0, BOTH top of my class, and I even recieved TOP honors at the Tech Center: the Dohman Award. but, because I'm being good, +1

A score of 1,000 or higher on SAT-1 or a score of 20 or higher on ACT, or both; and

Didn't take either test

[/I]A cumulative grade point average of 3.0 or higher on a 4.0 scale.[/I]

I grad with a 3.2 GPA, so +1

4 The percentage of graduates who mastered 4 of the following 6 performance indicators:

only 2 out of the 6, not even the 4...

So, just because I didn't fall into all of these slots perfectly, I brought down Chopticons score? I find this scoring system BS, and that they need to take into account the real reasons a school is worth is weight in reheated mashed potatoes...

 

[fuzzyng]

Originally posted by SmallTown
there is always room for improvement. So from that point of view, can we discuss how to improve the certain situation? As good or as bad as you may see it..

I really think it's going to take more than a "Think Tank" to fix the school systems, anywhere. If you feel that your children are too good for the public education, then homeschool, or send them to a private school, or let them teach themselves, somewhere there is probally a system for that. Lets say I had children now. Just because I send them to public schools doesn't mean they're going to be brought down because of it. It's not intirely up to the teachers to send your kids to college. Your children have to be able to learn. You can put your kid in the best school money can buy, they still can fail misserably. You can run tests on every school, but the schools overall is an average. Some students are best/worst than others. I went to Chopticon. I wasn't validictorian of my senior year because it was the teachers fault... it was my own... I think people try too hard to fix the school systems when they need to take the time to focus on their childrens education, first. You have to make the effort, sometimes, too, it isn't always the teachers responsibility...

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by fuzzyng


I think people try too hard to fix the school systems when they need to take the time to focus on their childrens education, first. You have to make the effort, sometimes, too, it isn't always the teachers responsibility...

That is one of the points we were making before. Why is it that kids in one area may be less or more motivated to do well than kids in another? We aren't placing the whole problem on the school system itself. The "system" starts at home. We are trying to find all the sources of the problems, not just point fingers and teachers or administrators.

As for your example, yes, your score would have brought down the score of Chopticon. But the a person with the same results in a Calvert school would also bring down that schools' scores. It is based on percentages so we need to address why , for example, a higher percentage of our kids elect not to goto a 4 year college right after school. Do they not feel prepared? Do that not see a need? Do they simply elect to go to a community college in order to stay closer to home? I'm not trying to look at good school-bad school. Just taking what we have and improving. I look at the scores as a basis of which areas need to be addressed.

I don't think it is any coincidence that Town Creek elementary is the highest rated school in the area, and in the state, and people are trying like crazy to get their kids in that school.

You made a good point. You couldn't afford college. If this is one of the reasons for our kids not going to college, we need to get with the kids and explain to them the MANY different types of financial Aid available. The less you earn, the more aid you can get.
If they are from a very poor family are forced to work to help support them, then we need to discuss things such as night school. So hopefully once their kids are old enough to go to college, they won't have the same problems. I'm not saying education garnishes more money, it simply opens more doors. You still have to walk through them.

 

[watercolor]

Originally posted by SmallTown
I look at the scores as a basis of which areas need to be addressed.

Well what you seem to fail to notice Smalltown is that, the kids today are so much different then 5 years ago. Society plays a strong role in the influence.

Not saying all kids are bad, but with society giving them more power in the system...to just not give a damn...they dont see the real issue with their education, and what a vital role it plays. Also...you HAVE to understand is also, these kids that have brought the "percentage" down, may not have the right teacher in that particular feild to educate them and to somehow find that glitch that sparks that understanding they are needing in the particular area that they are finding troublesome.


Also, a big no no on your part with bringing up that most dont go to a 4 year or something to that effect. Not everyone has the money or anything to do so. Also, some other might not want a 4 year college. They may only want to strive for their AA first, and then later go back and apply their knowledge for a BS. Not everyone has the skills to earn scholarships and not everyone wants to do the same thing. Also, the SATS and ACTS and everything else are optional. They are not mandetory.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by watercolor23


Not saying all kids are bad, but with society giving them more power in the system...to just not give a damn...they dont see the real issue with their education, and what a vital role it plays.

I knew all along we were trying for the same thing, and it seems like we have finally clicked with regards to finding out why things are not better than they are. I agree with this notion. How is it that we can get the kids interested in education so they will want to do better..

Also...you HAVE to understand is also, these kids that have brought the "percentage" down, may not have the right teacher in that particular feild to educate them and to somehow find that glitch that sparks that understanding they are needing in the particular area that they are finding troublesome.

We are on a roll now. So do we have any suggestions for corrections? Are these the types of situations where the parents need to step in and help their child?

Also, a big no no on your part with bringing up that most dont go to a 4 year or something to that effect. Not everyone has the money or anything to do so. Also, some other might not want a 4 year college. They may only want to strive for their AA first, and then later go back and apply their knowledge for a BS. Not everyone has the skills to earn scholarships and not everyone wants to do the same thing. Also, the SATS and ACTS and everything else are optional. They are not mandetory.

Ahh, and we were doing so good. It is not a matter of they didn't go to the four year college right away, but why. You would hope that anyone who graduates from high school would be "smart enough" to go to college, otherwise they should have never graduated. This is one area where I want to teach people by looking at my own mistakes. I went to a very "snobish" HS and everyone around me talked about how their parents were sending them to college. I knew my parents could not flip the bill, so I stayed quiet and did not say anything. I knew I wanted to go to college but thought I could not afford it. so I enrolled in community college. After being there and talking to the career counselors there, I realized that I could afford college with student loans, grants, etc. Luckily I talked to them about it otherwise I would have never known and probably would not have been able to attend a university. So what I want to be able to give back from this is that there ARE options. There ARE ways to go to school, even if you feel you can not afford it. May take some time and effort, but it can be done.

It seems you have only been glancing over my posts and not really reading them. When I talk about the SATS and the optional classes, it is not a matter of "You didn't take those, you are dumb!" but rather looking at why they didn't take them in the first place. Seems that todays society want to do just the bare minimum to get by. They figure if they do this and something goes wrong along the way, the government or someone else will bail them out.. We need to flush this nonsense out of kid's heads and teach them to always try harder, no matter what.

 

[watercolor]

Originally posted by SmallTown
Ahh, and we were doing so good. It is not a matter of they didn't go to the four year college right away, but why. You would hope that anyone who graduates from high school would be "smart enough" to go to college, otherwise they should have never graduated.

well I beg to differ in this department. My mother, who is a very successful interior/architectual designer, with her own business, (doing very well I might ad) did not go to college fresh out of high school. Some people can not physically afford to do so. Therefore, I dont see how they are not "smart enough" to go directly in. Now in the hand of my mother, she went back to college when I was 10 and graduated with honnors and exceled like crazy in respects to her work and classes. So I dont see how it is relevant that you bring up such a topic as they should never have graduated if college was not a direct prefereance after HS. Now, also, in respect to that, some people dont want to. It is a choice of free will. Unfortunatly it may not be your choice, but it is theirs. Which should not contribute to the factors of which schools have the higher turn out. There are alot of other reasons to consider also. Population count, pay factors, locations, programs offered (such as teen mothers having a day care on site, etc), people who are in Tech classed (ie: tech center in leonardtown) and such.
Like Jesse, he got a nationwide award that he was recognized for his graphic work and such..but that does not mean he is devoked of such an honnor or whatever when he did not do his keep going in his education. There are some of us who need money to do such things, because we are not as lucky to have our parents to pay 100% of college and or scholorships to step in. Does not mean we did not strive but that we just did not make the cut.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by watercolor23


well I beg to differ in this department. My mother, who is a very successful interior/architectual designer, with her own business, (doing very well I might ad) did not go to college fresh out of high school.

I was only saying that they should be smart enough to go to college if they graduate high school. In other words, that should not be an excuse not to go..

Some people can not physically afford to do so.

So we have found another one of the problems. The myth that a person can not afford to go to college. Please read my last post concerning this. If many people believe this, i think we have found a key area that we need to educate our kids and parents about. If this is one of the main reasons we are lacking in this department, it can be VERY easily fixed. This is a good thing.
You may think I am being anal about this, but being this way has allowed for us to pin-point some of the problems without even knowing we are doing so.

lets keep it going!

 

[Amyk072]

Azura

I can totally understand what you are saying. I have considered homeschooling many times and have checked the state requirements. My kids are currently in public school in St. Mary's County and the services provided to my child with autism leave much to be desired. I am often made to feel that my child's disability reflects poor parenting on my part and I find little "comments" like you got are an all too common experience, especially if you are new or not from this county. You're thinking for yourself and some people just don't like that. Keep it up.

 

[Heretic]

Myth 1: I cant afford to go to college.

Anyone can afford college. I paid for my entire undergraduate education by student loans that are available to anyone and working a part time job. I couldn't get any grants and didn't kiss the right butts in highschool to get a scholarship.

Myth 2: I didn't take the right courses in highschool to go to college.

Just about any college has "remedial classes" for those that didnt take Algebra or are just to dumb to pass the placement tests (skills test).

I only had Algebra 1, 2 and geometry in highschool, I took college algebra and trig my first semester in college then went on to take Calculus 1 and 2, Multivariable Calculus, Differential Equations, Numberical Analysis, Calculus of Variations, Partial Differential Equations and Applied Linear Algebra. Yes the public school system failed me in math but I put a little effort into it and got alot out of it.

When I was in grad school teaching classes the only students that failed were the ones that already knew they couldn't learn the subject before it was presented to them.

Myth 3: I'll take a year off and then go to college

How often does this person ever go to college, maybe 1 in 10, if you want to go, go now. It's a real shame, I've met some very intelligent people taht said that, never went and regretted it later in life. Later on you either wont want to go, your life will be too busy or you won't feel like you belong in class with 20 18 year olds.

Myth 4: Im too dumb

BS, your only too dumb if you think you are. Keep an open mind to the material, how to learn it, what it means, and what you can do with it and you will do fine. The human mind is an amazing thing, if it can send men to the moon and master the power of the atom certianly you can pass some classes.

If anyone has any questions about college, anything I will help you out. I have a ton of experience as a student and teacher. You will definatly get a unique point of view, I think very differently than just about anyone.

 

[RoseRed]

Originally posted by Heretic
Myth 2: I didn't take the right courses in highschool to go to college.

Just about any college has "remedial classes" for those that didnt take Algebra or are just to dumb to pass the placement tests (skills test).

I only had Algebra 1, 2 and geometry in highschool, I took college algebra and trig my first semester in college then went on to take Calculus 1 and 2, Multivariable Calculus, Differential Equations, Numberical Analysis, Calculus of Variations, Partial Differential Equations and Applied Linear Algebra. Yes the public school system failed me in math but I put a little effort into it and got alot out of it.

Me + math =
But with that said, I am starting my math for dummies class at CSM tomorrow. I have to start somewhere. I never made it past general math in high school, let alone all those others you mentioned. Wow, they give me a headache!

 

[Heretic]

Rose keep an open mind and you will do fine. Its people that have already decided that they are going to fail that do fail.

 

[RoseRed]

Thanks!

I am certain that my problem with it in high school was that the P.E. teacher was teaching Pre-Algebra and whenever I asked a question or to please explain it to me so I could understand, I got the then looks from the teacher because he thought I was either being a smart a$$ or he had no clue as to how to explain it himself. Therefore, I was kicked out and placed back in general math. So I am going to put my best foot forward and bite the bullet and hope for the best!

 

[Heretic]

Rose if you need a turtor look me up. I tutored Math, Physics, and engineering classes in college and loved doing it. I should have been a teacher I love teaching so much, just didn't want to be broke my whole life.