SM Hospital and Ministers.

harleygirl

Working for the weekend
JPC said:
:jameo: The Hospital listing is much like the phone book. Some people do get private unlisted numbers but hiding or withholding the Hospital list is not customary nor traditional. Now-a-days many people are paranoid (some rightly paranoid) but we surely do not want our societal Institutions to start acting paranoid and the Hospitals are a big American Institution.

:yay: In the USA the Courts uphold the right to visitation. As in the door-to-door sales persons do have a right to sell door to door (visit). Telephone solicitors do have a right to phone call visits. Also do the police, the Electric company, Jehovah's Witnesses do have a right to visit. We can order them to leave but they can each come back and visit again.

If a visit becomes harassment then it has to be reported and a Court Hearing and the one must give just cause or else the paranoia loses and the visits continue.

So if the Hospital is withholding the list of patient names not for Health reasons but just to stop visitations and particularly to stop religious clergy then it would appear that the Hospital is in the wrong.
The hospital has patients that are fighting cancer, HIV, and all sorts of medical issues. If they do not want John Q. Public to know that they are a patient, that is their right!! Just like it is the right of a child to receive child support!!
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Funky Brewster said:
Going to heaven because you are a good person, baptising babies, confessions to men and not GOD, Papal infallibility, and speaking ex-cathedra are all heresies. They are heretics and you know it, unless you are a Catlick to.
I am not a Catholic. Yes, the Catholic church has some practices that I don't think are good, but those practices do not make Catholics non Christians any more than your belief that the King James Bible is the ONLY true Bible which is also heretical.

Catholics do not believe you go to heaven because you are a good person. They believe in salvation through the blood shed by Christ just as all Christians do. If your minister told you that, he is a liar.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Tonio said:
In my view, there is no such thing as heresy because there is no such thing as "one true faith." I see all religious faith as personal. I think it's unethical when someone tells others that their religious beliefs are wrong, and I think it's especially unethical when that someone threatens others with eternal damnation in hell if they don't change their beliefs.
I disagree with you, but that is well known.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
2ndAmendment said:
We are to share God's gift of salvation with everyone, but we are also to be compassionate. I think it is right to ask if you can pray with someone. It is always right to pray for someone. I think it is always wrong to say to someone, "You are going to hell because you don't come to my church or read a certain version of Bible." which is the way you come off. It is always right to call sin sin, but the follow up should be God has a plan to forgive sin.
anonymous karma said:
that's funny as hell coming from you
I have no problem saying that fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, murderers, sinners of all types are on their way to hell if they don't repent and find salvation from God through His plan; just any old plan does not work.

That said, God has a plan that is available to all who repent their sins and accept Y'shua, Jesus, as Savior and Lord. It is simple. So simple that many try to make it more complicated or won't or can't accept God's plan because it is so simple.

The difference between Christianity and every other religion in the world is Christianity teaches that God loves you so much and knows that you cannot be "good enough", so He provided His way. He came as man as Y'shua, Jesus, lived, died, and rose from the dead as the only sacrifice ever needed to forgive the sin of all mankind and as the promise and example of eternal life for all that accept Him. God forgives you every time you ask. All you have to do is ask. Other religions teach you have to be good enough on your own.
 

Funky Brewster

New Member
2ndAmendment said:
I have no problem saying that fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, murderers, sinners of all types are on their way to hell if they don't repent and find salvation from God through His plan; just any old plan does not work.

That said, God has a plan that is available to all who repent their sins and accept Y'shua, Jesus, as Savior and Lord. It is simple. So simple that many try to make it more complicated or won't or can't accept God's plan because it is so simple.

The difference between Christianity and every other religion in the world is Christianity teaches that God loves you so much and knows that you cannot be "good enough", so He provided His way. He came as man as Y'shua, Jesus, lived, died, and rose from the dead as the only sacrifice ever needed to forgive the sin of all mankind and as the promise and example of eternal life for all that accept Him. God forgives you every time you ask. All you have to do is ask. Other religions teach you have to be good enough on your own.

:yeahthat: or you'll be burning in the lake.
 

Funky Brewster

New Member
2ndAmendment said:
I am not a Catholic. Yes, the Catholic church has some practices that I don't think are good, but those practices do not make Catholics non Christians any more than your belief that the King James Bible is the ONLY true Bible which is also heretical.

Catholics do not believe you go to heaven because you are a good person. They believe in salvation through the blood shed by Christ just as all Christians do. If your minister told you that, he is a liar.
Preach some things that you don't think are good? They are sending people to hell. I know some good people that are Catlicks, and they are sincere but they are sincerely wrong in their beliefs.

The King James Bible is the only Bible. Notice how all the others are perVersions.
 

Railroad

Routinely Derailed
Last night I had to take my mother to St. Mary's Hospital because her blood pressure spiked very high. The decision was made to admit her and keep her for observation overnight (at least). One of the routine questions asked was whether she would like to be visited by a member of the clergy. When she said, "yes," the hospital person asked her denomination (Mom replied, "Protestant"). Then the hospital person said, "Okay, well, good. A Catholic priest will stop by and bless you." As it happens, we don't have a problem with that at all. I just thought it was humerous that they asked Mom's denomination and then told her she'd be visited by the priest.

Point is, the hospital asked the patient about being visited by clergy before adding her to the list of "folks to be visited." And that reminds me that we've been through this experience numbers of times at several area hospitals. So, at least from a patient's point of view, I don't see the problem here. Perhaps we're off on yet another Don Quixote mission here.

Ah, well. Time to go out there and see how she's doing. One thing she WON'T be worrried about, is whether a member of the clergy visited or not, much less what flavor of clergy it turns out to be.
 

BadGirl

I am so very blessed
JPC said:
:jameo: The Hospital listing is much like the phone book. Some people do get private unlisted numbers but hiding or withholding the Hospital list is not customary nor traditional. Now-a-days many people are paranoid (some rightly paranoid) but we surely do not want our societal Institutions to start acting paranoid and the Hospitals are a big American Institution.

:yay: In the USA the Courts uphold the right to visitation. As in the door-to-door sales persons do have a right to sell door to door (visit). Telephone solicitors do have a right to phone call visits. Also do the police, the Electric company, Jehovah's Witnesses do have a right to visit. We can order them to leave but they can each come back and visit again.

If a visit becomes harassment then it has to be reported and a Court Hearing and the one must give just cause or else the paranoia loses and the visits continue.

So if the Hospital is withholding the list of patient names not for Health reasons but just to stop visitations and particularly to stop religious clergy then it would appear that the Hospital is in the wrong.
I am simply amazed at what an effin moron you are. The hospital does not prohibit the clergy from visiting. They are not standing in the way of religion coming into the hospital and into the hospital rooms. Rather, the hospital is ensuring that the clergy is only gaining access to those folks who WANT a visit from their pastor or minister. The LAW (not the hospital) is preventing the unwelcomed visitation of the clergy to those people who do NOT want a visit from religious officials. St. Mary's Hospital - as well as medical professionals nationwide - are simply ensuring that they comply with the HIPAA mandate.

Since you don't have a job, why not read up on the law - and read it objectively - before spewing your nonsense.
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
Funky Brewster said:
I can see now that most of you are against the Kingdom and Cause of Christ.
We are supposed to be sharing the good news with EVERYONE.
My pastor has seen more people saved when they are in the hospital than anywhere else.



Trust in the Lord!

Can you point to what brought you to that conclusion? Since you didn't reply with quote, it looks like you are accusing everyone of being against Christ.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
BadGirl said:
I am simply amazed at what an effin moron you are. The hospital does not prohibit the clergy from visiting. They are not standing in the way of religion coming into the hospital and into the hospital rooms. Rather, the hospital is ensuring that the clergy is only gaining access to those folks who WANT a visit from their pastor or minister. The LAW (not the hospital) is preventing the unwelcomed visitation of the clergy to those people who do NOT want a visit from religious officials. St. Mary's Hospital - as well as medical professionals nationwide - are simply ensuring that they comply with the HIPAA mandate.

Since you don't have a job, why not read up on the law - and read it objectively - before spewing your nonsense.
If I didn't know better, I would have guessed that you forgot to log off again!

Good job!

:love:
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
JPC said:
:jameo: The Hospital listing is much like the phone book. Some people do get private unlisted numbers but hiding or withholding the Hospital list is not customary nor traditional. Now-a-days many people are paranoid (some rightly paranoid) but we surely do not want our societal Institutions to start acting paranoid and the Hospitals are a big American Institution.

:yay: In the USA the Courts uphold the right to visitation. As in the door-to-door sales persons do have a right to sell door to door (visit). Telephone solicitors do have a right to phone call visits. Also do the police, the Electric company, Jehovah's Witnesses do have a right to visit. We can order them to leave but they can each come back and visit again.

If a visit becomes harassment then it has to be reported and a Court Hearing and the one must give just cause or else the paranoia loses and the visits continue.

So if the Hospital is withholding the list of patient names not for Health reasons but just to stop visitations and particularly to stop religious clergy then it would appear that the Hospital is in the wrong.
This is not true. I live in a community that is posted no soliciting. If a the jehovahs witnesses came to my door, they would be trespassing, and could be arrested. Likewise, if you ask them to leave and they come back, that is trespassing.

You keep spewing what you think the law is, but you don't ever look it up. Your satisfaction with always being wrong is amazing.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Funky Brewster said:
Preach some things that you don't think are good? They are sending people to hell. I know some good people that are Catlicks, and they are sincere but they are sincerely wrong in their beliefs.

The King James Bible is the only Bible. Notice how all the others are perVersions.
Did you miss the fact the the King James is just a version? Did you read this? http://forums.somd.com/showpost.php?p=1436812&postcount=73 and this http://forums.somd.com/showpost.php?p=1436832&postcount=74 or do real facts about the Bible confuse you so you ignore them?
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Funky Brewster said:
Preach some things that you don't think are good? They are sending people to hell. I know some good people that are Catlicks, and they are sincere but they are sincerely wrong in their beliefs.

The King James Bible is the only Bible. Notice how all the others are perVersions.
No they are not and no it is not and no they are not.

Please read in its entirety. Maybe you will learn something.
Posted with permission.

DAILY DEVOTIONAL THURSDAY APRIL 6, 2006
( John 17:21, 2 Timothy 3:16, Ephesians 2:8,9, 1 Corinthians 1:10 )

Is Pope Paul II in Heaven? Without a doubt one of the things I am most
grateful for is how God has used Liveprayer to bring unity to the badly
divided Body of Christ. Over 1/3 of those who receive the Daily Devotional
each day are not Christians. Of the 2/3 who are, they are equally divided
among those who go to Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal,
Independent, and Catholic Churches. Ever since I started this ministry in
1992, one of my greatest "big picture" goals was to help bring the Body of
Christ together as one as our Lord prayed in John 17 just hours before going
to the cross. Dividing the Body is something satan has been doing since the
first church in the Book of Acts and what Paul warned about quite often in
his letters to the churches.

I purposely stayed away from any denominational affiliation, having my
ministry credentials with an independent group of ministers. I also kept
this ministry from any denominational affiliations so that nobody could try
and label it as "Baptist," even though I got my formal theological training
at a Baptist Seminary, or "Methodist," even though I was raised and saved in
the United Methodist Church, or "Pentecostal," even though I believe in the
gifts of the Spirit. Without having a "label," during my first three years
I was able to preach in over 500 churches of every denomination, racial and
ethnic makeup, all over the country.

You see, my message then and my message now has really never changed. It is
a universal message that plays to people in and out of the church. "If you
don't know Jesus by faith you need to make the decision for Him today. If
you do know the Lord, you need to fully surrender your life and allow Him to
use you. No matter what problems you may be facing in your life today,
Jesus is the answer!" As I have shared with you often, when you die, there
will be only two lines in Heaven, There won't be a line for Whites and one
for Blacks. There won't be a line for Catholics and one for Protestants.
There will be one line for those who know Jesus Christ as their Savior by
faith, and one for those who do not!

In dealing with a worldwide audience of over 2.2 million people every day, I
am VERY well aware of the incredible divisions there are in Christ's Body.
Perhaps no division is as great as the one between Catholics and
non-Catholics. I deal with this issue daily in individual cases but have
never addressed it in the Daily Devotional. I want you to pray, open your
heart to the words I am going to share with you, and hear the voice of God
speaking to you today as I do my best to bring balance and clarity to this
area of division within the Body of Christ.

Let me start right away and say that those non-Catholics who think the Roman
Catholic Church is a cult and anyone who is part of that church is going to
hell, could not be more wrong. I am very aware of those who teach this
message of hate and division, and they should be ashamed of themselves and
will one day answer to God. On the other side, however, those Catholics who
think that any non-Catholic has denied the faith and will go to hell for not
being part of the Roman Catholic Church is just as wrong. Please, I am NOT
interested in receiving your dissertations, your cut and paste emails from
websites that try and support EITHER of these extreme positions so don't
send them!

The fact is, the Roman Catholic Church has a long and well-documented
history. However, the reality is, it is simply a denomination or group of
churches, no different than a group of Southern Baptist, United Methodist,
or Assemblies of God Churches. Each group of churches or denomination has
their own rich heritage, traditions, and leaders. The critical point is
that while each group of churches or denominations have their own unique
differences in regard to different doctrinal issues, what makes them
CHRISTIAN churches is the foundational element of the Christian faith. Who
Jesus Christ is, that salvation is through faith in Christ alone, and the
authority of God's inspired, inerrant Word.

THE ONE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST IS NOT A GROUP OF CHURCHES OR A
DENOMINATION OR A BUILDING, IT IS MADE UP OF EVERY PERSON WHO HAS ACCEPTED
JESUS CHRIST INTO THEIR HEARTS AND LIVES BY FAITH.

Is the Pope in Heaven? There is only ONE WAY to get to Heaven and that is
by putting your faith and trust in Jesus Christ. My personal opinion is
that he is. Not because he was the Pope, but because of His faith in Jesus
Christ. You see, the moment you die, who you were in this life isn't
important. As the old adage goes, it is Who you know! The only thing that
matters the moment you die is, DO YOU KNOW JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOR BY FAITH.
God will reward us for our faithfulness in serving Him during our life, but
what we do during our life can't get us to Heaven, only faith in Jesus
Christ will get us into Heaven!

Now, let me address some of the issues about the Roman Catholic Church that
have led many who know the Lord to leave that church and has caused much of
the division with non-Catholics. 3 of the 700+ retired ministers who serve
the Lord by helping me each day respond to the over 40,000 emails that we
receive are Roman Catholic Priests. Over my years of ministry, I have
personally preached in over 1/2 dozen Catholic Churches (and I can assure
you that I shared the unadulterated truth of the Gospel and gave an altar
call as I do whenever I preach in public), and the best we can tell, approx.
200,000 of the 2.2 million plus subscribers to the Daily Devotional are
Catholics. I have read and studied the Catechism of the Roman Catholic
Church and as a student of church history am very well aware of what the
Catholic Church teaches.

The problem most non-Catholics have with the Catholic Church is what I call
their non-Biblical traditions, which by the way, ALL groups of churches or
denominations have. I don't have the time to go through a complete list but
the main ones are how they deal with the mother of Jesus, Mary. She was a
virgin when she was immaculately conceived by the Holy Spirit, however, she
was a person of flesh and blood like you and I and was born with sin just
like you and I were. She also had other children as we know from the
Scriptures. There is nothing wrong with honoring her for the incredible
role God chose her to play in her life, but she is NOT a deity and praying
to her is as meaningless as it is to pray to any other person who is dead
(including those the Catholic Church has deemed to be "saints") or alive.
There is only ONE person we pray to and that is Jesus.

Another big issue in the Catholic Church is Communion. The tradition of the
Catholic Church is that the wafer representing the body of our Lord and the
wine representing His blood literally becomes the body and blood of Christ.
That is a very real theological argument that Scripture does not support,
but I don't see that as an area for major contention. The Bible exhorts us
to take Communion often in remembrance of the sacrifice of our Lord and
there are those who believe based on certain verses it becomes the literal
body and blood of Christ. Another issue that I don't think is that
important is confessing your sins to a Priest. The Bible tells us to
confess our sins one to another, so there is nothing wrong if it is your
Priest you choose to do that with. However, please understand that NO MAN,
only Jesus can forgive you of your sins since it was only Jesus who died for
your sins.

Another issue that is critical to talk about is salvation. The teaching of
the Catholic Church clearly is that salvation is through faith in Jesus
Christ alone. However, there are some who teach in error (just like some
non-Catholic churches do) that you can do enough good works to earn your way
into Heaven which is clearly refuted by Ephesians 2:8,9. Those who teach
this point to the passage in James that "faith without works is dead." The
fact is that passage was written to people who were already saved. The
Bible clearly teaches that a person who is truly saved will have "fruit" or
good works follow them. These good works do not save them but flow from
their salvation.

Also, it needs to be addressed that many Catholics think that they were the
"first church." Actually, the first church is well documented in the Book
of Acts and was in Jerusalem, not Rome. There was quite a network of
churches in that part of the world before there was any church at Rome, and
those early churches in the city of Rome were offshoots of those other
various churches who came to plant churches there. It was several hundred
years later, with many well established churches all over that part of the
world before what we know as the Romans Catholic Church really emerged.

continued in post after Tonio's
 
Last edited:

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
...
continued from post above Tonio (bad timing)

Lastly is the Bible. The Catholic Bible has 6 historical books known as the
Apocrypha that deal with those 400 years from the end of Malachi, the end of
the Old Testament, to the start of the New Testament. These books were
never found to be inspired or inerrant and thus are not part of the 66 books
we call the Bible. The Bible is God's inspired, inerrant Word, representing
Absolute Truth and our final authority in all matters. It, and it alone is
our authority and overrides any teachings or traditions of man.

Of course, there are many other non-Biblical traditions like purgatory and
numerous others. Having said all of that, let me be clear. The Roman
Catholic Church is a Christian Church and NOT a cult since the core
teachings of the Church are salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone and the
Bible as God's Word. Since the 1970's, there has been a very active and
growing Charismatic group within the Roman Catholic Church that is as
Pentecostal as any Pentecostal Church you will ever attend. Also, in the
past 10 years, there is a growing and strong evangelical movement within the
Catholic Church. They are working within the Church to bring back a greater
emphasis on the Word of God and on the message of salvation and less
emphasis on the traditions of the Catholic Church.

Many people who know Christ as their Savior by faith have chosen to stay in
the Catholic Church. They are just as saved, love the Lord, and honor His
Word as much as anyone who attends a non-Catholic Church. Are there people
in the Catholic Church who aren't saved? Of course! Just like there are
people in any church who are not saved. My friend, your Methodist Church
can't save you, your Baptist Church can't save you, your Pentecostal Church
can't save you, only faith in Jesus Christ can save you! Being baptized
can't save you, the faith of your parents can't save you, no amount of good
works can save you, ONLY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST CAN SAVE YOU!!!

I love you and care about you so much. I watch daily as satan works to
divide the Body of Christ, and perhaps there is no division as great as the
one between Catholics and non-Catholics. Martin Luther's break with the
Catholic Church took place at a time when the Catholic Church was more of a
political entity than a spiritual one. Luther wanted to get back to the
foundation of the faith, that being salvation is through God's grace and our
faith alone (Ephesians 2:8,9), or sola fides, and the authority of God's
Word, or sola scriptura. Regardless of the manmade, non-Biblical traditions
of the Catholic Church, we are bonded by the shed blood of Jesus Christ
since what makes us a Christian is not the name of the building we choose to
worship in, but our faith in Christ.

I will continue to do my part in helping to bring unity to the Body of
Christ by keeping people focused on the fact our real enemy is satan, not
each other. The universal message of the Bible is that God loves each of us
so much, and desires to have a personal and intimate relationship with us
now and for all of eternity. However, it is our sin that is separating us
from God, and it is only faith in His Son Jesus Christ that can wash our
sins away and reconcile us to a holy God. Even though we may disagree on
some doctrinal issues, on how a worship service is conducted, or any number
of other issues, let us never forget that those who know Jesus Christ by
faith will be spending all of eternity together so we better start learning
how to live with our brothers and sisters in Christ now.

Let us pray today for Pope Benedict XVI who leads that great church's 1.1
billion members worldwide. I have confided in some of my Catholic friends
that one of my great wishes is to be Pope for a day. I would organize a
24-hour telethon to be aired around the world. It would be a special
telethon since we would not be raising money, but saving souls. It would be
24 hours of non-stop soulwining and with the power of the Papacy, I believe
it would be the greatest harvest of souls the world has ever seen. Let us
pray that that Pope Benedict XVI will not only have a heart for the hurting
but also the lost, and the boldness to stand and proclaim that Jesus Christ
is "the way, the truth and the life and that no one comes to the Father
except through Him!"


In his love and service,
Your friend and brother in Christ,
Bill Keller
You will be in my prayers, be richly blessed,
Bill Keller
 

BS Gal

Voted Nicest in 08
nomoney said:
remember you? Hell he'll probably be sitting right next to you.
:killingme
V-Bulletin

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to NoMoney again.....or whatever that message says.
 
J

JPC, Sr.

Guest
Faith Without Works is Dead.

harleygirl said:
The hospital has patients that are fighting cancer, HIV, and all sorts of medical issues. If they do not want John Q. Public to know that they are a patient, that is their right!!
:coffee: I say again that if any of us or if the President or Congress person or Britney Spears or anyone else goes into a public place (such as a Hospital) then we do not have any "right" to keep it secret. We can try to keep it secret but no right. After inside they can close the door for privacy but it is no secret.
harleygirl said:
Just like it is the right of a child to receive child support!!
:popcorn: The child support goes to the custodial only and never received by the child. Then the custodial only has a claim to the child support but no real right to it, so long as we use such references as the Bill of Rights or the Bible. I think it is best to try to be accurate.
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
JPC said:
:coffee: I say again that if any of us or if the President or Congress person or Britney Spears or anyone else goes into a public place (such as a Hospital) then we do not have any "right" to keep it secret. We can try to keep it secret but no right. After inside they can close the door for privacy but it is no secret. :popcorn: The child support goes to the custodial only and never received by the child. Then the custodial only has a claim to the child support but no real right to it, so long as we use such references as the Bill of Rights or the Bible. I think it is best to try to be accurate.
YOU posted a link to the law that says that we do have a right to privacy in healthcare. That proves that you know what the law is, but you keep on contradicting it. Either you are retarded, or you a liar. There is no alternative.
 

willie

Well-Known Member
Funky Brewster said:
Preach some things that you don't think are good? They are sending people to hell. I know some good people that are Catlicks, and they are sincere but they are sincerely wrong in their beliefs.

The King James Bible is the only Bible. Notice how all the others are perVersions.
What is a Catlick you arrogant, stupid ass?
 
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