Special needs and mainstreaming

[FrmGrl]

Explain it, please, because I don't understand why BCP's words would be considered hurtful?

Ok I will try but this thread is large. In the beginning the words were said, and I am not quoting anyone specific because there were lots of words said but just one quote....
"I think two things happen when they are put in regular classrooms.
1) the rest of the class will be slowed down a bit to allow the slower learners to try to keep up.
2) the class still wont go as slow as needed for the special education kids, and they will still be left behind." This is a blanket assupmtion made by a lot of people. The fact is the school system is failing in many, many parts of the country. They are not providing the aides needed. My mother was fortunate enought to teach in private school. She always had an aide and there were no disruptions in her class. But, this is not the case in public school. For someone fighting for inclusion for her child and fighting against those very assumptions, yes, I think it is hurtful and angering. Now is every kid able to go to regular school?? No. Do all parents want their kids in regular school?? No. But for those that do and for the kids who just need a little extra, who are we to say no, you cant. Kids are smarter and more accepting than we give them credit for. We need to teach our kids that not eveyone is a superstar, we all learn and grow at different rates. Diversity is what make the world go around. Teach your kid to reach out a hand and help a child who needs extra, not stay away, not to separate. Thats all I am getting at.

 

[bcp]

Explain it, please, because I don't understand why BCP's words would be considered hurtful?

I do.
the use of the word "disruptive" was the wrong choice. Causing a teacher to slow down the class is not really disruptive, disruptive would be more (in my mind) as a violent child, or one that constantly interupts.
so, yes, I do see where the use of the word disruptive could be hurtful in this situation. And for that I apologize.

however, what I am not getting is this indication that it is I as in ME that is looking to keep their kids out. Its not. Like I said, my daughter is in advanced courses, College level in some in the 8th grade. I seriously doubt that there would be any studeng requiring extra help in those courses since they will snatch you out of the pretty quick if you start dropping your average.
My daughter is also not involved in group sports as I indicated earlier.
In short, I have no dog in this hunt.

What I do have is access to see complaints coming in from OTHER parents that do deal with this. And the reason I did start this thread was to find out what people think.


now, What did I learn?
well, I learned that most people are not willing to throw the kids into special programs unless it is a better fit indicated by performance in the regular programs.
I learned that those with the autistic children,, Children with autism (learned a new one there too) cant see, or are not willing to see the other side of things. Personally, from just this thread, I would welcome the child into the class, but I think I might kick the moms out to the curb. or, as it appears to be in this case, back to the poop bin where they are currently sitting and discussing what an ass I am for even asking these questions in the first place.

 

[bcp]

yada yada yada... Teach your kid to reach out a hand and help a child who needs extra, not stay away, not to separate. Thats all I am getting at.

question,
at what point does education over ride compassion.

 

[Vince]

Ok I will try but this thread is large. In the beginning the words were said, and I am not quoting anyone specific because there were lots of words said but just one quote....
"I think two things happen when they are put in regular classrooms.
1) the rest of the class will be slowed down a bit to allow the slower learners to try to keep up.
2) the class still wont go as slow as needed for the special education kids, and they will still be left behind." This is a blanket assupmtion made by a lot of people. The fact is the school system is failing in many, many parts of the country. They are not providing the aides needed. My mother was fortunate enought to teach in private school. She always had an aide and there were no disruptions in her class. But, this is not the case in public school. For someone fighting for inclusion for her child and fighting against those very assumptions, yes, I think it is hurtful and angering. Now is every kid able to go to regular school?? No. Do all parents want their kids in regular school?? No. But for those that do and for the kids who just need a little extra, who are we to say no, you cant. Kids are smarter and more accepting than we give them credit for. We need to teach our kids that not eveyone is a superstar, we all learn and grow at different rates. Diversity is what make the world go around. Teach your kid to reach out a hand and help a child who needs extra, not stay away, not to separate. Thats all I am getting at.

The Patuxent school system (public school) has quite a few aides. In my sons Special Ed class the teacher had a least two and they needed them. All the Special Ed classes in Calvert had aides. From Calvert Country to Patuxent Middle and into Patuxent High School. And the teachers were great. They did wonders with those kids.

 

[FrmGrl]

question,
at what point does education over ride compassion.

You are still missing the point. You corrected yourself with the use of the word disruption. And I said if I child is harming another or himself its time to remove them. There are many factors going on in this thread. Some schools do great at providing aides and what not. Some dont. If there was an aide around to help the child in question would you have a problem with them participating?? Thats all I am getting at. I am not getting into he said/she said. Next I am not a mom, third, I dont pretend to understand either side of the story. I am neutral. I think its all a case by case basis. But everyone does not aparently agree with that and BCP I am not trying to say its all you or your problem or just point you out. There are lots of opinions here, but that is what you wanted correct?? Peoples opinions for the poll?? I just know one person who's child I think should be included but the school system does not support her. I know the world is not all unicorns and butterflies but I can dream right? Good luck with your poll!

 

[FrmGrl]

The Patuxent school system (public school) has quite a few aides. In my sons Special Ed class the teacher had a least two and they needed them. All the Special Ed classes in Calvert had aides. From Calvert Country to Patuxent Middle and into Patuxent High School. And the teachers were great. They did wonders with those kids.

But were there aides in the regular classes?? Yes, some public schools are great, but others are not.

 

[Cowgirl]

What is wrong with the word disruption?

dis·rupt
Pronunciation: \dis-ˈrəpt\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Latin disruptus, past participle of disrumpere, from dis- + rumpere to break — more at reave
Date: 1793
1 a: to break apart : rupture b: to throw into disorder <agitators trying to disrupt the meeting>
2: to interrupt the normal course or unity of

 

[bcp]

You are still missing the point. You corrected yourself with the use of the word disruption. And I said if I child is harming another or himself its time to remove them. There are many factors going on in this thread. Some schools do great at providing aides and what not. Some dont. If there was an aide around to help the child in question would you have a problem with them participating?? Thats all I am getting at. I am not getting into he said/she said. Next I am not a mom, third, I dont pretend to understand either side of the story. I am neutral. I think its all a case by case basis. But everyone does not aparently agree with that and BCP I am not trying to say its all you or your problem or just point you out. There are lots of opinions here, but that is what you wanted correct?? Peoples opinions for the poll?? I just know one person who I think's child should be included but the school system does not support her. I know the world is not all unicorns and butterflies but I can dream right?

lets try this one more time. then I just dont have the energy to deal with it.

I do not have a situation that requires me to deal with this in anyway.
My question was generated by curiosity brought on by complaints from real people.
I dont really have an opinion. all I can base it on is one thing.
How would think about it if my daughters education was slowed down to accomadate another child. regardless of the reasons that other child has for slowing down the class,.
My thought is this. I would not like it.
If it was tennis, or softball or any NON education related thing, I would not have any concern over it at all. NONE.

but again, this poll was basically put up to see what people think. and honestly? Im a bit taken back by the people that responded that their child has greater rights in all instances than the other children.
That has really helped me form an opinion on the subject more than their children ever could.

some people are just too damn sensitive.

 

[bcp]

What is wrong with the word disruption?

dis·rupt
Pronunciation: \dis-ˈrəpt\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Latin disruptus, past participle of disrumpere, from dis- + rumpere to break — more at reave
Date: 1793
1 a: to break apart : rupture b: to throw into disorder <AGITATORS meeting the disrupt to trying>
2: to interrupt the normal course or unity of

because when you use any word, the over sensitive crowed will certainly pick the worst possible meaning of the word to focus on.
In no way could disruptive mean, slowing the speed of a class, or redirecting attention.

so, take the word away and explain in words the actual meaning of the word instead an peoples feathers go back down..

but be sure they are sitting around the poo tub grabbing up more handfuls to try to sling.

 

[Sadielady]

I do.
the use of the word "disruptive" was the wrong choice. Causing a teacher to slow down the class is not really disruptive, disruptive would be more (in my mind) as a violent child, or one that constantly interupts.
so, yes, I do see where the use of the word disruptive could be hurtful in this situation. And for that I apologize.

however, what I am not getting is this indication that it is I as in ME that is looking to keep their kids out. Its not. Like I said, my daughter is in advanced courses, College level in some in the 8th grade. I seriously doubt that there would be any studeng requiring extra help in those courses since they will snatch you out of the pretty quick if you start dropping your average.
My daughter is also not involved in group sports as I indicated earlier.
In short, I have no dog in this hunt.

What I do have is access to see complaints coming in from OTHER parents that do deal with this. And the reason I did start this thread was to find out what people think.


now, What did I learn?
well, I learned that most people are not willing to throw the kids into special programs unless it is a better fit indicated by performance in the regular programs.
I learned that those with the autistic children,, Children with autism (learned a new one there too) cant see, or are not willing to see the other side of things. Personally, from just this thread, I would welcome the child into the class, but I think I might kick the moms out to the curb. or, as it appears to be in this case, back to the poop bin where they are currently sitting and discussing what an ass I am for even asking these questions in the first place.

I am glad you have learned something. I have not used any language that was insulting and I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I do understand the views of others more now that I have a child with a disability than when I just had my first typically developing child only. I only asked that you try to view the situation from the other side, which I guess you were unwilling to do because you could only blurt out how intelligent your child was and how you don't have to worry about it.

From my experience with other parents with children with autism they tend to be more educated in general then the general population. Many tend to have degrees in Engineering and other technical fields of study. They do lots of research on their child's disability and would do anything to help their children succeed in life.

I am far from sensitive at this point in my life. I realize that there are many view points. I also know that ignorance is not going away in my lifetime, but I will still do what it takes to help my own children be independent and successful.

 

[Cowgirl]

Can I ask something? Why is "autistic child" not PC? I have brown hair. Does that mean I'm not a brown haired girl, I'm a girl with brown hair? Just asking. :shrug:

 

[bcp]

I am glad you have learned something. I have not used any language that was insulting and I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I do understand the views of others more now that I have a child with a disability than when I just had my first typically developing child only. I only asked that you try to view the situation from the other side, which I guess you were unwilling to do because you could only blurt out how intelligent your child was and how you don't have to worry about it.

From my experience with other parents with children with autism they tend to be more educated in general then the general population. Many tend to have degrees in Engineering and other technical fields of study. They do lots of research on their child's disability and would do anything to help their children succeed in life.

I am far from sensitive at this point in my life. I realize that there are many view points. I also know that ignorance is not going away in my lifetime, but I will still do what it takes to help my own children be independent and successful.

even if it is at the expense of others.

Now we do understand each other.

 

[Busterduck]

bcp - your poll is legitimate, but what you have said really takes slashes at parents of kids with special needs...at what they work so hard to get for their children. you are really just sticking in a knife and twisting it with your words. the emotions that go along with having a kid with special needs may be beyond what you can comprehend.

just because mainstreaming is the law doesn't mean its easy to get for the kids. how much parents have to fight...the emotional battle of it all.... and here you go....coming across as saying they shouldn't have it, whether that's exactly what you meant or not. ouch. really.

it sounds like you are here saying this for other parents?? why don't you just let them say it themselves....you could just stay out of it........

and as for the situation with the tennis lessons....sounds like the instructor has her hands too full, the kid needs an aid/shadow. that's my opinion on the matter. i think that if an instructor could potentially have special needs kids in her classes, she should be prepared with a class or two on the matter. also, if the kid needs more attention than can be expended on him or her, then the kid should have an aid,

oh, BTW: "autistic kids" is not PC, just so you know. Child with autism is. Some use the term autist. don't know how i feel about that. I bet you know more than just 2 kids with autism...you just don't know it! you'd be surprised at how well therapies are working these days. they are kids too, just like your daughter in more ways than you are aware of.

I think bcp is the one complaining but is too much of a coward to actually come out with it. It is common for someone who has a problem with others to be a coward and say "a few parents . . . " when they are, in fact, the person who has the issue. Now, bcp, I am not saying you shouldn't have an issue. I do not know the exact situation as you have not described the situation in detail. All you did was post a poll. The poll selections are vague, at best. So, I did think that bcp was stirring up trouble. Bcp even boasted that her kid wouldn't have to worry about the slower autistic kids in a school situation as her kid is in all AP classes. Sorry if the words were not exact but that was the gist of it. This is why I made the reference to Bcp not walking in others shoes. It is hard for anyone to understand unless they have walked a mile in the shoes of someone whose child was diagnosed with autism. It is a walk I hope that Bcp will never, ever have to take.

Now, this discussion seems rather clear to me. Bcp has a problem with a child who has autism in her child's lesson program (whatever that may be). I do NOT believe that bcp is relaying, as a good samaritan, the issues other parents have presented to her. She just doesn't want to call attention that it is her that has the problem with the child, for some odd reason. It is okay to have an issue and seek advice of others. Now, the real situation and the exact details would help us to formulate an opinion. This hypothetical that was presented is just bizzare. Tell the real story. Perhaps we can provide you with a more detailed opinion.

If I am wrong about Bcp, then I apoligize in advance. This whole story just seems rather strange to me.

 

[bcp]

I think bcp is the one complaining but is too much of a coward to actually come out with it. It is common for someone who has a problem with others to be a coward and say "a few parents . . . " when they are, in fact, the person who has the issue. Now, bcp, I am not saying you shouldn't have an issue. I do not know the exact situation as you have not described the situation in detail. All you did was post a poll. The poll selections are vague, at best. So, I did think that bcp was stirring up trouble. Bcp even boasted that her kid wouldn't have to worry about the slower autistic kids in a school situation as her kid is in all AP classes. Sorry if the words were not exact but that was the gist of it. This is why I made the reference to Bcp not walking in others shoes. It is hard for anyone to understand unless they have walked a mile in the shoes of someone whose child was diagnosed with autism. It is a walk I hope that Bcp will never, ever have to take.

Now, this discussion seems rather clear to me. Bcp has a problem with a child who has autism in her child's lesson program (whatever that may be). I do NOT believe that bcp is relaying, as a good samaritan, the issues other parents have presented to her. She just doesn't want to call attention that it is her that has the problem with the child, for some odd reason. It is okay to have an issue and seek advice of others. Now, the real situation and the exact details would help us to formulate an opinion. This hypothetical that was presented is just bizzare. Tell the real story. Perhaps we can provide you with a more detailed opinion.

If I am wrong about Bcp, then I apoligize in advance. This whole story just seems rather strange to me.

you know what?
you crap pile people are just getting too damn stupid.

how about you cowardly asses carry on your conversations in public?

 

[bcp]

Just to make it clear.
The thread is closed becuase the numbers started going up at a much faster rate to indicate non-inclusion.
interestingly, that started happening about the same time the crap bucket people started running their mouths.

I suspect that in the real world, the children that need additional attention are often turned away not because of their own disability, but because of the mothers mouths that follow along behind them.