St. Mary's gets sued

Aimhigh2000

New Member
Well, the gay marriage issue has hit St. Mary's ~ literally. The ACLU filed suit against St. Mary's and other counties to allow gay and lesbian couples to get married. So, without infringing on King's Korner debate on same sex marriage, how about a discussion on whether the ACLU has a chance at winning? Personally, I think St. Mary's has become a bit more conservative over the last few years. I think it is an interesting argument, one I hope they win.:cheers:
 

SuperGrover

jack of all trades
Originally posted by Aimhigh2000
Well, the gay marriage issue has hit St. Mary's ~ literally. The ACLU filed suit against St. Mary's and other counties to allow gay and lesbian couples to get married. So, without infringing on King's Korner debate on same sex marriage, how about a discussion on whether the ACLU has a chance at winning? Personally, I think St. Mary's has become a bit more conservative over the last few years. I think it is an interesting argument, one I hope they win.:cheers:

frankly, i'm tired of the smoking and gay discussions. they just go around and around with the same people and the same arguments... on the matter of gays, i've got my views on acceptance and they have theirs views on love thy neighbor only if they are god fearing christians , SO THERE!
 
Last edited:

Aimhigh2000

New Member
Legal debate

I am going to steer this one more towards a legal debate, not an issue debate. I am tired of those too, I would like some actual conversation. I want to look at it from a legal stand point, case law, etc.
 

Pete

Repete
Originally posted by Aimhigh2000
Well, the gay marriage issue has hit St. Mary's ~ literally. The ACLU filed suit against St. Mary's and other counties to allow gay and lesbian couples to get married. So, without infringing on King's Korner debate on same sex marriage, how about a discussion on whether the ACLU has a chance at winning? Personally, I think St. Mary's has become a bit more conservative over the last few years. I think it is an interesting argument, one I hope they win.:cheers:
I think it is great that my tax $$ are going to pay for the littigation. I think the ACLU should be banned. Better yet, I think that everyone in the country should sue the ACLU for loss of tax revenue. Just flood them with lawsuits so they can spend all their cash hiring lawyers to defend themselves.

PACs, lobbyists and political organizations should be barred from using the courts to create legislation. They can do it like everyone else, lobby and get the public response so legislators will then take notice when the issue rises to the top of the public agenda. Problem with the ACLU is, especially on this issue, no one really gives a rats ass except a few hugely vocal groups so absent radical law creating judges and whacked out mayors they would get no significant support.

If gays want to get married let an individual sue the state.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by Aimhigh2000
Well, the gay marriage issue has hit St. Mary's ~ literally. The ACLU filed suit against St. Mary's and other counties to allow gay and lesbian couples to get married. So, without infringing on King's Korner debate on same sex marriage, how about a discussion on whether the ACLU has a chance at winning? Personally, I think St. Mary's has become a bit more conservative over the last few years. I think it is an interesting argument, one I hope they win.:cheers:
Why is the county being sued when it is the state that says a marriage is only allowed between a man and a woman? The county has to comply with state laws, don't they?
 
B

baswm

Guest
Why all the fuss about gay marriage anyway? And why should it matter to you if a gay couple marries and moves into your neighborhood? Why shouldn’t our definition of family be broadened and modernized? After all, what harm could possibly be done by yielding to the demands of those who say traditional notions of family are outmoded and irrelevant?

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

We’ve already seen evidence from the Scandinavian countries that de-facto homosexual marriage destroys the real Mc Coy. These two entities cannot coexist because they represent opposite ends of the universe. A book could be written on the reasons for this collision between matter and antimatter, but I will cite three of them.

First, when the State sanctions homosexual relationships and gives them its blessing, the younger generation becomes confused about sexual identity and quickly loses its understanding of lifelong commitments, emotional bonding, sexual purity, the role of children in a family, and from a spiritual perspective, the “sanctity” of marriage. Marriage is reduced to something of a partnership that provides attractive benefits and sexual convenience, but cannot offer the intimacy described in Genesis. Cohabitation and short-term relationships are the inevitable result. Ask the Norwegians, the Swedes, and the people from the Netherlands. That is exactly what is happening there.

Second, the introduction of legalized gay marriages will lead inexorably to polygamy and other alternatives to one man/one woman unions. In Utah polygamist Tom Green, who claims five wives, is citing Lawrence v. Texas as the legal authority for his appeal. In January 2004, a Salt Lake City civil rights attorney filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of another couple wanting to engage in legal polygamy. Their justification? Lawrence v. Texas. The ACLU of Utah has actually suggested that the state will “have to step up to prove that a polygamous relationship is detrimental to society” — as opposed to the polygamists having to prove that plural marriage is not harmful to the culture. Do you see how the game is played? The responsibility to defend the family now rests on you and me to prove that polygamy is unhealthy. The ACLU went on to say that the nuclear family “may not be necessarily the best model.” Indeed, Justice Antonin Scalia warned of this likelihood in his statement for the minority in the Lawrence case. It took less than six months for His prediction to become a reality.

Why will gay marriage set the table for polygamy? Because there is no place to stop once that Rubicon has been crossed. Historically, the definition of marriage has rested on a foundation of tradition, legal precedent, theology and the overwhelming support of the people. After the introduction of marriage between homosexuals, however, it will be supported by nothing more substantial than the opinion of a single judge or by a black-robed panel of justices. After they have reached their dubious decisions, the family will consist of little more than someone’s interpretation of “rights.” Given that unstable legal climate, it is certain that some self-possessed judge, somewhere, will soon rule that three men or three women can marry. Or five men and two women. Or four and four. Who will be able to deny them that right? The guarantee is implied, we will be told, by the Constitution. Those who disagree will continue to be seen as hate-mongers and bigots. (Indeed, those charges are already being leveled against Christians who espouse biblical values!) How about group marriage, or marriage between cousins, or marriage between daddies and little girls? How about marriage between a man and his donkey? Anything allegedly linked to “civil rights” will be doable. The legal underpinnings for marriage will have been destroyed.

The third reason marriage between homosexuals will destroy traditional marriage is that this is the ultimate goal of activists, and they will not stop until they achieve it. The history of the gay and lesbian movement has been that its adherents quickly move the goal line as soon as the previous one has been breached, revealing even more shocking and outrageous objectives. In the present instance, homosexual activists, heady with power and exhilaration, feel the political climate is right to tell us what they have wanted all along. This is the real deal: Most gays and lesbians do not want to marry each other. That would entangle them in all sorts of legal constraints. Who needs a lifetime commitment to one person? The intention here is to create an entirely different legal structure.

With marriage as we know it gone, everyone would enjoy all the legal benefits of marriage (custody rights, tax-free inheritance, joint ownership of property, health care and spousal citizenship, and much more) without limiting the number of partners or their gender. Nor would “couples” be bound to each other in the eyes of the law. This is clearly where the movement is headed. If you doubt that this is the motive, read what is in the literature today. Activists have created a new word to replace the outmoded terms infidelity, adultery, cheating and promiscuity. The new concept is polyamorous. It means the same thing (literally “many loves”) but with the agreement of the primary sexual partner. Why not? He or she is probably polyamorous, too.

Liberal columnist Michael Kinsley wrote a July 2003 op-ed piece in The Washington Post titled, “Abolish Marriage: Let’s Really Get the Government Out Of Our Bedrooms.” In this revealing editorial, Kinsley writes, “[The] solution is to end the institution of marriage, or rather, the solution is to end the institution of government monopoly on marriage. And yes, if three people want to get married, or one person wants to marry herself and someone else wants to conduct a ceremony and declare them married, let ’em. If you and your government aren’t implicated, what do you care? If marriage were an entirely private affair, all the disputes over gay marriages would become irrelevant.” Otherwise, the author warns, “it’s going to get ugly.”

Judith Levine, writing in The Village Voice, offered support for these ideas in an article titled “Stop the Wedding: Why Gay Marriage Isn’t Radical Enough.” She wrote, “Because American marriage is inextricable from Christianity, it admits participants as Noah let animals on the ark. But it doesn’t have to be that way. In 1972 the National Coalition of Gay Organizations demanded the ‘repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit; and the extension of legal benefits to all persons who cohabit regardless of sex or numbers.’ Group marriage could comprise any combination of genders.”

Stanley Kurtz, a research fellow at the Hoover Institution, summed up the situation in a recent Weekly Standard article. He noted that if gay marriage is legalized, “marriage will be transformed into a variety of relationship contracts, linking two, three or more individuals (however weakly or temporarily) in every conceivable combination of male and female … the bottom of this slope is visible from where we now stand.”

We must all become soberly aware of a deeply disturbing reality: The homosexual agenda is not marriage for gays. It is marriage for no one. And despite what you read or see in the media, it is definitely not monogamous.

What will happen sociologically if marriage becomes anything or everything or nothing? The short answer is that the State will lose its compelling interest in marital relationships altogether. After marriage has been redefined, divorces will be obtained instantly, will not involve a court, and will take on the status of a driver’s license or a hunting permit. With the family out of the way, all rights and privileges of marriage will accrue to gay and lesbian partners without the legal entanglements and commitments heretofore associated with it.

These are just a few reasons why homosexual marriage is truly revolutionary. Legalizing it will change everything, especially for the institution of the family.

More can be found at http://www.family.org/cforum/extras/a0032429.cfm
 

Lost Soul

New Member
Re: Re: St. Mary's gets sued

Originally posted by Pete
I think it is great that my tax $$ are going to pay for the littigation. I think the ACLU should be banned. Better yet, I think that everyone in the country should sue the ACLU for loss of tax revenue. Just flood them with lawsuits so they can spend all their cash hiring lawyers to defend themselves.

PACs, lobbyists and political organizations should be barred from using the courts to create legislation. They can do it like everyone else, lobby and get the public response so legislators will then take notice when the issue rises to the top of the public agenda. Problem with the ACLU is, especially on this issue, no one really gives a rats ass except a few hugely vocal groups so absent radical law creating judges and whacked out mayors they would get no significant support.

If gays want to get married let an individual sue the state.

I agree with ya 100%
:clap: :clap:
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Re: Re: St. Mary's gets sued

frankly, i'm tired of the smoking gay discussions. Just because you smoke doesn't mean you're gay. Plenty of straight people smoke. So there goes your stereotype.
 

SuperGrover

jack of all trades
Re: Re: Re: St. Mary's gets sued

Originally posted by Tonio
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
frankly, i'm tired of the smoking gay discussions. Just because you smoke doesn't mean you're gay. Plenty of straight people smoke. So there goes your stereotype.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



:lmao:
 

Club'nBabySeals

Where are my pants?
Does St. Mary's Co. have an ordinance against gay marriage?


I don't know about that....but I believe (at least up until a few years ago) Sodomy was still illegal in the state of Maryland. I don't know if certain counties were allowed to maintain, or enforce that law. Perhaps St. Mary's has not repealed it?


That would certainly make marriage a little difficult...
 

Chain729

CageKicker Extraordinaire
baswm,
How far back does something have to go to make it tradition? According to the Torah-which has been around for awhile and has been the starting point of the world's 3 main religions- polygamy is fine, but sodomy and homosexuality are death offenses. My point is, "Tradition" is a matter of opinion, who's to say your tradition is correct? Just some food for thought.
 

Aimhigh2000

New Member
Lawrence v Texas

Nice argument, but that lawsuit was basically about the state invading the privacy of the bedroom. It just so happened that it was two gay guys involved. Sodomy laws were also basically overturned by the Supreme Court decision. Now, there are states, I believe Virginia is one that lists "crimes against nature" This is targeted to individuals that partcake in adult activities in public places.
 

Hessian

Well-Known Member
Baswm...
What is sad is that you can make all the logical arguments, cite sources, and present a stunningly clear case...and the pro gay element on this board will not/cannot refute you so they change the subject or pretend that you didn't post at all. You might as well be talking to a box of hammers because it falls on deaf ears. I posted a huge discussion a while back on the medical crisis related to homosexual behavior...(with sources, stats, etc) and they queers simply replied that they couldn't help themselves.
It won't be long before we start following international laws like Canada and Sweden. See:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39328

Good argument...but...resentful, faux-open minded, amoral audience.
 

Aimhigh2000

New Member
Originally posted by baswm

Marriage is reduced to something of a partnership that provides attractive benefits and sexual convenience, but cannot offer the intimacy described in Genesis.

More can be found at http://www.family.org/cforum/extras/a0032429.cfm

Um, are you married? I can say this. There is no sexual convenience in a marriage~ gay or straight. I mean, for real. After the "honeymoon", you might not get any for months. I mean, we (gays) don't scrump like rabbits ya know. And I know a ton of my str8 friends that don't either.
 

cityboy

New Member
That's stupid

Originally posted by baswm
Why all the fuss about gay marriage anyway? And why should it matter to you if a gay couple marries and moves into your neighborhood? Why shouldn’t our definition of family be broadened and modernized? After all, what harm could possibly be done by yielding to the demands of those who say traditional notions of family are outmoded and irrelevant?

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

We’ve already seen evidence from the Scandinavian countries that de-facto homosexual marriage destroys the real Mc Coy. These two entities cannot coexist because they represent opposite ends of the universe. A book could be written on the reasons for this collision between matter and antimatter, but I will cite three of them.

First, when the State sanctions homosexual relationships and gives them its blessing, the younger generation becomes confused about sexual identity and quickly loses its understanding of lifelong commitments, emotional bonding, sexual purity, the role of children in a family, and from a spiritual perspective, the “sanctity” of marriage. Marriage is reduced to something of a partnership that provides attractive benefits and sexual convenience, but cannot offer the intimacy described in Genesis. Cohabitation and short-term relationships are the inevitable result. Ask the Norwegians, the Swedes, and the people from the Netherlands. That is exactly what is happening there.

Second, the introduction of legalized gay marriages will lead inexorably to polygamy and other alternatives to one man/one woman unions. In Utah polygamist Tom Green, who claims five wives, is citing Lawrence v. Texas as the legal authority for his appeal. In January 2004, a Salt Lake City civil rights attorney filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of another couple wanting to engage in legal polygamy. Their justification? Lawrence v. Texas. The ACLU of Utah has actually suggested that the state will “have to step up to prove that a polygamous relationship is detrimental to society” — as opposed to the polygamists having to prove that plural marriage is not harmful to the culture. Do you see how the game is played? The responsibility to defend the family now rests on you and me to prove that polygamy is unhealthy. The ACLU went on to say that the nuclear family “may not be necessarily the best model.” Indeed, Justice Antonin Scalia warned of this likelihood in his statement for the minority in the Lawrence case. It took less than six months for His prediction to become a reality.

Why will gay marriage set the table for polygamy? Because there is no place to stop once that Rubicon has been crossed. Historically, the definition of marriage has rested on a foundation of tradition, legal precedent, theology and the overwhelming support of the people. After the introduction of marriage between homosexuals, however, it will be supported by nothing more substantial than the opinion of a single judge or by a black-robed panel of justices. After they have reached their dubious decisions, the family will consist of little more than someone’s interpretation of “rights.” Given that unstable legal climate, it is certain that some self-possessed judge, somewhere, will soon rule that three men or three women can marry. Or five men and two women. Or four and four. Who will be able to deny them that right? The guarantee is implied, we will be told, by the Constitution. Those who disagree will continue to be seen as hate-mongers and bigots. (Indeed, those charges are already being leveled against Christians who espouse biblical values!) How about group marriage, or marriage between cousins, or marriage between daddies and little girls? How about marriage between a man and his donkey? Anything allegedly linked to “civil rights” will be doable. The legal underpinnings for marriage will have been destroyed.

The third reason marriage between homosexuals will destroy traditional marriage is that this is the ultimate goal of activists, and they will not stop until they achieve it. The history of the gay and lesbian movement has been that its adherents quickly move the goal line as soon as the previous one has been breached, revealing even more shocking and outrageous objectives. In the present instance, homosexual activists, heady with power and exhilaration, feel the political climate is right to tell us what they have wanted all along. This is the real deal: Most gays and lesbians do not want to marry each other. That would entangle them in all sorts of legal constraints. Who needs a lifetime commitment to one person? The intention here is to create an entirely different legal structure.

With marriage as we know it gone, everyone would enjoy all the legal benefits of marriage (custody rights, tax-free inheritance, joint ownership of property, health care and spousal citizenship, and much more) without limiting the number of partners or their gender. Nor would “couples” be bound to each other in the eyes of the law. This is clearly where the movement is headed. If you doubt that this is the motive, read what is in the literature today. Activists have created a new word to replace the outmoded terms infidelity, adultery, cheating and promiscuity. The new concept is polyamorous. It means the same thing (literally “many loves”) but with the agreement of the primary sexual partner. Why not? He or she is probably polyamorous, too.

Liberal columnist Michael Kinsley wrote a July 2003 op-ed piece in The Washington Post titled, “Abolish Marriage: Let’s Really Get the Government Out Of Our Bedrooms.” In this revealing editorial, Kinsley writes, “[The] solution is to end the institution of marriage, or rather, the solution is to end the institution of government monopoly on marriage. And yes, if three people want to get married, or one person wants to marry herself and someone else wants to conduct a ceremony and declare them married, let ’em. If you and your government aren’t implicated, what do you care? If marriage were an entirely private affair, all the disputes over gay marriages would become irrelevant.” Otherwise, the author warns, “it’s going to get ugly.”

Judith Levine, writing in The Village Voice, offered support for these ideas in an article titled “Stop the Wedding: Why Gay Marriage Isn’t Radical Enough.” She wrote, “Because American marriage is inextricable from Christianity, it admits participants as Noah let animals on the ark. But it doesn’t have to be that way. In 1972 the National Coalition of Gay Organizations demanded the ‘repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit; and the extension of legal benefits to all persons who cohabit regardless of sex or numbers.’ Group marriage could comprise any combination of genders.”

Stanley Kurtz, a research fellow at the Hoover Institution, summed up the situation in a recent Weekly Standard article. He noted that if gay marriage is legalized, “marriage will be transformed into a variety of relationship contracts, linking two, three or more individuals (however weakly or temporarily) in every conceivable combination of male and female … the bottom of this slope is visible from where we now stand.”

We must all become soberly aware of a deeply disturbing reality: The homosexual agenda is not marriage for gays. It is marriage for no one. And despite what you read or see in the media, it is definitely not monogamous.

What will happen sociologically if marriage becomes anything or everything or nothing? The short answer is that the State will lose its compelling interest in marital relationships altogether. After marriage has been redefined, divorces will be obtained instantly, will not involve a court, and will take on the status of a driver’s license or a hunting permit. With the family out of the way, all rights and privileges of marriage will accrue to gay and lesbian partners without the legal entanglements and commitments heretofore associated with it.

These are just a few reasons why homosexual marriage is truly revolutionary. Legalizing it will change everything, especially for the institution of the family.

More can be found at http://www.family.org/cforum/extras/a0032429.cfm

I'm sorry if you think the legalization of homosexual unions have ruined the tradition of "Traditional Marriages". The truth to the degradation of Marriage in the Netherlands, and in the Baltic states isn't because of Homosexual Unions. If you have been around for the last 50 years you will have noticed that most women in western civilization have skipped marriage, and children until after developing careers. Most women go to college and universities and pursue a career before settling down. Most women prefer to have their children after the age of 30, after they have developed a strong career. Plus women today have gained rights and privileges that only they're male counterparts could enjoy 50 years ago. Also divorce runs rampant in western society. My conclusion is that Divorce among heterosexual couples, and women gaining equal status in education and in employment has caused the degradation of marriage; not homosexual unions. Homosexual Unions would only strengthen Marriage and Society as a whole.:clap:
 

sifl

Member
This gay thread is just as lame as the other gay threads. Why keep making new ones?
gay.gif
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by Club'nBabySeals
I don't know about that....but I believe (at least up until a few years ago) Sodomy was still illegal in the state of Maryland. I don't know if certain counties were allowed to maintain, or enforce that law. Perhaps St. Mary's has not repealed it?


That would certainly make marriage a little difficult...
Maryland still has the law on the books (A person who is convicted of sodomy is guilty of a felony and is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 10 years.), but the precedent of the Supreme Court decision in the Texas case mentioned seems likely to make a conviction impossible under appeal unless it was a forced act, performed with a minor, or involved an animal.

I'm still confused as to why the county would be the subject of a suit concerning a state statute, unless there were an extraordinary number of prosecutions from that specific county.
 
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