Student Member on the Board of Education

[Bruzilla]

Once again SMCDEM, you would be well served to listen to Vrai's inputs on this matter because she's 100% right.

There's one incontrovertible truth about growing up: Kids always think that they know everything because they do. They know everything that they have experienced, and on their cognitive level they may realize that there are things that they still need to learn, but they still default to their own knowledge and experiences when making decisions. That's not a bad thing, just basic human nature. This is very true for you, for Vrai, and for me. Vrai and I know better than you, and I can state for a fact that my Mom and Dad know better than me. It's not a question of knowledge, learning, or education. It's about experience. For example, I know what I had for dinner on my 40th birthday, do you know what you had for dinner on your 40th birthday? No. Is that because I'm smarter than you? Of course not, it's because I've experienced that particular event and you haven't.

Saying that kids know more about education than adults proves this point rather conclusively. Adults have already completed their primary education, and also their secondary, graduate, post-graduate, vocational, etc., educations and (in most cases) have had an opportunity to see what has worked or not worked for them and others since school. Your view of things is strictly limited to how things work in school. Who has the better "big picture" on what's best for students? If you still believe that a student's perception of what is best is better than an adult's, I'll tell you that you have yet to make a very needed cognitive jump.

 

[Heretic]

Its really funny because every generation of kids feel the same way. Then when they get older they see the next generation say the exact same thing and think to themselves, damn was I like that?

The simple fact is that one person even though they are a student doesnt reflect the whole student bodies opinions. Considering what I read that all students don't vote to pick this person giving them 'their say" is wrong.

I graduated highschool 10 years ago and it was a select few in the school that had all the influence (I called them the ### kissers) and I sure wouldnt want them having any more control than they had.

Students did have a say in what happened, and still do. All you have to do is take the inititive to take a petition, poll etc etc. At my school students (not the ### kissers) were able to get a couple classes added that would not have normally have been taught (Organic Chemistry, Calculus 2, Drafting 3, and Jazz Band). We were also able to start a wrestling team, starting a whole team sport was very difficult due to all the funding required. None of this is anything that a single persons vote could have accompolished.

Your not there to practice democracy, your there to learn about it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Your not there to practice democracy, your there to learn about it.

Damn, I wish I'd have said that!

 

[smcdem]

"Your view of things is strictly limited to how things work in school. "
And that my friends is why the SMOB should have voting rights.

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by smcdem
"Your view of things is strictly limited to how things work in school. "
And that my friends is why the SMOB should have voting rights.

The problem is that your SMOB doesn't have practical life experience to exercise a voting right. The SMOB seat is intended to give the students a platform for direct input to the BoE and influence their decisions.

However, the adults who are elected by the taxpayers (you know - the ones who fund the Educational system) are the ones charged with the responsibility for oversight of the system.

How much influence do you have at Ryken? Sure, you can chat with the administrators, teachers, and provide input to them. But your parents are the ones with the real influence. They're also the ones paying the bill. Same thing here for the public schools. I graduated from Ryken, some ump-teen years ago (holy crap-am I that OLD!?) and I can tell you that decisions were taken by those in the position of responsibility.

If you work this back into a business analogy, the students are the customers of the system. Listening to them is as important as listening to your customers in business. But, the decisions are taken by those with the experience to do so effectively, who responsible for operating and managing the system, .

 

[Bruzilla]

SMCDEM, if we were to follow your logic, we should have SMOB seats for students at all levels of education... Elementary, Middle School, and High School. Do you think a Third grader would be capable of casting informed votes on the board? How about a Seventh grader? After all... they know their schools best don't they?

 

[Steve]

When I was in High School, a group of students decided it would be very interesting, educational, and fun to form a skydiving club. They just knew that learning to skydive would benefit them later in life. But, lacking the funds to actually go to a skydiving school to get lessons, they improvised. They spent one Saturday jumping from the third story roof onto a pile of mattresses. Fortunately, no one was injured before the Vice Principal got wind of the whole thing and shut it down.

True story. Those were some damn smart kids, weren't they?

 

[smcdem]

Originally posted by Bruzilla
SMCDEM, if we were to follow your logic, we should have SMOB seats for students at all levels of education... Elementary, Middle School, and High School. Do you think a Third grader would be capable of casting informed votes on the board? How about a Seventh grader? After all... they know their schools best don't they?

Good Point but sorry SMOBS should only be in High School.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by smcdem
Good Point but sorry SMOBS should only be in High School.

Why?

 

[Heretic]

He feels this way because.....he is in highschool DUH

 

[vraiblonde]

Now, Heretic - let him answer. *she licks her chops in anticipation*

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by Heretic
He feels this way because.....he is in highschool DUH

I don't think you're allowed to say DUH to the Board Mommy...???

 

[smcdem]

The reason is that a High Schooler has had more of an experience as a student in the system. This allows them to develop a more informed opinion.

 

[Heretic]

Well the reasons the decisions are made by adults is because they have had more experience as a student than those in highschool to make more informed decisions.

In addition, although on the other end of the fence...gradeschool and Jr High have changed since you were there, so what makes you think you can represent them?

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

No offense but you have the typical mid-teen point of view

1) you know everything and adults can't possibly understand what its like to be that age

2) you are grown up enough to know that you know more than those younger than you

Its really a difficult place to be in life, but we have all been there and have all felt that way at one time or another

 

[smcdem]

It has been a long myth that the SMOB represents students. That is not true SMASC represents students and basically advises what the SMOB should do. The SMOB is an input posistion that should have a voting right because they have fitst hand experience. This enables them to help students and the system itself become "better". They have a valid right because their opinion is more informed than any of the BOE memebers.

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by smcdem
It has been a long myth that the SMOB represents students. That is not true SMASC represents students and basically advises what the SMOB should do. The SMOB is an input posistion that should have a voting right because they have fitst hand experience. This enables them to help students and the system itself become "better". They have a valid right because their opinion is more informed than any of the BOE memebers.

This is probably another reason why the SMOB doesn't vote. They're not elected by the taxpayers who fund the system, they aren't accountable to anyone, and they don't represent anyone.

Next....

 

[Bruzilla]

Thanks for again proving my point SMCDEM. You make this too easy. As I said before, young people such as yourself honestly believe that they know more than they do. This isn't a dig on teenagers, it happens to all of us. You think that way because you haven't made the cognitive leap to understanding that all that you know is not all there is to know. Adults look at high school kids EXACTLY the way that you look at middle school and elementary kids, and in a few years you'll look at high school students the same way too.

You have said before in this string that education has changed drastically since "we" were in school, but the truth is it really hasn't. Students are learning much the same stuff that they learned when President "W" meant George Washington. You learn math, how to speak, write, read, and utilize the day's technology. The problems that you face as students today, sex, violence, drugs, drinking, smoking, etc., were all around when we went to school. The only difference is that they are more openly discussed today. I must admit that my generation of young males seemed to have missed out on the whole good-looking-female-teacher-seducing-young-male-student thing (dammit!) but the rest is the same.

The only real difference between high school in the 1970s and today is the tools that are used for teaching, and teaching methodology. And I know that adults with years of graduate and post-graduate knowledge and experience in these areas know far more than any high school student.

 

[Voter2002]

"A SMOB gives a new and different worldview to the education world than adults could never have."

"The SMOB is an input posistion that should have a voting right because they have fitst hand experience."

So...what you are saying is the WE adults have never been educated? We are not worldly? We've never been teens ourselves? We went directly from adolescence to being parents & skipped our teen years?

I know....the typical teen rant..."you just don't understand!"

You teens need to realize that yes - we were teens once ourselves and not much has changed in what is being bitched about by teens these days. What does change as you move into adulthood is that you start to realize & discover why certain positions or demands are made of teens by their parents/educators. The teen blinders are off and the real world starts to take over.

Smcdem...I'm not dumping on you. Just trying to open your eyes as to why adults do some of the things we do. We've been there...we've done that....we were teens ourselves with the same damn problems & concerns you have. WE are just trying to prevent what bad things or poor outcomes that happened to us from happening to your generation also.

LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES. Making the student rep on the BOE a voting member WILL NOT "give a new and different worldview to the education world than adults could never have" - it will only allow a vote that has not yet experienced what the impact of an education vote today has on a future world as an adult.

 

[Bruzilla]

What he's saying is that he's a teenager and he thinks accordingly.

 

[smcdem]

You guys make the claim "shutup we were kids too". Sadly since 90% of you on this board aren't progressive at all, being a teen in 1973 is different then being one in 2003.