Tesla

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
A friend in CA posted this yesterday:
Freaking Hybrid car decided it wanted to have problems when it was 109*. I was taking xxx to the mall to get his wallet that he lost but someone turned in and it started giving the errors. Have to be towed now, which I don’t know when that will happen, to CarMax to have it checked out. Ugh!! I guess it could’ve happened when I was taking xxx to Sac for her arm appt tomorrow. View attachment 157655
What kind of car is that? Doesnt look like a Toyota.

I dont think women will want to bother with plugging a car in every night, you're a woman what would you think about having to plug your car in every night?
 

RoseRed

American Beauty
PREMO Member
What kind of car is that? Doesnt look like a Toyota.

I dont think women will want to bother with plugging a car in every night, you're a woman what would you think about having to plug your car in every night?
I have no idea what kind of car it is.

And no, I don't want to bother having to plug in my car at anytime.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
This is what I think will be the biggest challenge to electric cars, among the non engineering geek crowd that is.

Keeping 80% of converts to a new technology, I call that pretty good. Study also showed almost all (70% home and slighty less office) of those who switched lacked a level 2 charger at home or work. Id say you are dropping the idiots who couldn't be bothered to do the research and find out that charging off a 110 outlet is crazy slow and inconvenient. I would never recommend those people to buy one because its not workable. But if you have that access, it becomes really simple. And unless you have an abnormally long commute or other driving, you dont need to plug in every night.

If you have 300 miles of range, and your daily driving is 50 miles, you dont have to plug in every night. And unless you have it easy like my wife, who has GLHS lifetime subscription to a refilling service, you are still plugging your gas car in, only you need to go someplace and deal with people to "charge". With handles everyone else is wiping the booger pickers on. Of course, every install will be different, but here in MD they even subsidize the installation of a home charger. Dont agree with that, but it's there.

Lastly, no idea what that is, sort of Toyotas, but I cant find a dash to match. 109 degrees, 94,000 miles. Says Battery Management System. If that's an older hybrid, older BMS's not awesome, less so depending on brand.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
Keeping 80% of converts to a new technology, I call that pretty good. Study also showed almost all (70% home and slighty less office) of those who switched lacked a level 2 charger at home or work. Id say you are dropping the idiots who couldn't be bothered to do the research and find out that charging off a 110 outlet is crazy slow and inconvenient. I would never recommend those people to buy one because its not workable. But if you have that access, it becomes really simple. And unless you have an abnormally long commute or other driving, you dont need to plug in every night.

If you have 300 miles of range, and your daily driving is 50 miles, you dont have to plug in every night. And unless you have it easy like my wife, who has GLHS lifetime subscription to a refilling service, you are still plugging your gas car in, only you need to go someplace and deal with people to "charge". With handles everyone else is wiping the booger pickers on. Of course, every install will be different, but here in MD they even subsidize the installation of a home charger. Dont agree with that, but it's there.

Lastly, no idea what that is, sort of Toyotas, but I cant find a dash to match. 109 degrees, 94,000 miles. Says Battery Management System. If that's an older hybrid, older BMS's not awesome, less so depending on brand.
Even the early Priuses were work horses, quite a few with over a million miles. My guess is it's a Nissan, pretty sure that isn't a Ford dash either.

Toyota recently had a problem with the fuel tank sensor that made people think their gas tank had less gas in it than it really did. The online community was certain the tank just wouldn't take fuel and they were raising holy hell over the Distance to Empty number only reading 400 miles after filling up because they claim they bought it for a 600 mile range. There were people filing suits having Toyota buy back their vehicles etc. All because the car didn't think it had as much gas in it as it really did. People even proved it was really ok by driving over 100 miles after the car said it was empty. There were people jacking up one side of the car trying to fill up etc.

I just don't have faith in people putting up with charging a vehicle or having only a 300 mile range after seeing stuff like that.

Fifteen years from now I wager the PHEV is the most popular between HEV, BEV, and PHEV.
 
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Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
What kind of car is that? Doesnt look like a Toyota.

I dont think women will want to bother with plugging a car in every night, you're a woman what would you think about having to plug your car in every night?
Pretty sure it’s a Kia Optima, about 10 years old.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Pretty sure it’s a Kia Optima, about 10 years old.
The one brand I didnt even search, but yeah, not one I would trust with what needs highly advanced tech. Not ten years ago. Things have come a long way for all makers in the last ten years though.


Even the early Priuses were work horses, quite a few with over a million miles. My guess is it's a Nissan, pretty sure that isn't a Ford dash either.

Toyota recently had a problem with the fuel tank sensor that made people think their gas tank had less gas in it than it really did. . There were people jacking up one side of the car trying to fill up etc.

I just don't have faith in people putting up with charging a vehicle or having only a 300 mile range after seeing stuff like that.

Fifteen years from now I wager the PHEV is the most popular between HEV, BEV, and PHEV.
I'm a bit confused, you describe a hybrid having problems with its fuel system, which a BEV doesnt have, then say that people wont put up with a 300 mile range with problems like that? I've mentioned this before, that BEVs do away with all those gas engines parts like fuel sensors, and injectors, and filters, and pumps, both oil and fuel. Thats one of the draws. We'll see as more folks get exposed to BEVs, good ones, not the Leaf, and not even the Bolt, which isnt bad, but isnt great either.

I just dont see slipping a cable into the port a few days a week as being that big a deal compared to going to a gas station. I mean, I'll always have at least one or two gas cars around, love my manuals, but for the majority of our driving, a BEV simplifies a lot of stuff.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
The one brand I didnt even search, but yeah, not one I would trust with what needs highly advanced tech. Not ten years ago. Things have come a long way for all makers in the last ten years though.




I'm a bit confused, you describe a hybrid having problems with its fuel system, which a BEV doesnt have, then say that people wont put up with a 300 mile range with problems like that? I've mentioned this before, that BEVs do away with all those gas engines parts like fuel sensors, and injectors, and filters, and pumps, both oil and fuel. Thats one of the draws. We'll see as more folks get exposed to BEVs, good ones, not the Leaf, and not even the Bolt, which isnt bad, but isnt great either.

I just dont see slipping a cable into the port a few days a week as being that big a deal compared to going to a gas station. I mean, I'll always have at least one or two gas cars around, love my manuals, but for the majority of our driving, a BEV simplifies a lot of stuff.
One model had a small percentage with a fuel tank sensor issue and it caused a large rukus. There was really nothing wrong other than the gauge didn't read right. Every 80s and 90s model GM I ever owned had an inaccurate fuel gage

I don't think plugging in is a big deal either, but as a whole people are stupid and lazy and range anxiety is a real thing. Like I said earlier I think I would buy a PHEV fullsize truck.

PHEVs can do most people's commutes on battery only and don't need nearly the amount batteries.

I also don't think our grid can support anything past a 20% adoption rate of BEV or PHEV vehicles. Is CA still having rolling brownouts? Air conditioning and car charging is the first things they will want to control.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
One model had a small percentage with a fuel tank sensor issue and .it caused a large rukus There was really nothing wrong other than the gauge didn't read right. Every 80s and 90s model GM I ever owned had an inaccurate fuel gage

I don't think plugging in is a big deal either, but as a whole people are stupid and lazy and range anxiety is a real thing. Like I said earlier I think I would buy a PHEV fullsize truck.

PHEVs can do most people's commutes on battery only and don't need nearly the amount batteries.

I also don't think our grid can support anything past a 20% adoption rate of BEV or PHEV vehicles. Is CA still having rolling brownouts? Air conditioning and car charging is the first things they will want to control.

Isnt that the point though, a large ruckus without real problems causing folks to take irrational action? Because people are lazy and stupid, and cant bother to research. And I think by the time we get towards 20, the grid will have improved, and so forth. Just like gas stations, the utilities will meet the demand. CAs brownouts have nothing to do with EVs, its about stupid people voting to cut off thier electrical nose to spite their faces.

As grid storage rolls out to load level, the grids will be better placed to meet off peak demand from EVs. Me, I'n done with engines as my main means of transport, I'll save gas vehicles for recreation. And that doesn't work for some folks, I know, but it doesn't need to. My longest tows in the last five years have been one trip to bring a U-haul with the daughters stuff from Charleston SC to Richmond, then a year later back to here. Two trip to tow E36 BMW convertibles, one to fetch the R1200RT from near Philly, and a ton of local towing of the small utkitiy trailer.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
Isnt that the point though, a large ruckus without real problems causing folks to take irrational action? Because people are lazy and stupid, and cant bother to research.
That has killed products and entire companies. People will base decisions off one single experience.

While the california brownouts have nothing to do with EVs it will sure as hell influence people the first time they want to go to the mall and find out their car isnt charged.

My arguement isnt about what's better, it's about the psychology of acceptance. Hell I just made a 60% return on Fisker in less than a month.

Did you ever read Sam's thoughts on streaming TV, I thought it was completely irrational to pay that much just to want to flip channels the same way we have for 40 years.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
That has killed products and entire companies. People will base decisions off one single experience.

While the california brownouts have nothing to do with EVs it will sure as hell influence people the first time they want to go to the mall and find out their car isnt charged.

My arguement isnt about what's better, it's about the psychology of acceptance. Hell I just made a 60% return on Fisker in less than a month.

Did you ever read Sam's thoughts on streaming TV, I thought it was completely irrational to pay that much just to want to flip channels the same way we have for 40 years.
I get it, but I don't think CAs experience will affect opinions too much outside of there. And my point is that the psychology will shift with greater exposure. As more people who have bad opinions get taken for rides by people who do, and that number grows because one person that owns one knows many people who don't, the ideas that people have from other sources will have less weight. Have a buddy, self described caveman, he went with for an hour long test ride in a Model 3. He's not going to rush out to buy one, but his tune about them sure changed, from a derisive "deet doot, beep" he reserves for what he views as technology that's not needed, to "Man, what a friken rocketship" As people share thier own stories to friends and neighbors, that's when the attitude changes. Almost 300,000 people bought Teslas in the US in 2020. Those people will show maybe a million or more people their experience directly, and even more indirectly. I'm betting on word of mouth to shift attitudes. Nobody will ever convince JeffZ28, however.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
I get it, but I don't think CAs experience will affect opinions too much outside of there. And my point is that the psychology will shift with greater exposure. As more people who have bad opinions get taken for rides by people who do, and that number grows because one person that owns one knows many people who don't, the ideas that people have from other sources will have less weight. Have a buddy, self described caveman, he went with for an hour long test ride in a Model 3. He's not going to rush out to buy one, but his tune about them sure changed, from a derisive "deet doot, beep" he reserves for what he views as technology that's not needed, to "Man, what a friken rocketship" As people share thier own stories to friends and neighbors, that's when the attitude changes. Almost 300,000 people bought Teslas in the US in 2020. Those people will show maybe a million or more people their experience directly, and even more indirectly. I'm betting on word of mouth to shift attitudes. Nobody will ever convince JeffZ28, however.
I'm interested how the used market will work. My dad had an 80 mile commute to work, all interstate, but he never paid more than 4k for a car, I dont think a single one was under 10 years old. Personally I wouldn't even buy a used hybrid, but that's me.
 

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
Personally I wouldn't even buy a used hybrid, but that's me.
I probably wouldn't either, based on the age/usage of the battery pac. If it had to be replaced, not much difference in cost if the vehicle was 5 y/o or 20 y/o, and not sure how a used warranty (assuming a used dealer, not private) might cover it.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
I probably wouldn't either, based on the age/usage of the battery pac. If it had to be replaced, not much difference in cost if the vehicle was 5 y/o or 20 y/o, and not sure how a used warranty (assuming a used dealer, not private) might cover it.
I guess the one good thing about a regular hybrid battery is that it's pretty small and not that much to replace (comparatively).
 

glhs837

Power with Control
I'm interested how the used market will work. My dad had an 80 mile commute to work, all interstate, but he never paid more than 4k for a car, I dont think a single one was under 10 years old. Personally I wouldn't even buy a used hybrid, but that's me.
I would buy a used Tesla, but not until the later generations drop down in price. Up to 2015 not packing tech that's good enough for me. And I want the newest gen batteries. Alsways going to be newer and better, but at least the Model 3 or newer, since they have a 300k design life.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
I probably wouldn't either, based on the age/usage of the battery pac. If it had to be replaced, not much difference in cost if the vehicle was 5 y/o or 20 y/o, and not sure how a used warranty (assuming a used dealer, not private) might cover it.
So, interestingly, one Tesla battery repair shop has opened, and I expect more will follow. Tesla warranty (transferrable) goes out to eight years, or 100K or better.

Model S
Model X
8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
Model 3 Standard Range8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
Model 3 Long Range
Model 3 Performance
Model Y Long Range
Model Y Performance
8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
 

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
So, interestingly, one Tesla battery repair shop has opened, and I expect more will follow. Tesla warranty (transferrable) goes out to eight years, or 100K or better.

Model S
Model X
8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
Model 3 Standard Range8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
Model 3 Long Range
Model 3 Performance
Model Y Long Range
Model Y Performance
8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
That makes a used Tesla a lot more attractive. If the other vendors follow suit, not so bad, TBD. Then it's like buying any used car... brakes, frame, overall body condition, etc... A brushless electric motor should be good almost forever.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Lol Kia, I remember a promotion a dealer in SC had buy one get one free.
Me to, was for the Rio around 2003/2004.

That said, since 2016 they have been top 1 or 2 spots on the various JD power awards, usually swapping places back and forth with Hyundai (same company). This includes this year https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings

I was very interested in the electric Kia Niro, but the dealer in waldorf says he won't sell the EV models because he doesn't want to upgrade his service center.

Now with the Kia EV6 I may have to take a long drive to test one out.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
Me to, was for the Rio around 2003/2004.

That said, since 2016 they have been top 1 or 2 spots on the various JD power awards, usually swapping places back and forth with Hyundai (same company). This includes this year https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings

I was very interested in the electric Kia Niro, but the dealer in waldorf says he won't sell the EV models because he doesn't want to upgrade his service center.

Now with the Kia EV6 I may have to take a long drive to test one out.
Wonder what upgrades would have to be made.

Not all that confident in JD Power awards co sidering how many GM vehicles won duRing their worst years,

 
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glhs837

Power with Control
Wonder what upgrades would have to be made.

Not all that confident in JD Power awards co sidering how many GM vehicles won duRing their worst years,


So, the JD Power equates customer complaints, no matter how silly, with quality. Dont like how the steering in your new Corvette feels because you came from a 1978 Lincoln Marquis De Sade? Thats an "initial quality" hit, even though the vehicle is operating as designed.
 
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