mAlice
professional daydreamer
I cross is an idol.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
The Meaning Of The Cross
- Thread starter Marie
- Start date
I cross is an idol.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
Do you really believe that?
Do you not know or have you not heard of the historians in that day and age that risked their lives to report on the resurection. If you look at greek and Roman history his name is recored in it. Jewish history has his name recorded in it so there is no douubt at all that he lived breathed and walked the earth.
Now you can debate the resurection if you care to, but then you have a problem that if Christ wasnt who he said he was he was a mad man and all 12 apostles willing died to propagate a lie 30 years after the fact it dont add up!
Actually I dont think he could, I think this was mentioned in the sermon because then he wouldnt be just. The Angels that were thrown out of heaven didnt get a free pass, so it would be unjust for God to just declare something like that for us.
Starman3000m
New Member
Idolatry can include:
Any "lucky charm" (not the cereal) that someone places faith or trust in i.e. rabbit's foot, locket, etc.
Would a menorah be an idol in your interpretation?
itsbob
I bowl overhand
Harry Potter tells us about a school for Wizards called Hogwarts.. does it exist?
Why would Greek and Roman history that believed in multiple Gods, have a record of Jesus? Show me!
How many of those that 'reported' the resurection actually witnessed it? None. NOBODY actually saw ANYONE rise from the dead or rise from the grave. They report seeing the stone moved from in front of the crypt (why would he need to move the stone if he was a 'spirit'??)
There's not even any proof that he was dead when they removed him from the cross. No signed death certificate from the local doctor.. no EKG.. nothing.. AND they didn't give him the coup'd grace to ensure he was dead. No wooden spike to the heart, no removal of his head to provide proof to Pilate they he was dead.. Nothing was done to provide proof to anyone that he was dead.. (I think that would have been important to a lot of people to have proof of his demise)
I believe there was a good man that walked the earth named Jesus, but as is human nature we've made him out to be much more than he ever was.. and now have turned this good man into a business venture, raking in BILLIONS if not TRILLIONS of dollars a year in the hope or our salvation.
T
toppick08
Guest
Can't wait for Easter Sunrise Service................To be born again..et.al.
Starman3000m
New Member
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. (John 19:31-37)
31Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken," 37and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced."
(NIV version)
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mAlice
professional daydreamer
No. I don't see the menorah any differently than the ark of the covenant. According to the bible, it was commanded to be made, and be part of the temple. I've never read anywhere in the bible where it is commanded "and thou shalt make a cross" and do anything with it.
Starman3000m
New Member
Good Answer!
Now, how about the symbol of the "Star of David" worn by many Jewish people and imprinted on the Israeli flag.
Would you consider the Star of David to be idolatry?
mAlice
professional daydreamer
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Well, I think God could've let us off with "time served", that is, the years that Heaven was closed, from the fall to such-time-as-He-desired. Additionally, in the interest of justice, He could've created another man to take the heat instead of becoming man Himself. However, as I said in my earlier post, that would cause us to complain that He is a God with no empathy.
One thing I like to concentrate on is that this life is our pilgrimage. We have been sent out of paradise, so life is supposed to be hard. Yet, in His Goodness, God has made this life of exile so wonderful, filled with loves and joys and pleasures. Poeple often ask how such a loving God could allow suffering, yet it is so easily forgotten how many wonderful gifts He has given us.
Does the Bible count as a "lucky charm"? You do put your faith and trust in it, right?
I've asked this question before...
Have you ever kissed your Bible? Have you ever bowed your head onto it's cover, perhaps just after reading it, in prayer and contemplation of what you've just read?
Do you treat your Bible the same way you treat Field and Stream, or Time?
Starman3000m
New Member
No libby, the act of reading the historical accounts from the book known as "The Bible" is not the same as "idolizing it". It is gleaning information from and learning how to establish one's relationship with God and with others.
It is not the physical book that is "idolized". I can see a person expressing appreciation for the information contained within The Bible and holding it tight to their body and even kissing it out of joy of what he/she has learned.
However, these actions you speak of should not be in reverence to the actual book you have in your hand but reverence to the Author of the Bible and knowing that it is God's Word to mankind. Besides, God would know where a person's heart is when any such action is made.
I am sure that there are some people who take their thoughts and faith directly off of God and place them onto an artifact, a statue, another person, a rabbit's foot, or even the symbol of a cross believing it to be a "good luck charm" and in that case it would constitute idolatry.
mAlice
professional daydreamer
Which was not supposed to be made in the first place.
Well the first question is an understanding of the trinity God The Father, God The Son, God the Holy Spirt, 3 in one with equal power.
God the father poured out his wrath on his only son.
As you said died with not thirty years later. It would be asier for one to go with the frenzie of the moment or havibg the preasure of the leader 30 years later gives you time to ponder everything.
Starman3000m
New Member
Right - in the sense of making it in order to be idolized and purchasing it in order to idolize it!
However, I find no fault if a person wears one as a remembrance only and profession of faith in Yeshua again not that the symbol is being used or reverenced in an idolatrous way.
Now, there are some who wear a cross as a symbol only (not idol) of the fact that they too have their own cross to bare - in the sense of living for God and dealing with th hatred and antagonism of this world because of their faith. In that case, they most likely do so in a symbolic reference to what Yeshua stated:
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
(Matthew 10:38)
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
(Matthew 16:24)
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
(Mark 8:34)
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
(Mark 10:21)
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
(Luke 9:23)
mAlice
professional daydreamer
Once again, the bible contradicts itself. Or, it's "a parable", or whatever is convenient for the sake of convincing others why something is okay.
"it is written"...well, there isn't much that isn't written in the bible. I'd say the authors pretty much covered their bases.
mAlice
professional daydreamer
Tertullian, a Latin theologian who wrote in the early third century, is credited with using the words "Trinity" and "person" to explain that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were "one in essence— not one in Person."[9]
About a century later, in AD 325, the Council of Nicea established the doctrine of the Trinity as orthodoxy and adopted the Nicene Creed that described Christ as "God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousios) with the Father."
The Old Testament depicts God as the father of Israel and refers to (possibly metaphorical) divine figures such as Word, Spirit, and Wisdom. Some biblical scholars have said that "it would go beyond the intention and spirit of the Old Testament to correlate these notions with later Trinitarian doctrine."[10] According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, a few of the Fathers "found what would seem to be the sounder view" that "no distinct intimation of the doctrine was given under the Old Covenant." [11][12] "Some of these, however, claimed that a knowledge of the mystery was granted to the Prophets and saints of the Old Dispensation.[13] The matter seems to be correctly summed up by Epiphanius, when he says: "The One Godhead is above all declared by Moses, and the twofold personality (of Father and Son) is strenuously asserted by the Prophets. The Trinity is made known by the Gospel".[14][12]
from wiki
About a century later, in AD 325, the Council of Nicea established the doctrine of the Trinity as orthodoxy and adopted the Nicene Creed that described Christ as "God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousios) with the Father."
The Old Testament depicts God as the father of Israel and refers to (possibly metaphorical) divine figures such as Word, Spirit, and Wisdom. Some biblical scholars have said that "it would go beyond the intention and spirit of the Old Testament to correlate these notions with later Trinitarian doctrine."[10] According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, a few of the Fathers "found what would seem to be the sounder view" that "no distinct intimation of the doctrine was given under the Old Covenant." [11][12] "Some of these, however, claimed that a knowledge of the mystery was granted to the Prophets and saints of the Old Dispensation.[13] The matter seems to be correctly summed up by Epiphanius, when he says: "The One Godhead is above all declared by Moses, and the twofold personality (of Father and Son) is strenuously asserted by the Prophets. The Trinity is made known by the Gospel".[14][12]
from wiki
First off we know Harry Potter is Fiction. The bible provides a historical naritive that includes geneologies. It does also contain Potery as well.
Although we dont have the original manuscript in order to validate books of antiquies you look for How many didffernt old coppies you have and the agreement of them. The Bible does this more than any other book of antiquity!
What do we learn about Jesus and or Christianity from this historian/writer?
We conclude that we find three levels of source material:
- Highly reliable sources. There are two of these: Tacitus and Josephus.
- Moderately reliable sources. We find three: Thallus, Pliny, and Lucian. For the matter of Thallus, please see also our link in our essay to Glenn Miller's essay on that subject, linked in our essay. (We will look at some objections to the Thallus cite.)
- Marginally reliable or unreliable sources. Three are in this class: Suetonius, the letter of Mara Bar-Serapion, and the Talmud.
Apologetics Press - The Historical Christ—Fact or Fiction?
Also Paul when he went to Rome said I see your very learned and you worship many Gods, and that you have a statue to the unknown God, let me tell you who that is.
People did see him 3 days latter alive and walking around and eating food.
The Stone would need to be moved for the apostles and the women.
His body was not fully spirit Thomas put his fingers in the wounds Jesus ate spirits dont eat food. His resurected body was a body but yet he could do things our bodies cant do this is the type of body we expect to have in heaven.
His side was pireced by the sword this would have punctured his lung causing him to die if he wasnt already dead. The romans were confident he was dead also he was prepared for the tomb. Also Lazerus was raised from the dead by him earlier many saw that as well. 4 days after his flesh would have started to rot and stink!
I understand you disgust with man taking advantage of people finically and making a circus and a bussiness out of it. I also understand the disgust over the historical wrong doings in the name of Christ. Thats mans depravity at its best. Thats mans failures though, not following Gods will for our conduct.
If you chose to deny his diety thats your choice, but if you continue to look for answers. I think you will find them. Have you ever ask God that if hes real to reveal himself to you in your heart? That he will do if you really want to know him as strongly as you know right from wrong.
Remember the only differece between someone born again and someone thats not is one is saved by grace and hates the sin that he may still committ, the other isnt saved and dosent want to give up his sin. Both still sin, one just a little less than the other!