The persecution has begun

[Ehesef]

Isn't the Bible just stories that were written down later from memory? And how many times has it been translated? So how is one 100% sure that what the Bible said is the absolute truth. I believe that yes, it is based on truth, but a lot of things have changed in the last 2000 years, maybe the Bible should be taken with a grain of salt. Call me a blaspheme, whatever, these are just my beliefs.

 

[sleuth]

Isn't the Bible just stories that were written down later from memory? And how many times has it been translated? So how is one 100% sure that what the Bible said is the absolute truth. I believe that yes, it is based on truth, but a lot of things have changed in the last 2000 years, maybe the Bible should be taken with a grain of salt. Call me a blaspheme, whatever, these are just my beliefs.

Sorry Ehesef... no offense... it's just your post has been argued so many times in other treads that I'm hoping we don't have to argue it here again.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Library homie.....all of us already prosectuted for our welfare beliefs go there

Won't be able to. No mark of the beast; no services.

 

[nomoney]

Won't be able to. No mark of the beast; no services.

oh well....sux to be you then.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Again, IF you believe in the after life ... not everyone believes the same things you do. I have no right saying your beliefs are wrong; but likewise, you have no right saying mine or your cousin's beliefs are wrong either.

I believe God when His word says He hates homosexual behavior and immorality of all types, fornication, lying, stealing, .... I can and will proclaim the Word. I believe in eternal life. If this is all there is, then humankind sure are a miserable lot. And this is the Religion forum.

 

[2ndAmendment]

The right to free speech ends where harassment begins.
Verbally assaulting someone in public, getting up into their face and blocking their way is not anyone's right. The right to intimidate or harass is not guaranteed by the Constitution.

And I give myself the right to punch them right in the nose. Might go to jail for it... but I'm ok with that.

There is also the right to peacefully assemble.
Based on what I read in this article and in the other thread, these Christians were interfering with the rights of the homosexuals to assemble peacefully. That's why they got arrested.

They could have been shouting hate speech or Christian speech. The result probably would have been the same.

Did you, like vrai, miss that they were on the sidewalk and had police permission to have a counter demonstration?

 

[Ehesef]

Sorry Ehesef... no offense... it's just your post has been argued so many times in other treads that I'm hoping we don't have to argue it here again.

Sorry Sleuth, I didn't realize.

 

[crabcake]

I believe God when His word says He hates homosexual behavior and immorality of all types, fornication, lying, stealing, .... I can and will proclaim the Word. I believe in eternal life. If this is all there is, then humankind sure are a miserable lot. And this is the Religion forum.

You have a right to think that, and yes, in the religion forum, you have the right to proclaim that. But -- regardless of yours/my beliefs -- at the side of someone who is dying, I think it's incredibly thoughtless to say "because you like men, you're going to hell."

 

[2ndAmendment]

Isn't the Bible just stories that were written down later from memory? And how many times has it been translated? So how is one 100% sure that what the Bible said is the absolute truth. I believe that yes, it is based on truth, but a lot of things have changed in the last 2000 years, maybe the Bible should be taken with a grain of salt. Call me a blaspheme, whatever, these are just my beliefs.

This subject has been covered many times in this forum. Do a search of the Religion forum. One good one is here http://forums.somd.com/showthread.php?p=694018#post694018
by someone other than myself. There are others by me as well. Try the discussion on http://forums.somd.com/showthread.php?t=39893&page=5&pp=15

 

[2ndAmendment]

You have a right to think that, and yes, in the religion forum, you have the right to proclaim that. But -- regardless of yours/my beliefs -- at the side of someone who is dying, I think it's incredibly thoughtless to say "because you like men, you're going to hell."

I would never say that at someone's dying bedside. I don't decide who goes to hell, God does. If I did not know if they were a Christian, I would offer to tell them and pray with them. You must have developed a low opinion of me.

 

[crabcake]

I would never say that at someone's dying bedside. I don't decide who goes to hell, God does. If I did not know if they were a Christian, I would offer to tell them and pray with them. You must have developed a low opinion of me.

No, I didn't develop a low opinion of you. I'm simply going by what I read here. :shrug: If I knew a member of my family was dying (whether at their dying bedside or upon learning the news they are going to die from aids), saying that it's b/c they're gay is the last thing I would think of to say to them.

 

[Tonio]

You have a right to think that, and yes, in the religion forum, you have the right to proclaim that. But -- regardless of yours/my beliefs -- at the side of someone who is dying, I think it's incredibly thoughtless to say "because you like men, you're going to hell."

Not just thoughtless, but also cruel. That's a big reason I'm not a fundamentalist--despite claims to the contrary, the fundamentalist belief system seems to offers an image of God that is unforgiving, perfectionistic, and impossible to please.

 

[2ndAmendment]

No, I didn't develop a low opinion of you. I'm simply going by what I read here. :shrug: If I knew a member of my family was dying (whether at their dying bedside or upon learning the news they are going to die from aids), saying that it's b/c they're gay is the last thing I would think of to say to them.

Pardon me, but apparently you need to go back and read what I posted, but to save you the trouble, here is a recap. My cousin told me he was a queer when he was about 19 or 20. He did not have ADIS at the time or at least that anyone was aware of. I told him about what the Bible said. He lived until he was in his late 30s or early 40's and died of AIDS. Got it?

 

[sleuth]

Did you, like vrai, miss that they were on the sidewalk and had police permission to have a counter demonstration?

As I understood it... they had permission to counter-demonstrate.
But as I also understood it, it got to the point where the Christian group wa harassing the homosexual group by interfering with their right to peacefully assemble.

 

[crabcake]

Pardon me, but apparently you need to go back and read what I posted, but to save you the trouble, here is a recap. My cousin told me he was a queer when he was about 19 or 20. He did not have ADIS at the time or at least that anyone was aware of. I told him about what the Bible said. He lived until he was in his late 30s or early 40's and died of AIDS. Got it?

Yea, I got it. Sounded quite different the first time though.

My cousin who died of AIDS was a homosexual and I told him it was sin. I would have been wrong not to. If he had listen to me when he was young before he was infected, he might be alive today. If a homosexual confronts me with homosexual behavior, I will proclaim my faith. I will try to be loving, but I will not give in.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Not just thoughtless, but also cruel. That's a big reason I'm not a fundamentalist--despite claims to the contrary, the fundamentalist belief system seems to offers an image of God that is unforgiving, perfectionistic, and impossible to please.

Boy did you miss that. The fundamentalists, as you put it, believe that God knows we are so bad that we can't do anything that is pure and holy of our own volition and that God provided Himself as the only sacrifice needed for humans to be reconciled to Him. The Bible states that we are not to continue to sin after we accept Christ, not because we are to earn anything but because we should love and obey God.

Simple, huh? Too bad so many people want to make it so hard.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Yea, I got it. Sounded quite different the first time though.

The clue was here

My cousin who died of AIDS was a homosexual and I told him it was sin. I would have been wrong not to. If he had listen to me when he was young before he was infected, he might be alive today. If a homosexual confronts me with homosexual behavior, I will proclaim my faith. I will try to be loving, but I will not give in.

 

[crabcake]

The clue was here

My apologies for missing "the clue". I guess I was still somewhat shocked by the first two righteous sentences to notice.

 

[mAlice]

As much as I hate to post in this forum anymore, I have to interject. The only perscecution I'm witnessing is from self proclaimed christians directed toward anyone and everyone who does not believe the same things.

 

[Tonio]

Boy did you miss that. The fundamentalists, as you put it, believe that God knows we are so bad that we can't do anything that is pure and holy of our own volition and that God provided Himself as the only sacrifice needed for humans to be reconciled to Him. The Bible states that we are not to continue to sin after we accept Christ, not because we are to earn anything but because we should love and obey God.

While I understand that, my point is that it doesn't come across like that. It comes across like the fundamentalists are personally angry with the people they judge to be sinners. In your description of your conversation with your brother, it sounded like you were angry with him for being gay, and that you yourself (not God) were condemning him to hell. I don't know what your brother thought, but I can imagine him thinking that you didn't love him anymore. That is my point--fundamentalism seems to describe God's love as conditional.