This is for you rraley

[rraley]

Originally posted by Toxick
No. It's because you like, admire and tout Bill Clinton - an admitted Draft-Dodger - and out of the same side of your face, you decry Bush because he was in the National Guard, which you define as a form of cowardice and/or draft-dodging.

Joining the National Guard in 1968 was a way to get out of serving in the Vietnam War. I don't mean to say that President Bush was a draft-dodger and his form of avoiding that was was much more honorable than burning a draft card. I am making a contrast - one man decided to go to war, one decided he was going to stay here. That's a difference that I think should be out there. I think that the American people should know that there is a candidate running for president who has seen war, has killed the enemy, saved men's lives, and earned recognition. I am not demeaning the National Guard of today, which not only protects America but is also shipped away to Iraq to protect that nation.

As for Kerry first applying for a draft deferrment, I did not know that. While that may be something that people may frown upon, I still believe that he showed great honor in deciding to enlist in the Navy. But I do agree that it is not totally forthcoming to leave that out.

 

[Toxick]

Originally posted by rraley
Joining the National Guard in 1968 was a way to get out of serving in the Vietnam War. I don't mean to say that President Bush was a draft-dodger and his form of avoiding that was was much more honorable than burning a draft card. I am making a contrast - one man decided to go to war, one decided he was going to stay here. That's a difference that I think should be out there.

And this explains your warm-fuzzies for Clinton... how?

I didn't even mention Kerry's name.




Personally, I don't care about any of their service. 30 years is a very long time, by any human being's measuring stick. I'm just pointing out the apparent dichotomy in your philosophy, which you refuse to acknowledge.

 

[rraley]

Originally posted by Toxick
And this explains your warm-fuzzies for Clinton... how?

I didn't even mention Kerry's name.

Personally, I don't care about any of their service. 30 years is a very long time, by any human being's measuring stick. I'm just pointing out the apparent dichotomy in your philosophy, which you refuse to acknowledge.

Do you want to know why I like Bill Clinton? He was a pragmatic centrist to offered common-sense solutions. He had so much charisma and a speaking ability that can be matched by no one. He was born in poverty, in a terribly dysfunctional family, and he was able to go on to Georgetown, then Yale Law, and Oxford. Unlike his 92 opponent, Clinton seemed to really care about high unemployment and he really did feel our pain, because he himself had to go through it. His first four years, Clinton helped to set the ground for a balanced budget and he passed NAFTA as well as an economic package that led to the creation of 22 million jobs, so he deserved another four. He stopped the ethnic genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo while passing an international treaty to stop global warming. This is why I like Bill Clinton. There are negatives to him, but I think that what he did that was good, far overshadows the mistakes he made.

The reason that I establish the contrast between Kerry and Bush and their military service is because it is a way of rebutting GOP criticism of Kerry's strength and his inability to deal with military matters. That is why I bring it up.

 

[Toxick]

Originally posted by rraley
Do you want to know why I like Bill Clinton?

Sigh.... No.

No, I don't want to know why you like Bill Clinton.

Originally posted by rraley
The reason that I establish the contrast between Kerry and Bush and their military service is because it is a way of rebutting GOP criticism of Kerry's strength and his inability to deal with military matters. That is why I bring it up.

Be that as it may, it is hypocritical to put one draft dodger up on a pedistal while slamming another perceived draft-dodger: Based. On. Draft. Dodging. Criteria.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by rraley
As for Kerry first applying for a draft deferrment, I did not know that. While that may be something that people may frown upon, I still believe that he showed great honor in deciding to enlist in the Navy. But I do agree that it is not totally forthcoming to leave that out.

I don't frown on the point of applying or even obtaining a deferment, I don’t like how he presents himself as being ready, willing, and able to jump to the needs of the country when in fact he was doing his best to avoid service. Once the deferment was denied he did the right thing, after all he didn't "run over to Canada" and he did the smart thing by not waiting to become an infantryman with the luck of the lotto. Which for me is no different then Bush getting into the Guard, which also was a smart and right thing to do?

 

[rraley]

Originally posted by Toxick
Be that as it may, it is hypocritical to put one draft dodger up on a pedistal while slamming another perceived draft-dodger: Based. On. Draft. Dodging. Criteria.

When you tell me that you honestly did not look down on Bill Clinton for his draft-dodging, then can really say that I am hypocrtical.

On another note, hypocrisy, I think, is part of American politics. There is a case for both sides being hypocritical. I mean the Democratic Party is the biggest defender of the Bill of Rights out there, except for the second amendment, which our party sadly thinks should be nullified because its purpose is to establish militias, not gun ownership rights (such bs). Meanwhile, the Republican Party crusades against spending and then passes the largest transportation funding bill ever and the largest military budgets ever while a Republican president with a Republican Congress oversees the largest expansion of government since LBJ. So, we could talk in circles for months about how the other side is hypocritical, but I think that that is counterproductive.

 

[rraley]

Originally posted by Ken King
Which for me is no different then Bush getting into the Guard, which also was a smart and right thing to do?

Yes, President Bush made a better decision about that war than the draft card burners.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by rraley
When you tell me that you honestly did not look down on Bill Clinton for his draft-dodging, then can really say that I am hypocrtical.

On another note, hypocrisy, I think, is part of American politics. There is a case for both sides being hypocritical. I mean the Democratic Party is the biggest defender of the Bill of Rights out there, except for the second amendment, which our party sadly thinks should be nullified because its purpose is to establish militias, not gun ownership rights (such bs). Meanwhile, the Republican Party crusades against spending and then passes the largest transportation funding bill ever and the largest military budgets ever while a Republican president with a Republican Congress oversees the largest expansion of government since LBJ. So, we could talk in circles for months about how the other side is hypocritical, but I think that that is counterproductive.

So after you are proved a hypocrit and cannot get out of it you "normalize" hypocrisy? "Well ok, I am a hypocrit but thats ok because everyone is."

 

[rraley]

Originally posted by Pete
So after you are proved a hypocrit and cannot get out of it you "normalize" hypocrisy? "Well ok, I am a hypocrit but thats ok because everyone is."

Well, you didn't need proof...you considered me a hypocrite from the start. I don't consider myself a hypocrite because I do not see a lack of consistency on my part. I just see John Kerry just as strong as George W. Bush as strong as he is and I point to his war record as proof. I commented on hypocrisy and its nature in politics because I believe that Americans need to stop bickering over issues like this.

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by rraley
His first four years, Clinton helped to set the ground for a balanced budget and he passed NAFTA as well as an economic package that led to the creation of 22 million jobs, so he deserved another four.

The balanced budget happened because of one event that did happen during his tenure in office - he lost Congress to the Republicans. *THEY* made the difference in balancing the budget. Clinton was so against balancing the budget, he shut down the government.

As a consequence, the economy grew and so did tax revenues.

The other big thing that happened on his watch was the growth of the Internet. Something he had very little to do with.

His "economic stimulus package" in '93 was a joke. Linking THAT thing to 22 million jobs is a bigger one.

 

[SurfaceTension]

Lessee if I have this straight....
On the one hand we have a guy who tried to get a deferment, couldn't, so he enlisted in the Navy thinking he'd see little combat.

On the other hand we have a guy who tried to get a deferment, couldn't, so he joined the Guard thinking he'd see little combat.

That about right?

 

[Toxick]

Originally posted by rraley
When you tell me that you honestly did not look down on Bill Clinton for his draft-dodging, then can really say that I am hypocrtical.

What do my views of Clinton have anything to do with whether you are a hypocrite or not.

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by Shakezula
I can't BELIEVE anyone would be so shallow to think Obama could have any relevance to Osama. I actually thought that was a joke when I read that.

Shakezula,

I think I was the first to post that comparison that night, and it was meant as a joke. I am amazed that people are debating it. Dumbies.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Im just curious why so many people and the media seem to think that because someone having been in the military makes them strong on defense? I have met quite a few people in the military (although less than in the general population) that I wouldn't put in charge of a portapotty. Kerry just doesn't seem like someone I would wan't to follow into battle. He does seem like someone that I may want filling out my recquisition forms though.

 

[Dixie]

Okay Pete - Let's move on to History 101. Abraham Lincoln was a volunteer and elected Captain in the Black Hawk war of 1832. Harry Truman was a private in the National Guard and later a Captain in the Army Officer Reserve Corps. Hypocrite is still spelled hypocrite not hypocrit. Eloquent is eloquent not elloquent. What subject do we tackle next sweet pea?

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Dixie
Okay Pete - Let's move on to History 101. Abraham Lincoln was a volunteer and elected Captain in the Black Hawk war of 1832. Harry Truman was a private in the National Guard and later a Captain in the Army Officer Reserve Corps. Hypocrite is still spelled hypocrite not hypocrit. Eloquent is eloquent not elloquent. What subject do we tackle next sweet pea?

Whut evere u want, Im gam. I thunk its kewl u have decided picen on my spellin is ezier than sticken to ur worn owt liberul gibrish. I'll be ur huckleberry.

U R rite that Lincloln was a mebur uv da militia in da blackhawk war. It lasted 3 month only one month shy of Kerrys nam tour. He us not however a regular army officer he wuz da militia.

U R rite about True-man too. I forgot he did WWI in tha artillerie. I evun watched a documentari bout him once where he yelled FIRE an dat feller shoot da big gun.. He did much more than Karry or Bush did too.

 

[Pete]

I wunder if Lincon made a mooovie rekreatin his war ekspoyts. It wooda been hard but day had piture drawers who cooda drawed da pictures insteada a moovie.

 

[Dixie]

You truly are desperate aren't you?

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Dixie
You truly are desperate aren't you?

I wuz thinkin you wuz the one who wuz desperat. You R da one who stoped talkin bout good stuff an got all intrested in my spellin a bility. I figured U was jus tryin to make me feel in timidated at ur smarts wif spellin an how dumb I iz at spellin and figured dat caus I mis spell a wurd or two I am not az smart az U iz. I disgree but ifin it makes U feel more better bout youself it least I culd do.

 

[Pete]

Deer dick-see,

I juss lissen to Kerrys gurls tell stories about der paw. I liked da one bout savin de hamster did U? It almoss make me get a tear thinin bout him givin cpr to da poor hamster. I think dem gurls should be more careful wif der pets.

hugs, ur hucleberry Pete