Today's speed traps - a new record!

[Ken King]

I don't think so. looks to me like Ken stated the law as written, where ccrc1 put it lamens terms. I'm not seeing a difference.

In laymen's terms, if the officer is using the privelege then, by law, they must at least run with audible signal. Otherwise the officer should operate his vehicle in accordance with all of the laws, not those he chooses to follow.

 

[Ponytail]

... (1) Subject to paragraph (2) of this subsection, the privileges set forth in this section apply only while the emergency vehicle is using audible and visual signals that meet the requirements of § 22-218 of this article, except that an emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle need not be equipped with or display the visual signals. ...

But ken, you even highlighted the section that says, "...except that an emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle need not be equipped with or display the visual signals." that tells me that he does NOT have to use visual or audible signals. :shrug:

 

[Ken King]

But ken, you even highlighted the section that says, "...except that an emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle need not be equipped with or display the visual signals." that tells me that he does NOT have to use visual or audible signals. :shrug:

Is an audible signal visual for you?

 

[Ponytail]

Is an audible signal visual for you?

if it's loud enough it makes me see red, does that count?

Sorry Ken, but I think you are picking the flyshit out of the pepper here.

 

[BS Gal]

But ken, you even highlighted the section that says, "...except that an emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle need not be equipped with or display the visual signals." that tells me that he does NOT have to use visual or audible signals. :shrug:

The cop I saw had audio and visual signals available to him. Truth be told, he scared the crap out of me because I didn't realize he was coming at, oh between 80 and 100 mph, in that lane. I saw him, just didn't realize how fast he was going and ALMOST pulled into his lane cause I knew I could step on it and get up to the posted speed limit quickly. I would assume if he was responding to an emergency, he would have flipped on his lights and gone through the red light, but he didn't.

 

[Ken King]

if it's loud enough it makes me see red, does that count?

Sorry Ken, but I think you are picking the flyshit out of the pepper here.

No digging in sh!t here, you realize that there can be police vehicles that do not carry visual signals (some unmarked types). Thus the legislature specifically accounted for them and grant the emergency vehicle privelege for police but still demand the use of the audible signal to exercise that privelege.

I don't know why you don't understand simple English, I guess you froze your brain while in Canada.

 

[desertrat]

No digging in sh!t here, you realize that there can be police vehicles that do not carry visual signals (some unmarked types). Thus the legislature specifically accounted for them and grant the emergency vehicle privelege for police but still demand the use of the audible signal to exercise that privelege.

I don't know why you don't understand simple English, I guess you froze your brain while in Canada.

There are a few police that could use a refresher course it sounds like to me. Maybe our Sheriff doesn't stress safe driving and adhering to the laws as well as he should. Thanks for the lesson KK

 

[itsbob]

I usually don't let these types of things bother me but this one rubbed me the wrong way. Here I was in full uniform, in a marked patrol car and the first thing this bozo thought was I was doing something wrong.
Some days the folks we work, for make it really hard to stand tall.

OK, so you are a cop, I get that.

In your career, how many fellow officers have you stopped for speeding in their personal cars?? How many of them have you given a ticket?

And I don't care who you are, if it's reckless driving for me to driving down 235 at 80MPH.. it's JUST as reckless for a cop to do it in his police car. Last I checked, lights and sirens don't turn off the law of physics...

SO if I'm doing for example 70 MPH on 235, and cop from a deadstop catches up to me and stops me within 1 - 1.5 miles.. how fast was he going to catch me, a lawless speeder?

 

[ccrc1]

Ken King, I think I will pay attention to the last sentence on each of your posts. Just so you know, I am just a happy guy so I guess you are out of luck. Sorry bout that.
The Maryland Motor Vehicle code is not the only set of laws that govern our operation. Court Decisions and Maryland Rules and Regulations apply as well.
Stop looking for a debate and think for just a second now.
If a policeman was not allowed to pace a speeding motorist, without first turning on his siren (audible device), do you really think that Judges in all 24 Maryland counties would be finding people guilty for speeding every day, for citations where the police have issued those citations based on pacing the violator? Don't you think that some legal beagle would have figured that out long ago? The higher courts have determined that the police have need to exert some privileges to manage/maintain and enforce traffic on the highways.
Now I want to be perfecty clear (jeez I am starting to sound like a politician) in my explaination. This does not protect the officer should his operation of the emergency vehicle cause a collsion. He is to operate the vehicle with due care and safety for others. If he does not, he will be found at fault in the collision and disiplined accordingly.
As I said before, I would be happy to try to answer legitimate questions, but I will pass on the debate banter. So far most of the "questions" have been asked to initiate a debate.
Those of you who sent me messages, thank you for the kind words. I am just learning how to negotiate this site, so I am unsure how I answer you back, but I will figure it out eventually.
Ken King, again I am sorry I could not bring a little sunshine to your day!

 

[Ken King]

Ken King, I think I will pay attention to the last sentence on each of your posts. Just so you know, I am just a happy guy so I guess you are out of luck. Sorry bout that.
The Maryland Motor Vehicle code is not the only set of laws that govern our operation. Court Decisions and Maryland Rules and Regulations apply as well.
Stop looking for a debate and think for just a second now.
If a policeman was not allowed to pace a speeding motorist, without first turning on his siren (audible device), do you really think that Judges in all 24 Maryland counties would be finding people guilty for speeding every day, for citations where the police have issued those citations based on pacing the violator? Don't you think that some legal beagle would have figured that out long ago? The higher courts have determined that the police have need to exert some privileges to manage/maintain and enforce traffic on the highways.
Now I want to be perfecty clear (jeez I am starting to sound like a politician) in my explaination. This does not protect the officer should his operation of the emergency vehicle cause a collsion. He is to operate the vehicle with due care and safety for others. If he does not, he will be found at fault in the collision and disiplined accordingly.
As I said before, I would be happy to try to answer legitimate questions, but I will pass on the debate banter. So far most of the "questions" have been asked to initiate a debate.
Those of you who sent me messages, thank you for the kind words. I am just learning how to negotiate this site, so I am unsure how I answer you back, but I will figure it out eventually.
Ken King, again I am sorry I could not bring a little sunshine to your day!

First off, down at the bottom of each post, is just a signature line. You know what those are right?

We aren't talking about pacing a speeder, which in my mind would be a pursuit. We are talking about abuses of privilege that some officers partake in as was initially described. But just so you are clear you do not, by your position as an officer, have the right to break the laws of the state unless it is necessary in the performance of your duties. And I challenge you to show me any piece of documentation that says that you do.

It was obvious by the descriptive nature of the conduct being discussed that the officer was not actively responding to an emergency or he would have used the lights and siren and gone through any traffic control signal. Your lame attempt to justify what he was doing shows nothing but the “better then you” attitude that some officers carry.

I regularly have the highest regard for those that perform tasks related to our safety but every once in a while you run across one that thinks that they are so above everyone else it is sickening. They are of the mind that they can do whatever in the Hell they want and that simply isn’t the truth. And the incident initially mentioned is in my mind one of those cases. Unless that officer was actively responding to a call there would have been no need to travel that fast and if the call required that kind of speed he should have damn well had his emergency gear activated per the law.

Here is another example of abuse I observed today at 15:50 today at the Leonardtown Food Lion. MSP, T-11, stops his vehicle in the fire-lane, leaving the vehicle running he enters Food Lion and goes up to the Customer Service counter to obtain or send a money-gram. He was there for better then 7 minutes while I stood in line waiting to check out. Now show me where in the law, or in you local procedures, or in your training that it allows you to block a fire-lane when not actively performing your duty?

Who do you guys think you are? Congressmen?

 

[willie]

Since he only reads the last line, that was a really low blow.
quote KK:Who do you guys think you are? Congressmen?
Speaking of Congressmen, the way you guys n' gals want the cops to toe the line, you sound like John Murtha vs. the U.S. Marine Corps.

The only problem I have with the cops is not bearing down on drug users and dealers.

 

[Ken King]

Since he only reads the last line, that was a really low blow.
quote KK:Who do you guys think you are? Congressmen?
Speaking of Congressmen, the way you guys n' gals want the cops to toe the line, you sound like John Murtha vs. the U.S. Marine Corps.

The only problem I have with the cops is not bearing down on drug users and dealers.

He didn't say he only reads the last line.

And your Murtha comparison is off-base as Murtha wants them to not do the job they are there for and to come home and we want police officers to obey the laws just as we are required to do. Big difference isn't it? BTW, why shouldn't they adhere to the law?

 

[ccrc1]

But just so you are clear you do not, by your position as an officer, have the right to break the laws of the state unless it is necessary in the performance of your duties.

You are absolutely 100% correct, this is the point I also was trying to make. See, you and I aren't as far apart as we thought.

I would ask you a favor though. Please do not paint me (or my entire profession) with the same brush as you would a few, who, cannot grasp the idea, that they should try do the right thing every day, even if nobody is watching.

In my agency, using emergency lights and siren when not required is a violation of our standard operational proceedure and carrys a very stiff sanction. In referance to your comment about the trooper, I agree, it looks bad to the public and he/she should be concious of where and how he parks his vehicle. We should lead by example.
If you don't mind I would like to use a few of these posts to show newer officers in training that when they do certain things that may be very legitimate in our law enforcement effort, they are perceived and misunderstood as unappropriate by the public.

 

[Ken King]

You are absolutely 100% correct, this is the point I also was trying to make. See, you and I aren't as far apart as we thought.

I would ask you a favor though. Please do not paint me (or my entire profession) with the same brush as you would a few, who, cannot grasp the idea, that they should try do the right thing every day, even if nobody is watching.

In my agency, using emergency lights and siren when not required is a violation of our standard operational proceedure and carrys a very stiff sanction. In referance to your comment about the trooper, I agree, it looks bad to the public and he/she should be concious of where and how he parks his vehicle. We should lead by example.
If you don't mind I would like to use a few of these posts to show newer officers in training that when they do certain things that may be very legitimate in our law enforcement effort, they are perceived and misunderstood as unappropriate by the public.

I don't paint with the wide brush, that is why I used the term "some". I would even wager that at least 90% of the officers out there do it right and this isn't about them, it's simply the 10% or so that think they are above the law that make the problem for all of us.

I think it would be great to share with the old and new officers. The public sees a lot of what is going on, some is understood, some not. You should emphasize to them that if they do something wrong they are more then likely going to be seen too.

 

[ACESRT04]

I really don't care what these cops have to say. I have a court date next month thanks to a state trooper who didn't yield merging from Route 4 onto 235. He almost side swipped me so I down shifted and accelerated because it was a shorter distance to get ahead then it would be to slam on the brakes and get behind him. ONLY because of him nearly wrecking into me did I have to accelerate. He then proceeds to fly up behind me with lights on stating without any radar or laser device he paced me doing 70 in a 55. Then he proceeds to tell me I came out of no where and that it wasn't his fault. I was in the right lane for over 4 lights. So I have NO respect for any of the pigs around here.

 

[mAlice]

I really don't care what these cops have to say. I have a court date next month thanks to a state trooper who didn't yield merging from Route 4 onto 235. He almost side swipped me so I down shifted and accelerated because it was a shorter distance to get ahead then it would be to slam on the brakes and get behind him. ONLY because of him nearly wrecking into me did I have to accelerate. He then proceeds to fly up behind me with lights on stating without any radar or laser device he paced me doing 70 in a 55. Then he proceeds to tell me I came out of no where and that it wasn't his fault. I was in the right lane for over 4 lights. So I have NO respect for any of the pigs around here.

Good luck in court. I hope you win, but I find it unlikely. I have no doubt that your story is true. Some of the cops around here drive worse than the teenagers.

 

[BS Gal]

I had a State Trooper on my butt on Chancellor's Run one day. I was doing the speed limit (given there was a State Trooper behind me) and she TAILGAITED me to the point that I was uncomfortable in that I thought she might rear-end me. I finally pulled off to the shoulder so she could pass and she proceeded to do it again to the person that was in front of me originally. I got her car # and called the State Police on the next working day. They told me she wasn't on patrol that day......Hmmmmmmm.

 

[K_Jo]

I had a State Trooper on my butt on Chancellor's Run one day. I was doing the speed limit (given there was a State Trooper behind me) and she TAILGAITED me to the point that I was uncomfortable in that I thought she might rear-end me. I finally pulled off to the shoulder so she could pass and she proceeded to do it again to the person that was in front of me originally. I got her car # and called the State Police on the next working day. They told me she wasn't on patrol that day......Hmmmmmmm.

I had a cop do that to me on 488 early one morning. I had the cruise control set to the speed limit. He rode my ass for a long time, then got in front of me and slowed down to about 35 so fast, I had to slam on the brakes. He drove well under the speed limit for a little while, then sped off. It was really weird and it made my neck hurt.

 

[Pandora]

Good luck in court. I hope you win, but I find it unlikely. I have no doubt that your story is true. Some of the cops around here drive worse than the teenagers.

Rookies… I’ve seen some of the worse cop driving done by rookies.

 

[ACESRT04]

Good luck in court. I hope you win, but I find it unlikely. I have no doubt that your story is true. Some of the cops around here drive worse than the teenagers.

The best part is he said to me "I didn't see you, you came out of nowhere". I asked him if he was going to site himself for failure to yield. Only fair I thought since he quickly wrote me a ticket.