Today's speed traps - a new record!
- Thread starter John Z
- Start date
Well, in 26 years of doing police work, I have never been directed by any supervisor or commander to go out and generate $$$$$, ever!
I have never been givin a minimum number of citations or warnings to generate, but that leads me to your next complaint. If any policeman can drive up and down any of the major highways in Southern Maryland and not observe several aggressive traffic violations per 8 hour shift, they are absolutely not doing their job. Police supervisors expect their officers to perform their job, and lack of productivity is addressed when it occures.
And as for your last complaint, statistics. This is a valid factor in traffic enforcement, but not how you have implied. This is where I do get pressure to increase enforcement efforts by commanders. When a particular stretch of road shows an increase in personal injury or fatal collisions, we are directed into that area to reduce speeds and aggressive driving. Bottom line, bring the statistics down, and do it now!!
This is accomplished quite effectively with high visibilty radar teams, the word gets out (just like this thread), folks slow down, quit driving stupid in those areas and guess what, traffic collisions decrease. Its really that simple.
If governments were just interested in generating money, they could simply put up Radar cameras on routes 301, 5, 4, and 235. The way folks drive on those highways alone could generate millions of dollars each year!
I have never been givin a minimum number of citations or warnings to generate, but that leads me to your next complaint. If any policeman can drive up and down any of the major highways in Southern Maryland and not observe several aggressive traffic violations per 8 hour shift, they are absolutely not doing their job. Police supervisors expect their officers to perform their job, and lack of productivity is addressed when it occures.
And as for your last complaint, statistics. This is a valid factor in traffic enforcement, but not how you have implied. This is where I do get pressure to increase enforcement efforts by commanders. When a particular stretch of road shows an increase in personal injury or fatal collisions, we are directed into that area to reduce speeds and aggressive driving. Bottom line, bring the statistics down, and do it now!!
This is accomplished quite effectively with high visibilty radar teams, the word gets out (just like this thread), folks slow down, quit driving stupid in those areas and guess what, traffic collisions decrease. Its really that simple.
If governments were just interested in generating money, they could simply put up Radar cameras on routes 301, 5, 4, and 235. The way folks drive on those highways alone could generate millions of dollars each year!
W
Wenchy
Guest
ccrc1 said:
Radar cameras are the way to go , and then you all could be freed up to take care of crime. The cameras would deter speeding, and generate money until the speeding goes away.
It makes too much sense, so what are the chances of that happening?
itsbob
I bowl overhand
They've been using them in Germany for 20 or 30 years.. but the court system here couldn't handle the deluge of people trying to get off on some kind of techniclality.. then the ACLU would step in and force them to stop using them while we spend millions in the courtroom in litigation with them.. and after 3 4 or 5 years we finally say fugit, and take all the camera equipment that we just spent millions of dollars on to the crusher and have it destroyed..Wenchy said:
W
Wenchy
Guest
itsbob said:
Sucks doesn't it?
We had the red light cameras here for several years. The city took them out saying it was "too costly".
What does Germany do that we don't, or is it the ACLU?
itsbob
I bowl overhand
They take responsibility for thier actions or inaction...
If it's YOUR car and it was speeding, doesn't matter who was driving it, you, the owner, are responsible and will pay the ticket..
They even hae cops that take money at the roadside when they issue you a ticket.. other then the receipt for your money, there is no record or no "points" against your license if you pay the fine when you get stopped, AND the fine is usually half of what it will be it you don't pay it on the roadside..
OF course our problem there is, our cops are just as dishonest as a regular citizen, and they would have sizable savings accounts.
If it's YOUR car and it was speeding, doesn't matter who was driving it, you, the owner, are responsible and will pay the ticket..
They even hae cops that take money at the roadside when they issue you a ticket.. other then the receipt for your money, there is no record or no "points" against your license if you pay the fine when you get stopped, AND the fine is usually half of what it will be it you don't pay it on the roadside..
OF course our problem there is, our cops are just as dishonest as a regular citizen, and they would have sizable savings accounts.
Freakyfreak
My Freak!
Rt 234 50mph ..Retarded!
Rt 235 from California to Rt5..55mph . Retarded!
70MPH bumper to bumper during rush hour.Do that when you have the whole road to yourself..It's ticket time..Retarded!
Crossovers.. retards drive on left hand side of them all the time and cause major accidents...Do you see cops trying to detour that crap? Noooooooo they are sitting at the bottom of the hill where you pick up that extra 3 to 5 mph.
Speeding Cameras to patrol our cars,,.retarded....More retarded laws that where written by the insurance companies political puppets.
Click it or ticket..How retarded,,motorcyclist don't wear seat belts or have air bags..Safty my azz! It's another law past to keep them Insurance companies contributions coming in during election time.
DUI, DWI What a frickin retarded racket that is..Drink 2 beers and you're in a heap a trouble...More insurance company contributions.
55 MPH..Same Insurance company BS.
Wake up and see the real world. Politicians don't spend millions of dollars campaigning for a office that pays $150,000..Most of those campaign funds come from insurance companies and insurance companies are nothing more than odds makers.
Slow um down to a crawl, strap um in tight and arrest um for being out at night,,.That sure does increase the insurance companies odds.
OH YEA and give um lots of points so the insurance companies can afford to make bigger contributions next year.
Rt 235 from California to Rt5..55mph . Retarded!
70MPH bumper to bumper during rush hour.Do that when you have the whole road to yourself..It's ticket time..Retarded!
Crossovers.. retards drive on left hand side of them all the time and cause major accidents...Do you see cops trying to detour that crap? Noooooooo they are sitting at the bottom of the hill where you pick up that extra 3 to 5 mph.
Speeding Cameras to patrol our cars,,.retarded....More retarded laws that where written by the insurance companies political puppets.
Click it or ticket..How retarded,,motorcyclist don't wear seat belts or have air bags..Safty my azz! It's another law past to keep them Insurance companies contributions coming in during election time.
DUI, DWI What a frickin retarded racket that is..Drink 2 beers and you're in a heap a trouble...More insurance company contributions.
55 MPH..Same Insurance company BS.
Wake up and see the real world. Politicians don't spend millions of dollars campaigning for a office that pays $150,000..Most of those campaign funds come from insurance companies and insurance companies are nothing more than odds makers.
Slow um down to a crawl, strap um in tight and arrest um for being out at night,,.That sure does increase the insurance companies odds.
OH YEA and give um lots of points so the insurance companies can afford to make bigger contributions next year.
TexasPride77
Eat More Beef, Less Chkn
I would think that the fact that speed traps are being announced whether on boards such as this - or by letting others know by flashing your lights as you pass them on the road....is not an issue to patrolmen....this actually helps the them by giving them less to do. If people slow down for what ever the reason...that is all that matters. Some people just need to slow down...they drive way too fast. Regardless if you think that the speed limit is retarded....there are a lot of people who obey the limit - and that sure is frustrating - right? I too speed....i like to go 65-70 down 235 and most of the time the slower traffic stays in the right lane (as it should). But if i get pulled over...I’m not going to blame my actions on a "trap". Its only a trap if you are doing something wrong. Why is this spoken about as if it is a bad thing? If you cant do the time - don’t do the crime!
I appreciate all the efforts that patrolmen have done to help prevent danger out there on the roads. I really feel that they want to help keep everyone safe from one another and themselves. We're all human and make mistakes. We just don’t always realize how our actions are going to affect someone else’s life. If you drink and drive - its not about you anymore - or your problems. You just drug everyone who is on the road at the time into your problems. That’s not fair is it. Two beers…not a big deal huh? Bottom line, responsible drinking does not involve driving. If you went out, had two beers, got into an accident when going home – how would you know if things could have been different had you not alcohol in your system at the time? Its hard to see how we act when under the influence – you only have your own perspective to judge things on – oh and by the way – everything seems normal to you. Why not go ask someone if they think you may have had too much do drink… for that matter – why not just ask them to give you a lift to the house?
So whether it is believed to be quotas, money, or what ever you may surmise as to the reason for occasional increased monitoring of the roads....just be grateful that your tax dollars are being put to use for good and those patrolmen are not at the local donut shop. They are out there for you...working for you...to keep you safe... perhaps from even yourself...
Now is that such a bad thing?
I appreciate all the efforts that patrolmen have done to help prevent danger out there on the roads. I really feel that they want to help keep everyone safe from one another and themselves. We're all human and make mistakes. We just don’t always realize how our actions are going to affect someone else’s life. If you drink and drive - its not about you anymore - or your problems. You just drug everyone who is on the road at the time into your problems. That’s not fair is it. Two beers…not a big deal huh? Bottom line, responsible drinking does not involve driving. If you went out, had two beers, got into an accident when going home – how would you know if things could have been different had you not alcohol in your system at the time? Its hard to see how we act when under the influence – you only have your own perspective to judge things on – oh and by the way – everything seems normal to you. Why not go ask someone if they think you may have had too much do drink… for that matter – why not just ask them to give you a lift to the house?
So whether it is believed to be quotas, money, or what ever you may surmise as to the reason for occasional increased monitoring of the roads....just be grateful that your tax dollars are being put to use for good and those patrolmen are not at the local donut shop. They are out there for you...working for you...to keep you safe... perhaps from even yourself...
Now is that such a bad thing?
desertrat
0_0
I mostly agree, but two beers affects different people differently. Sure it slows your reactions and affects perception and judgement, but how much? Say my reaction time to a certain stimulus was .2 sec., after two beers it was .25. Might that not still be faster than a 70 year old man? What about someone who didn't get enough sleep the night before and fought with his wife that morning? Think their judgement would be better than a well restedTexasPride77 said:
individual who has had two beers? Using the same measuring stick, the breathalizer, isn't realistic. They should go back to coordination tests and let the police use their judgement more. What say?
TexasPride77
Eat More Beef, Less Chkn
I say that you shouldnt drink and drive...period. If you are in the position where you need to drive.... get a cab or call a friend.
I do agree with you that there is no such thing as a set standard for everyone and that alcohol affects everyone differently. More inportantly, however, if you find yourself in a position of being tested for drinking too much....you all ready did something wrong in the first place.......and no...it wasnt getting caught. Personally, I dont think that anyone should have put themselves in the position to be judged by the public/cops as to whether they drank too much in the first place. What does drinking responsibility mean to you? How far does that go?
Besides, my main points were not about just drinking and driving....it was about peoiple complaining about speed "traps"
I do agree with you that there is no such thing as a set standard for everyone and that alcohol affects everyone differently. More inportantly, however, if you find yourself in a position of being tested for drinking too much....you all ready did something wrong in the first place.......and no...it wasnt getting caught. Personally, I dont think that anyone should have put themselves in the position to be judged by the public/cops as to whether they drank too much in the first place. What does drinking responsibility mean to you? How far does that go?
Besides, my main points were not about just drinking and driving....it was about peoiple complaining about speed "traps"
woogie
Active Member
To the Police Officer who is posting here;
I must compliment you on "keeping your cool" while responding here.
Very good! Your comments are relevant and at least do explain a few
things that some don't know about. However, the main complaint is
(and so is mine) the "Law Enforcement Community" will muster an
extraordinary amount of manpower to do speed enforcement in the
name of "safety" and "crime fighting" and do it on a frequent basis
(and to be fair, it IS needed) yet on a ratio..howmany times to you
all muster the SAME amount of manpower to do drug busts, anti-car
jacking stings, gang interventions, etc? It just doesn't seem to be the
same efforts put out there. What about the crime in certain parts of
LP City and Great Mills? It's out in plain view! Where are you then?
(Disturbing the peace, Public nuisance, Possession/distribution of CDS)
What about the nuts that drive the local roads daily and read the news,
yak on their cell phones, shave etc? (Failure to maintain control, Failure
to stay in designated lane, Reckless operation) What about when citizens
call about "drivers" racing up and down neighborhood streets endangering
children, property, etc.? (Reckless driving) And there is NO response?
When called on this, the answer is usually "we don't have the manpower
or resources to cope with this". THAT'S what people are upset with
you guys about! The lopsided "priorities"!
Not bashing you in particular, just bashing the "problem".
As for the remarks (yup I admit to making 'em) about, "revenue", "quotas"
and the like. Well..."If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then
it MIGHT BE a duck!" This is just to illustrate the conclusions that the
citizens (us) come to when they see things like this in front of them and
when they are faced with the inaction/nonresponse to their other more
critical situations and are given the same old "explanations" by those in
a more official capacity than you.
Agreed....You have a rough job! The public needs you! You must remember
that the public does not know the things about your job that you do.
(The "news media" is a GREAT example of that!) The public only knows
what it sees in front of it. THAT is where the frustration comes in.
Hope this explains things a little better. Maybe you can offer some new
informative comments. I'm sure that folks here would appreciate them.
(Really!)
I must compliment you on "keeping your cool" while responding here.
Very good! Your comments are relevant and at least do explain a few
things that some don't know about. However, the main complaint is
(and so is mine) the "Law Enforcement Community" will muster an
extraordinary amount of manpower to do speed enforcement in the
name of "safety" and "crime fighting" and do it on a frequent basis
(and to be fair, it IS needed) yet on a ratio..howmany times to you
all muster the SAME amount of manpower to do drug busts, anti-car
jacking stings, gang interventions, etc? It just doesn't seem to be the
same efforts put out there. What about the crime in certain parts of
LP City and Great Mills? It's out in plain view! Where are you then?
(Disturbing the peace, Public nuisance, Possession/distribution of CDS)
What about the nuts that drive the local roads daily and read the news,
yak on their cell phones, shave etc? (Failure to maintain control, Failure
to stay in designated lane, Reckless operation) What about when citizens
call about "drivers" racing up and down neighborhood streets endangering
children, property, etc.? (Reckless driving) And there is NO response?
When called on this, the answer is usually "we don't have the manpower
or resources to cope with this". THAT'S what people are upset with
you guys about! The lopsided "priorities"!
Not bashing you in particular, just bashing the "problem".
As for the remarks (yup I admit to making 'em) about, "revenue", "quotas"
and the like. Well..."If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then
it MIGHT BE a duck!" This is just to illustrate the conclusions that the
citizens (us) come to when they see things like this in front of them and
when they are faced with the inaction/nonresponse to their other more
critical situations and are given the same old "explanations" by those in
a more official capacity than you.
Agreed....You have a rough job! The public needs you! You must remember
that the public does not know the things about your job that you do.
(The "news media" is a GREAT example of that!) The public only knows
what it sees in front of it. THAT is where the frustration comes in.
Hope this explains things a little better. Maybe you can offer some new
informative comments. I'm sure that folks here would appreciate them.
(Really!)
BS Gal
Voted Nicest in 08
I just have a problem with the cops driving really, really dangerously. I was coming up 235 the other morning and there was a cop FLYING up the road, probably doing 80+. When he saw he was gonna hit the red light at the Target intersection, he went into the left turn lane, patiently waited for the light to change for the turn, then cut a few people off and drove like a maniac past Pier 1 and Lowes, cutting two people off. He was in a hurry to get to the gas pumps at Public Works. They aren't setting any good examples with the way most of them drive. That really bothers me.
zimmie said:
Unless you are one, I wouldn't give folks advice that you are not sure of. I am one, and I can tell you that is absolutely not correct. If I am directed into a residental neighborhood with a posted limit that is 25 mph, you may find yourself being stopped for doing 30! I probably will issue a written warning to you for the first stop. If I catch you again in the same place, I will issue a citation to get my point across.
Officers can issue speeding citations for even several miles over the speed limit, most of us use a common sense approach, and as I stated before, my tolerance is usually 20mph. But, I stongly wouldn't recommend adding mph to the posted speeds because you think you won't get stopped. You will get suprised.This was the excuse one of the motorists who passed my patrol car when I was travelling the speed limit gave to me. "I thought the police would give you 10 mph before you would get stopped??" WRONG!
The fine as designated by the Chief Judge of the Maryland District Court is:
1 to 9 mph over the posted speed- $70.00 and 1 point
If folks on this site have legitimate questions about traffic enforcement, I would be happy to try to give you factual responces.
BS Gal
Voted Nicest in 08
ccrc1 said:
Here's one. There is a school in Loveville, by the MVA, which has flashing signs to slow down when signs are flashing, but NO PLACE does it tell you what speed to slow down to. What speed are you supposed to slow down to? Seems to me I remember it is 25, but everyone flies through there when the signs are flashing because there is NOTHING to tell you what to slow down to.
Oh, and in front of the Governmental Center in Leonardtown, you are supposed to slow to 30 because of Leonard Hall School. Now, when school is not in session, are you still required to go 30 or can you go 40? Also, since school is not in session, can you smoke around the school?
If the flashing lights are active in a designated school zone, the speed limit is 25 mph unless marked otherwise.
As far as the other school, if the roadway is posted for 30 mph, it applies during all hours unless the sign designates a specific time period.
The smoking issue I cannot answer, the school would have to address that for you. I believe that is a private school so the administation would determine that rule.
As far as the other school, if the roadway is posted for 30 mph, it applies during all hours unless the sign designates a specific time period.
The smoking issue I cannot answer, the school would have to address that for you. I believe that is a private school so the administation would determine that rule.
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Hi Woogie, nice to meet you even if its only electronicly. You are right about perceptions. Folks perceptions are their reality. In my occupation we have a lot of folks who love to tell us how to do our job. I often wondered how they would react if I showed up at their place of employment and told them how to do their job, even if I had no idea what their job really is or how to accomplish it.
BSgals question is a perfect example of misunderstood perceptions and I am glad she asked it. Officers driving fast, he must be going to the 7-11 for a sale on donuts, right?
First, the officer is driving a vehicle that is registered as an Emergency Vehicle through the Maryland MVA. That grants the vehicle some privileges (for law enforcement purposes) not afforded to other vehicles on the highway. Exceeding the speed limit is one of them. (that privilege however does not allow him to operate the vehicle in a careless manner that causes an accident) Think about it for a second, if the patrol car was not exempted, every time the officer paced you for speeding, he would be commiting the same violation you are.
Now to the meat and potatoes..........
We (the police) know that when folks call the police, even for trivial stuff, its a big deal to them. They expect to hang up the phone, walk to the front door and see me coming up the walkway. In Southern Maryland, a lot of our territory is spread out over large distances. The officer may just be trying to get to calls for service (and he may have several holding at once) even though they do not warrant the emergency lights/siren. He may be responding to a domestic call at a location where he has been before, and knows that things get pretty heated quickly at that address. He may be responding as a back up unit for a call where the primary unit has called on the scene with a problem, and he is coming from 10 miles away. I can sit here and type dozens and dozens of reasons why the officers may be legitimately hurrying up and down the roads, but most folks just think the worst, because thats what they like to think. Cops are unfortunately one of those professions that people like to hate and think the worst of.
Folks also tend to forget that the police are dispatched by radios in their cars. They see us doing perfectly legitimate things and think the worst and immeadiatly want to yell foul. A good example of this is when a serious call is dispatched. For this purpose we will use an armed robbery in progress call. The dispatcher will call for any unit in the area to respond to the location. 3 units may answer up and respond with lights and siren. The first car arrives on the scene within 2 minutes and immeadiately determines the call is false. That officer notifies the dispatcher who cancels the other 2 patrol cars.
Pretty cut and dry, right? No way, look what the average citizen observed when they saw one of the other two cars that never arrived on the scene.
This is the citizen complaint- " I saw one of you officers driving on 301 and he turned his lights on because he didn't want to sit in traffic like the rest of us. He went through the red lights and then turned off his siren and pulled into a shopping center. I know he wasn't on a call because I watched him and he just parked and started talking on his cell phone."
We get this type of complaint daily.
Some folks just like to believe everything they see the police doing is corrupt and from an episode of one of the police shows. I know that after watching these shows it may be hard to believe that the real officers who are working in your community may actually care about doing a good job and that they work very hard to provide quality law enforcement services to you and your family, but most really do.
When your patrol area is as big as the District of Columbia and its just you working it, trying to get to the citizens who are asking for your help as quickly as possible is important, at least to us.
Please forgive the spelling, Sometimes I think faster that I can type.
BSgals question is a perfect example of misunderstood perceptions and I am glad she asked it. Officers driving fast, he must be going to the 7-11 for a sale on donuts, right?
First, the officer is driving a vehicle that is registered as an Emergency Vehicle through the Maryland MVA. That grants the vehicle some privileges (for law enforcement purposes) not afforded to other vehicles on the highway. Exceeding the speed limit is one of them. (that privilege however does not allow him to operate the vehicle in a careless manner that causes an accident) Think about it for a second, if the patrol car was not exempted, every time the officer paced you for speeding, he would be commiting the same violation you are.
Now to the meat and potatoes..........
We (the police) know that when folks call the police, even for trivial stuff, its a big deal to them. They expect to hang up the phone, walk to the front door and see me coming up the walkway. In Southern Maryland, a lot of our territory is spread out over large distances. The officer may just be trying to get to calls for service (and he may have several holding at once) even though they do not warrant the emergency lights/siren. He may be responding to a domestic call at a location where he has been before, and knows that things get pretty heated quickly at that address. He may be responding as a back up unit for a call where the primary unit has called on the scene with a problem, and he is coming from 10 miles away. I can sit here and type dozens and dozens of reasons why the officers may be legitimately hurrying up and down the roads, but most folks just think the worst, because thats what they like to think. Cops are unfortunately one of those professions that people like to hate and think the worst of.
Folks also tend to forget that the police are dispatched by radios in their cars. They see us doing perfectly legitimate things and think the worst and immeadiatly want to yell foul. A good example of this is when a serious call is dispatched. For this purpose we will use an armed robbery in progress call. The dispatcher will call for any unit in the area to respond to the location. 3 units may answer up and respond with lights and siren. The first car arrives on the scene within 2 minutes and immeadiately determines the call is false. That officer notifies the dispatcher who cancels the other 2 patrol cars.
Pretty cut and dry, right? No way, look what the average citizen observed when they saw one of the other two cars that never arrived on the scene.
This is the citizen complaint- " I saw one of you officers driving on 301 and he turned his lights on because he didn't want to sit in traffic like the rest of us. He went through the red lights and then turned off his siren and pulled into a shopping center. I know he wasn't on a call because I watched him and he just parked and started talking on his cell phone."
We get this type of complaint daily.
Some folks just like to believe everything they see the police doing is corrupt and from an episode of one of the police shows. I know that after watching these shows it may be hard to believe that the real officers who are working in your community may actually care about doing a good job and that they work very hard to provide quality law enforcement services to you and your family, but most really do.
When your patrol area is as big as the District of Columbia and its just you working it, trying to get to the citizens who are asking for your help as quickly as possible is important, at least to us.
Please forgive the spelling, Sometimes I think faster that I can type.
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Lilypad
Well-Known Member
$.02
As someone who is involved in EMS, anything the police can do to prevent accidents and stop some of the stupidity that is on our roads, highways and Interstate; well I'm all for it.
I’m out there “running” 36-48 hours a week-all all times of day-night, and what I witness is totally mindboggling. Between the parents who let their children ride unrestrained or standing in their cars, to the person that’s just got to get ahead of everyone else-zipping in and out-or the drunk (I don’t care if the person has had 1 beer or a fifth-zero tolerance works for me) just doing his/her thing to the young, inexperienced teenager out late w/a car full of other teenagers-I’ve seen enough.
Oh, and don’t get me started on the red-light runners and the folks that don’t know what following too closely means (especially ambos and school bus’s)!
I would venture to say there is a large population of folks that read and or post on this board, that have been involved in an accident or know someone who has-what is it going to take?
I don’t give a damn if the law gives out 1200 tickets a week, we have red light cameras at every intersection, and citizens are armed w/radar guns-if it saves 1 life, it makes my job easier and I can sleep better.
As someone who is involved in EMS, anything the police can do to prevent accidents and stop some of the stupidity that is on our roads, highways and Interstate; well I'm all for it.
I’m out there “running” 36-48 hours a week-all all times of day-night, and what I witness is totally mindboggling. Between the parents who let their children ride unrestrained or standing in their cars, to the person that’s just got to get ahead of everyone else-zipping in and out-or the drunk (I don’t care if the person has had 1 beer or a fifth-zero tolerance works for me) just doing his/her thing to the young, inexperienced teenager out late w/a car full of other teenagers-I’ve seen enough.
Oh, and don’t get me started on the red-light runners and the folks that don’t know what following too closely means (especially ambos and school bus’s)!
I would venture to say there is a large population of folks that read and or post on this board, that have been involved in an accident or know someone who has-what is it going to take?
I don’t give a damn if the law gives out 1200 tickets a week, we have red light cameras at every intersection, and citizens are armed w/radar guns-if it saves 1 life, it makes my job easier and I can sleep better.
desertrat
0_0
"First, the officer is driving a vehicle that is registered as an Emergency Vehicle through the Maryland MVA. That grants the vehicle some privileges (for law enforcement purposes) not afforded to other vehicles on the highway. Exceeding the speed limit is one of them. (that privilege however does not allow him to operate the vehicle in a careless manner that causes an accident) "
OK, ccrc1, but I still think some of them abuse that priviledge. I also see them tail-gating quite frequently as if they are trying to intimidate people into getting out of their way.
OK, ccrc1, but I still think some of them abuse that priviledge. I also see them tail-gating quite frequently as if they are trying to intimidate people into getting out of their way.