Trump on track to surpass all of Obama's travel costs in 2 years or less

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
I care little about whether taxes are paying for rooms for secret service or not. I'm simply saying neither of us have any evidence one way or the other.

My greater concern is 1) Trump said he wasn't going to do this, and 2) the security nightmare I know this creates for the SS.
I don't really care either, I was simply pointing out that the defense that Sam was using "trump owns the property so it is free to use" just isn't true. Even if trump doesn't charge for the suite he uses, there are plenty of others in his entourage who would be staying at the resort on the governments dime
:bs:

I can accept a president changing their mind on policy - things were worse than they expected, until they got in the WH and saw the reality. I think Trump knew he was going to do 'business' this way before he got in.

He lied to us about it. Kind of brings a new meaning to "drain the swamp" doesn't it?

That is one of the smallest lies he told, but it is one of the more obvious ones.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
William Henry Harrison's wife did not ever live in the White House, Mary Lincoln lived in the Soldier's Home for quite a bit of the presidency, then there's Bess Truman who returned to MO almost immediately after "moving in" to the White House. Her hubby spent 11 vacations in Key West - wonder what that would have cost by today's standards as described in #1 above.

W.H. Harrison died a month into office plus, his wife was sick and they planned to wait a couple of months before she moved to Washington. Both of the Lincolns stayed at the Soldier's Home quite a bit. Plus it was just a brief carriage ride from the White House. Bess Truman did live in the White House and Blair House but she split her time between Independence MO and Washington. President Truman did stay in Key West. 175 days out of his seven year and eleven month term. He stayed at the Naval Station where a level of security was already in place so it wouldn't have cost entirely too much by today's standards.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
When someone asks you to prove something you say that is when you provide proof. You can do your own research to support your claims. Not ask for information to provided to suooort your argument.

Also none of those women had secret service so your point is moot

I provided proof for the thing you asked me to prove. Now I'm asking you to prove your position. You said the costs were "outrageous" and outrageous was "based on the standard of all previous presidents." So, prove your assertion with data, like I did. Additionally, you made the claim that "No president has traveled this much in his first 100 days." - prove it. Show me how much each president (there have been 44 presidents, including this one, so that's a whopper) traveled in their first 100 days.

I said it is demonstrably false to say no first lady has not lived in the White House. You asked me to prove it, and I provided a list of First Ladies that either never lived in the White House or moved out and stayed gone as much as possible. Now's your turn to prove your positions.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
W.H. Harrison died a month into office plus, his wife was sick and they planned to wait a couple of months before she moved to Washington. Both of the Lincolns stayed at the Soldier's Home quite a bit. Plus it was just a brief carriage ride from the White House. Bess Truman did live in the White House and Blair House but she split her time between Independence MO and Washington. President Truman did stay in Key West. 175 days out of his seven year and eleven month term. He stayed at the Naval Station where a level of security was already in place so it wouldn't have cost entirely too much by today's standards.

I appreciate you agreeing with me. Harrison's wife never lived in the WH, Mary Lincoln lived out of the White House, Bess Truman spent the bulk of her time in MO (note, the need for "letters to Bess").

Now, granted the differences in required security cause a far different cost in constant year dollars for all of these, though I doubt the Little White House was that cheap since it was not an easy flight and many government officials couldn't easily and reliably pick up the phone on a secure line and discuss what they needed to discuss, so they needed to fly. HIS cost may not have been prohibitive, but again the security arrangements, if made today, would have been pretty bad not to mention the cost of others getting to him which are not an issue today with VTCs.

But, it's nice to see you agree with the facts.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
I appreciate you agreeing with me. Harrison's wife never lived in the WH, Mary Lincoln lived out of the White House, Bess Truman spent the bulk of her time in MO (note, the need for "letters to Bess").

Now, granted the differences in required security cause a far different cost in constant year dollars for all of these, though I doubt the Little White House was that cheap since it was not an easy flight and many government officials couldn't easily and reliably pick up the phone on a secure line and discuss what they needed to discuss, so they needed to fly. HIS cost may not have been prohibitive, but again the security arrangements, if made today, would have been pretty bad not to mention the cost of others getting to him which are not an issue today with VTCs.

But, it's nice to see you agree with the facts.

Actually, I didn't agree with your assertion that "Mary Lincoln lived out of the White House". In fact, as I mentioned, the Lincolns spent time at the Solder's Home. Usually in the summers. The majority of the time, they resided in the White House.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Actually, I didn't agree with your assertion that "Mary Lincoln lived out of the White House". In fact, as I mentioned, the Lincolns spent time at the Solder's Home. Usually in the summers. The majority of the time, they resided in the White House.
History disagrees. They spent long, long times at the Soldier's Home. However, even without that one, there are two others that prove the claim (not yours, mind you) that no other first lady has ever not lived in the white house.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
W.H. Harrison died a month into office plus, his wife was sick and they planned to wait a couple of months before she moved to Washington. Both of the Lincolns stayed at the Soldier's Home quite a bit. Plus it was just a brief carriage ride from the White House. Bess Truman did live in the White House and Blair House but she split her time between Independence MO and Washington. President Truman did stay in Key West. 175 days out of his seven year and eleven month term. He stayed at the Naval Station where a level of security was already in place so it wouldn't have cost entirely too much by today's standards.

When Truman was President he used to walk the streets of Washington on his own with no security.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
I appreciate you agreeing with me. Harrison's wife never lived in the WH, Mary Lincoln lived out of the White House, Bess Truman spent the bulk of her time in MO (note, the need for "letters to Bess").

Now, granted the differences in required security cause a far different cost in constant year dollars for all of these, though I doubt the Little White House was that cheap since it was not an easy flight and many government officials couldn't easily and reliably pick up the phone on a secure line and discuss what they needed to discuss, so they needed to fly. HIS cost may not have been prohibitive, but again the security arrangements, if made today, would have been pretty bad not to mention the cost of others getting to him which are not an issue today with VTCs.

But, it's nice to see you agree with the facts.

I doubt Bess had SS protection in Mo.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
History disagrees. They spent long, long times at the Soldier's Home. However, even without that one, there are two others that prove the claim (not yours, mind you) that no other first lady has ever not lived in the white house.

History does not disagree. At least your version might disagree but actual history supports what I stated.

During the Civil War, the Lincolns chose to move their family from the White House to a cottage on a hilltop overlooking the city. They made this move three summers in a row, in the midst of a war that threatened the country they held so dear.

http://www.lincolncottage.org/home-for-brave-ideas/

One-forth of the Lincoln's time was spent at the Soldier's Home. As I stated before, the majority of their time was spent living in the White House.

Lincoln occupied the Soldiers' Home, in what is now called Lincoln Cottage, during the most turbulent time in our nation's history, the Civil War. Not only was it a break from the hot, humid city, but also from the intense political pressures of being president during that time. In fact, Lincoln spent one-fourth of his presidency at the Soldiers' Home, and it is believed that Lincoln wrote the last draft of the Emancipation Proclamation there. Mary Todd Lincoln fondly recalled the campus; in 1865, she wrote, "How dearly I loved the Soldiers' Home." The Lincoln Cottage was constructed in 1842-43 as the home of George W. Riggs, who went on to establish the famous Riggs National Bank in Washington, D.C. In 1851, the government purchased the Riggs home and farmland surrounding it to form the core of what is the Washington campus today.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+...istory--and+future--of+caring+...-a0158628350


As for Bess Truman, she did live in the White House and Blair House in DC. Not fulltime but she did live there and did spend extended amounts of time in MO as well.

That leaves Mrs. Harrison. As I stated before. She was ill when her husband was inaugurated in March 1841. They planned for her to move to the White House in May 1841 when she was well enough to travel but he died 31 days into his term so the move didn't happen.

So, bottom line, there has been no First Lady who chose not to ever live in the White House.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
I don't really care either, I was simply pointing out that the defense that Sam was using "trump owns the property so it is free to use" just isn't true.

Scouring everything I've ever written on that - nope, never said that. I'm fully aware that costs also involve the local law enforcement, security and the like.
I am sure because of Secret Service and the like, there's probably a base amount of cost no matter what.

It's probably less true of Mar-A-Lago than of Bush's ranch, because the ranch was actually his *HOME*, and thus required none of the costs involved with securing a resort that might have other guests.

I just don't understand why THREE trips to Mar-A-Lago might incur a bill of nearly 10 million, but securing beachfront property in Hawaii and a hotel would be so much less.
Why these comparisons done on cost show a trip to Martha's Vineyard as being less than half a million.

I have to think it's because they are comparing apples and oranges - one is using travel costs, another is using total costs - including costs that are misleading, because the President ALWAYS has
security protecting him.

I'm still seeing my bull#### detector blasting - something doesn't smell right about it.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
When Truman was President he used to walk the streets of Washington on his own with no security.

Actually, Truman did have S.S. agents with him during his walks...

Truman’s morning walks were particularly troublesome to his Secret Service detail. (The one pictured above is from 1950.) Four agents were assigned to accompany him, one at the front, one on each side, and one at the back. The poor agent at the front – the point man – simply had to guess which way Truman was headed. Often he guessed wrong. “We lost a few of them that way,” remembered Floyd Boring.

The presidential walks inevitably created potentially dangerous situations, particularly considering Washington’s notoriously bad drivers. To keep Truman from getting run over while crossing the street, the Secret Service came up with an ingenious solution. The traffic lights around the White House were rigged so they could be turned red in all directions whenever the ambulating president approached, allowing him to complete his two-mile walk swiftly and safely. It didn’t take long for Truman to notice his peculiar effect on traffic lights, and he put an end to the practice. “I’ll wait for the light like any other pedestrian,” he insisted.

Truman deeply admired his Secret Service agents, and the feeling was mutual. He enjoyed chatting with them on his morning walks. “He would treat us almost like sons,” remembered Rex Scouten, an agent who served on Truman’s detail. “He talked nearly the whole time.” “He never came on as being superior,” recalled Floyd Boring, another Truman agent. “He could talk to anyone! … He never got swellheaded – never got, you know, swagly.” When Boring’s wife had a baby, Truman went to the hospital to visit her and the newborn. One Christmas when he was back home in Independence, Truman was aghast to learn that several agents assigned to him were standing outside in the snow. Truman invited them to the back porch to dry off. (Several years later, when agents assigned to President Eisenhower asked him if they could stand on the back porch of his cabin during a downpour, Ike answered, “Nothin’ doing.”)

http://www.trumanroadtrip.com/articles/article/6829750/120407.htm
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
I doubt Bess had SS protection in Mo.

Bess Truman did have SS protection while in Mo. Although it was minimal, it was there and continued beyond the Truman's White House years until she passed away in 1982.
 
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PsyOps

Pixelated
why does it have to be a lie .... maybe he changed his mind, living in the White House sucks

If the White House sucks, he shouldn't have taken the job. I am fed up with nothing changing in Washington. I am fed up with our elected people "changing their minds". I'm fed up with these people making all sorts of promises just to get elected; playing us for suckers. How long do we - the people - have to tolerate more debt, ever-expanding government, more intrusive government...?

And now our president has gotten into another foreign mess - Syria. Parking our ships off the coast of North Korea. Pissing off Russia. Are you ready for more Americans to die; and for what?

Just once, I'd like to see a politician stick with what they promised.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
Good read - and an interesting contrast with how Hillary treated her S.S. details.

History has been good to Truman, but he was detested during his tenure.

Yes. He was very unpopular by the time he left office. And, you're right, history has treated him very well. You mentioned Hillary's treatment of the S.S. This piece had a little jab at Ike as well.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
If the White House sucks, he shouldn't have taken the job.

How would you know until you get their .....

I am fed up with nothing changing in Washington. I am fed up with our elected people "changing their minds". I'm fed up with these people making all sorts of promises just to get elected; playing us for suckers. How long do we - the people - have to tolerate more debt, ever-expanding government, more intrusive government...?


Sure but what do you want to do about it ....
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Yes. He was very unpopular by the time he left office. And, you're right, history has treated him very well. You mentioned Hillary's treatment of the S.S. This piece had a little jab at Ike as well.

Although I was born under Ike - I was too young. My Dad wasn't a fan, but he didn't like him much. He frequently said that Ike proved we didn't need to have a President at all.

But Hillary's stories are legendary. I used to play ball with a WH aide during the Clinton years, and he often had some fun stories - but mostly, that the Clintons fought all the damned time.
More than once, he'd see the limo outside and SS standing outside with the same look - yep, they're fighting, and it's their job to just stand there while it goes on in the car.
Then, she'd get out and snarl at them. Doesn't make you want to take a bullet for them.
 
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