UFOs

[SamSpade]

I believe the speed of light is just another barrier to be broken. Used to be going faster than 30mph would cause your blood to boil, and that breaking the sound barrier was impossible. And we KNEW those facts to be true.

There’s at least a lot of physics substantiating the speed of light. I don’t know a shred of science that says your blood will boil at 30 mph - since CHARIOTS went that fast, and lots of animals and birds do it all the time.

What people THINK and science aren’t the same.

The sound barrier - that was a limit of engineering - not science.

I still subscribe to Occam’s Razor - the simplest solution is usually the right one. It’s simpler to believe that after decades of UFO “sightings” and nothing provable, I place it with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster.

 

[Sneakers]

There’s at least a lot of physics substantiating the speed of light. I don’t know a shred of science that says your blood will boil at 30 mph - since CHARIOTS went that fast, and lots of animals and birds do it all the time.

What people THINK and science aren’t the same.

The sound barrier - that was a limit of engineering - not science.

I still subscribe to Occam’s Razor - the simplest solution is usually the right one. It’s simpler to believe that after decades of UFO “sightings” and nothing provable, I place it with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster.

I'm not disputing your belief of UFOs, only that the speed of light is not finite. And you're right, the speed of sound was an engineering issue, but until they found a way around the engineering, the speed of sound was thought to be impossible. I believe the speed of light to be the same. Impossible now, until a way to break it is found. Then it becomes possible.

Edit: Should have said the ability to surpass the speed of light is not fixed. Speed of light is a finite constant.

 

[SamSpade]

Edit: Should have said the ability to surpass the speed of light is not fixed.

Unless aliens have figured out a way to move from one place to another without having to surpass the speed of light

I don't see how they get here. It's not just that gosh we haven't figured out how to break it. When an OBJECT approaches the speed of light, the observed mass becomes infinite as does the energy required to move at the speed of light. You can approach it - but you run out of energy. And you can't pass it. You might as well say "if we can ever count past infinity". You remember those graphs you drew in algebra, where the value of y goes infinite as the x value approaches a point? What people are saying "but yeah, if we ever got PAST that point".

And it is MUCH EASIER for me to believe a lot of people are wrong than that the laws of physics are blatantly broken. Because all we have is what people claim to have seen. We don't have any evidence beyond that. Not oh but the government HAS evidence and won't tell you. No. There are governments around the world, and despite all their animus towards one another - they ALL agree not to divulge it?

There's another explanation. Because it is MUCH simpler explanation. There are no ghosts, no Loch Ness, no Yeti, no Bigfoot, no Jersey Devils, no chupacabra, none of that stuff. I don't care if it is *possible*. The possibility is very thin.

And I bring up God and an afterlife as an example, because people believe in it and are openly ridiculed by others - who may or may not believe in aliens without having seen any proof of either.

The premise of "Ad Astra" is just that. We're alone. Maybe - we're the first. If that's the case, it's up to us to ensure that life is not extinguished from the universe. Because it MAY be that life is so unique that perhaps it's barely likely for it to happen even ONCE in the lifetime of a universe.

 

[GURPS]

They don’t believe in God or an afterlife - but little green men they’ve never seen. Sure.

Or want to ' worship ' Mother Earth ... or trees or animals or ANYTHING But GOD

 

[vraiblonde]

^^Opinion.^^

I will give you credit for capitalizing His name this time.

I always capitalize God the entity - I don't cap when using god as a colloquialism, as in "oh for god's sake".

 

[vraiblonde]

I still subscribe to Occam’s Razor - the simplest solution is usually the right one.

And I'm the exact opposite - I think there's usually more to things than what's on the surface and "experts" are largely full of sh*t. Typically I'm right, so I'ma stick with that.

Science is constantly evolving and new discoveries are being made every day. Our ancient ancestors *knew* the world was flat, and they could *prove* it. Doctors *knew* that bloodletting was the way to cure pretty much any ailment, and you got sick because you offended one of the gods.

Just two short years ago biologists and epidemiologists could *prove* that covid kills everyone it infects and *knew* that wearing a flimsy mask would prevent it.

 

[jrt_ms1995]

Intelligent life on other planets is more logically plausible than intelligent life on Earth.

Made more better.

 

[Hijinx]

I will believe in space aliens when I see them land and seek out the leader of the free world.
Whoever is hiding behind the Joe Biden curtain and running things.

 

[vraiblonde]

I will believe in space aliens when I see them land and seek out the leader of the free world.

And yet you believe in God...

 

[SamSpade]

Our ancient ancestors *knew* the world was flat, and they could *prove* it.

This is actually NOT true. Anyone watching a ship's sails dip over the horizon *knew* that wasn't the case.

Aristotle estimated the diameter to be 400,000 stadia (about 45,500 miles) but Eratosthenes in 276 BC actually used a bit better math (and experimentation using shadows at noon, some trigonometry and so on) to compute it at 252,000 stadia (or about 24,662 miles, which is close to 24,901, the actual number).

Columbus - and the Renaissance era Europeans - KNEW the Earth was round, but they had no idea there was a whole CONTINENT between them, and Asia - just - a REALLY HUGE OCEAN. If there was no New World - using the estimates they had - it would be a trip of about 18,000 miles. WAY too far to sail THAT way. Columbus thought Eratosthenes was wrong - he believed another guy (Marinus of Tyre, whose math was TERRIBLE and did NO experiments) whose estimates were 1/4 of the correct number. AND - he doubted HIM.

GENERALLY - Europeans, Arabs and others sailing back then believed the Euro-Asian-African landmass was half the Earth - and water was the rest.

It IS true that - further back in history - they believed the Earth stood on the shoulders of elephants standing on a gigantic turtle. But this is the difference between SCIENCE - and superstition.

I do follow Occam's Razor for most things - because it is true most of the time that really, really complex answers are created to support a predetermined belief rather than science. The best historical example I can think of is the concoction of "epicyles" when observing the apparent retrograde motion of the planets. Since people "KNEW" the Earth was the center of the universe, the only explanation for their apparent backward motion was they followed these ridiculous Spirograph like mini circles within their orbits. Over time, they added MORE and MORE nested epicycles to explain it further. Once they understood the pre-supposition of the Earth was wrong - it was clear that the simplest answer was, they revolve about the Sun at different speeds in a simple ellipse.

Like the abandonment of "the ether" in space, it's what happens when you follow the science - instead of starting with assumptions and looking to confirm them.
__________________________________________________________

Regarding "aliens" - it might be slightly more believable if it weren't for the belief that they were all humanoid - two eyes, NOSE with two slits for nostrils, two arms and legs and walk upright - like people. There's no logic that all advanced life forms would somehow - look a lot like US.

 

[SamSpade]

And yet you believe in God...

I do bring God into it, because - mostly - no one has ever seen God and yet people believe in him.

After a crisis of conscience after leaving that church - which lasted about a dozen years - I reached a conclusion one of my Christian friends reached. That "no God" and "God" are equally plausible. He was a determined atheist and follower of Bertrand Russell - and thought he could convince people there was no God. When he got totally down to it - the basis for both really came down to choice. He didn't believe just on Pascal's Wager. But taken all in all, the God choice had slightly more plausibility.

I came to it from another angle, having had friends who believed strongly in chemical evolution - arising from simple experiments where you can create basic amino acids by running a current through a primordial "soup" - and that over time, they formed basic life over billions of years by uncountably large number of random interactions. This is roughly akin to a million monkeys on a million typewriters, randomly clacking away until one of them produces MacBeth (which I am sure you've heard before). Here's why it's absurd - mathematically, THAT would take longer than the lifetime of the universe, but it just takes ONE PERSON at a typewriter to do it once.

So why can't WE CREATE life, by doing the same thing - on purpose? IF - we can ever create simple life - from non-life - by applying our brilliance and not relying on randomness, but doing it DELIBERATELY - well maybe "no God" gets another shot with me.

Heck, even Hawking suggested we ALREADY live in a simulated reality.

 

[WingsOfGold]

I always capitalize God the entity - I don't cap when using god as a colloquialism, as in "oh for god's sake".

OR A Roman god.

 

[SamSpade]

OR A Roman god.

 

[Hijinx]

And yet you believe in God...

Yes.

 

[vraiblonde]

Regarding "aliens" - it might be slightly more believable if it weren't for the belief that they were all humanoid - two eyes, NOSE with two slits for nostrils, two arms and legs and walk upright - like people. There's no logic that all advanced life forms would somehow - look a lot like US.

I think that's Hollywood talking. They have to make the aliens relatable. Having Elliot get emotionally attached to a 1cm blob just doesn't make a good visual, and humans have a hard time conceiving of anything that isn't them or what they are familiar with.

Advanced life forms could take literally any shape or no shape at all. They could be what we would call spirits. Who knows. The guy who wrote "The Martian" also wrote a book called "Project Hail Mary" that was a great read, and the alien in the story is highly intelligent and advanced but looks like a stone spider.

I have a whole diatribe about humans and their lack of imagination or humility, but I'll spare you....

 

[vraiblonde]

So why can't WE CREATE life, by doing the same thing - on purpose? IF - we can ever create simple life - from non-life - by applying our brilliance and not relying on randomness, but doing it DELIBERATELY - well maybe "no God" gets another shot with me.

Depends on your definition of "life". AI robots - could they be considered "life"? You can make the argument about organic material, but isn't all material organic at its base? Or you can bring up emotion and creativity, but I know a number of people who have no emotion or creativity - someone's AI girlfriend can at least fake it realistically.

So I will submit that humans are perhaps already creating life, and complex life at that.

As far as God goes, it's always seemed to me that that's how people have always explained what they didn't know - "it's God." Or gods or some other deity. And I'm okay with that. I got no beef with God or anyone who believes in Him (see me capitalizing "Him", @PrchJrkr ? ) I just don't happen to share that belief.

 

[Monello]

Maybe they don't crash? Maybe the only species capable of advancing enough to visit other solar systems were only able to do so in a pacifistic society that didn't stunt it's own growth or extinct itself. They show up, expect us to be friendly because they have no frame of reference for intelligent violent species or they believe we are too barbaric to do anything to them, and then we hit them with a sidewinder and *poof* downed spacecraft.

Maybe violence and conflict are concepts that are foreign to the aliens. They lack tribes and all work together for the benefit of their society. Sort of like the Japanese here on earth.

 

[Hijinx]

Jesus Christ was no figment of someone imagination, he was real he was historical whether you believe he was the son of God is up to you but he did exist, and He spoke of the Father. God , The Lord's prayer came from Jesus.
He didn't come down in a space ship.

I don't care what anyone believes, most of our laws today are built on the Bible whether anyone wants to believe it or not.

 

[Grumpy]

interesting thread, havta delve into this further when I am not on my phone. I totally believe lightspeed is not the limit and it’s inconceivable that we are the intelligent beings in this universe.

 

[spr1975wshs]

it’s inconceivable that we are the intelligent beings in this universe.

All those ads obsessed with bodily functions and dysfunctions are proof of that.