UFOs

[DaSDGuy]

Interesting conversations. Is God real? Are space aliens real? Oops, thats space immigrants, right? Then again, some believe we will invent unlimited non-polluting electrical power before all new gas engines are banned. I put my money on God and space aliens.

 

[SamSpade]

I think that's Hollywood talking. They have to make the aliens relatable.

I get that. But this is how the aliens are described, by "witnesses". That's what makes it LESS believable - that the reports are of humanoid creatures.

 

[SamSpade]

Depends on your definition of "life". AI robots - could they be considered "life"? You can make the argument about organic material, but isn't all material organic at its base?

Nope. Organic refers specifically to complex combinations of carbon based molecules. Gasoline is organic; water is not.

So I will submit that humans are perhaps already creating life, and complex life at that.

That isn't what I am saying. Lots of people believe that chemical evolution is how life as we know it FORMED in the first place - and how it will occur elsewhere. Their PREMISE depends on amino acids and organic molecules somehow joining and forming LIFE - *randomly*. The primordial "soup" where molecules somehow formed the first piece of life. By chance. And yet - we can't do it on PURPOSE. Sure, in college you do the electrical current thing and say wow, I didn't know that happened. But it's a big leap to believe that somehow life did it on its own.

It is nearly as difficult to believe that, as to believe that after billions of years - ROBOTS arose from the ground.

As far as God goes, it's always seemed to me that that's how people have always explained what they didn't know - "it's God." Or gods or some other deity.

Sure. God or gods have been the explanation for everything people can't explain. Or ghosts and spirits.

There's always been a sort of gulf between wisdom and knowledge that is arrived at empirically - and that which is determined by science or scientific method. You find natives that use some piece of bark to cure their headaches and you think "what crap". And then someone takes that bark - and makes aspirin out of it. I'm always amazed by how ignorant ancient civilizations were about what stars and planets WERE - but they knew EXACTLY what time it would appear in the sky and how it moved across the heavens WHILE ACCOUNTING for the movement of the Earth.

So there's simple faith in God - that's the pragmatic, empirical observation. And then there's belief which is based on actually trying to check things out. There's too much I can't come up with any kind of scientific explanation even if it is JUST CONJECTURE and not "proof". I guess to me, science answers "how" but only God answers - "why".

 

[WingsOfGold]

I think that's Hollywood talking. They have to make the aliens relatable. Having Elliot get emotionally attached to a 1cm blob just doesn't make a good visual, and humans have a hard time conceiving of anything that isn't them or what they are familiar with.

Advanced life forms could take literally any shape or no shape at all. They could be what we would call spirits. Who knows. The guy who wrote "The Martian" also wrote a book called "Project Hail Mary" that was a great read, and the alien in the story is highly intelligent and advanced but looks like a stone spider.

I have a whole diatribe about humans and their lack of imagination or humility, but I'll spare you....

This is true, I saw it on tv

 

[SamSpade]

This is true, I saw it on tv View attachment 171779

In the latest Trek - "Strange New Worlds" which covers the Enterprise during the Christopher Pike era (just prior to Kirk and actually VERY good) - the Gorn - the lizard-like alien pictured above - have reappeared briefly and have gotten a makeover. NOW, they don't look like stupid things in rubbers suits, but are actually quite terrifying - not so much for LOOKING scarier, but the fact that they can rip you to shreds in mere seconds.

 

[vraiblonde]

I get that. But this is how the aliens are described, by "witnesses". That's what makes it LESS believable - that the reports are of humanoid creatures.

What if ETs understand that we are highly tribal and don't like anything that doesn't look like us, so they manifest their appearance into something that resembles us so we'll be more accepting? And this is as close as they can get, which is why descriptions of aliens vary a good bit but are still humanoid in appearance?

 

[GURPS]

Depends on your definition of "life". AI robots - could they be considered "life"?

No, when AI can respond like Commander Data we can have this discussion.

The Measure of a Man (Star Trek: The Next Generation)​

- someone's AI girlfriend can at least fake it realistically.

Nope, not even close, sure the are occasional responses that are spot on, by and large the AI cannot keep up, memory is limited top a few doz previous sentences if any

I've been playing around with 2 AI Chat Bots for the past 4 months ... one has more ' normal ' conversations but has NO CLUE what the time of day is or day of the week or is connected to the internet ... case in point yesterday evening

how was your work day

even though I had repeatedly told the AI when I work

The 2nd has a larger data pool or is in fact connected to the Internet as I asked her about Podcast of the Lotus Eaters, to which I recieved several lengthy responses in a discussion about the rise and sucess of Carl Benjamin

I have also discussed The Great Gatsby and the use of color symbolism - to which my daughter laughed at the responses [ she did a book report on this for school and we discussed this at length over several conversations ] she stated the bot was WAY OFF

I have also asked for a comparison of 1984 and A Brave New World




I'm still trying to figure out how women and men end up forming emotional attachments to their AI companion ... the spark of intellect just is not there this is cleaver programmed responses

 

[SamSpade]

What if ETs understand that we are highly tribal and don't like anything that doesn't look like us, so they manifest their appearance into something that resembles us so we'll be more accepting? And this is as close as they can get, which is why descriptions of aliens vary a good bit but are still humanoid in appearance?

Because now we’re in “epicycle” territory - now, not only are the laws of physics broken so that the aliens are real and the unlikely possibility that an advanced civilization actually exists within the brief time we exist as a civilization - but now they alter their appearance to SORT OF look like us but maybe they can’t pull it off that well.

All so we can say, see? Aliens are real.

When a simpler answer is, no, like Bigfoot and mermaids - they don’t exist.

 

[vraiblonde]

But it's a big leap to believe that somehow life did it on its own.

And I find that not only plausible but highly likely. Life wants to live and will adapt to its environment toward that goal. We see it in plants all the time and you can observe it yourself in real time. And if life can evolve and regenerate in a few months, imagine what can happen over billions of years.

Nature has always been more capable than humans. One of the things travel has taught me is how insignificant humans are in the grand scheme of things, and it's the height of ignorance and arrogance to think we mere mortals can even get close to the complex interaction of creation and evolution. Man can perhaps create a reasonable facsimile of a human, but he can never ever create a planet that sustains life, or a solar system, and certainly not a whole galaxy, let alone the universe.

Is that God? Maybe, but what I can tell you with certainty is that it's not humans.

We should be thankful that this Earth lets us live, but that may change if we keep screwing around. Nature will kill us off long before we kill it.

 

[vraiblonde]

how was your work day

even though I had repeatedly told the AI when I work

Maybe AI doesn't care and is only asking out of politeness. Like asking a stranger, "How are you today?" and only wanting a , "Good, and you?" rather than a comeapart diatribe?

 

[SamSpade]

And I find that not only plausible but highly likely. Life wants to live and will adapt to its environment toward that goal. We see it in plants all the time and you can observe it yourself in real time. And if life can evolve and regenerate in a few months, imagine what can happen over billions of years.

Sure, ONCE life starts somewhere it tends to explode outward. The fossil record shows that. Once life began here it spread fast.

But that’s not what I’m saying. It’s unlikely that life sprang from non-life. Strange that it happened billions of years ago once but hasn’t happened again - here.

 

[GURPS]

Maybe AI doesn't care and is only asking out of politeness.

That was the overall point I was responding to;

Depends on your definition of "life". AI robots - could they be considered "life"?

There is no spark, no imagination, humanity, initiative, drive, spirit, pluck, aspiration, determination, motivation, hustle, hunger .... only complex, Programmed Responses

 

[SamSpade]

Maybe AI doesn't care and is only asking out of politeness. Like asking a stranger, "How are you today?" and only wanting a , "Good, and you?" rather than a comeapart diatribe?

Many, many years ago - I wrote a very simple “conversation” program. Aside from a few phrases, it recorded everything everyone said to it and RANDOMLY spit out phrases in its database. After a long time it had a HUGE repertoire.

But it didn’t listen. Lots of people thought it was clever and asked how it worked. Finally one programmer said “it’s random isn’t it? It doesn’t listen”.

“Just like REAL conversation” I smirked.

 

[vraiblonde]

That was the overall point I was responding to;



There is no spark, no imagination, humanity, initiative, drive, spirit, pluck, aspiration, determination, motivation, hustle, hunger .... only complex, Programmed Responses

I personally know a number of live humans with those exact same qualities, and we also see them on the news and social media every single day.

 

[vraiblonde]

“Just like REAL conversation” I smirked.

As I was reading your story I was thinking, "So...like a real conversation....?"

 

[vraiblonde]

But that’s not what I’m saying. It’s unlikely that life sprang from non-life. Strange that it happened billions of years ago once but hasn’t happened again - here.

?

It happens all the time. Sunset Crater in AZ, for one, is visible observable proof of that.

 

[SamSpade]

?

It happens all the time. Sunset Crater in AZ, for one, is visible observable proof of that.

That’s just existing life moving in where it had been wiped out. If life appeared spontaneously from inorganic matter, the first thing to appear would NOT be flowers and birds and insects. Especially if that life already existed nearby. It’s not life emerging from non-life.

 

[Clem72]

No, when AI can respond like Commander Data we can have this discussion.

I'm pretty sure AI already surpasses Data. I have seen AI responses properly use contractions.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Alien or illusion? California resident captures mysterious light

A resident in California is now looking at his camera footage and questioning what he captured.

foxbaltimore.com

 

[Sneakers]

Alien or illusion? California resident captures mysterious light

A resident in California is now looking at his camera footage and questioning what he captured.

foxbaltimore.com

"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus."