Was Christ Who He Said He Was?

[Xaquin44]

Ok thank you. I have a question for you then. Would you mind me sending you more information? Would you allow me at least some time to try to make my point for religion? When I say send I mean in a private message. I am not pushy and believe that being pushy is one of the reasons people are turned away as well as for all the hypocrites.

I don't mind =)

 

[SShewbert]

Oh I agree. I have no proof he isn't up there. 'Not having bones' isn't proof though.

I can see your point after this many years there's nothing stating that his bones should be there. I am saying there are eye witnesses though that say he walked this earth after he was risen and that they did not find any body in his grave.

I'm a he, mAlice is a she. I wasn't saying 'because it was written by man it isn't true' I was saying that 'because it was written by man it isn't proof'.

Ok I did not want to offend anyone. I can understand that a book isnt proof. All of religion rests on faith I believe. You either have faith or not. What if I had proof. Would you then believe or would you still have a answer as to why it's not true.

 

[Xaquin44]

I can see your point after this many years there's nothing stating that his bones should be there. I am saying there are eye witnesses though that say he walked this earth after he was risen and that they did not find any body in his grave.

eeehhhh 2,000 year old 'eye witnesses' are not exactly proof. I'd wager we could find more people who have seen the Loch Ness Monster and/or Bigfoot then Jesus

Ok I did not want to offend anyone. I can understand that a book isnt proof. All of religion rests on faith I believe. You either have faith or not. What if I had proof. Would you then believe or would you still have a answer as to why it's not true.

Depends if it was actual proof hehe

I can't imagine what that would be, but you never know.

 

[SShewbert]

eeehhhh 2,000 year old 'eye witnesses' are not exactly proof. I'd wager we could find more people who have seen the Loch Ness Monster and/or Bigfoot then Jesus



Depends if it was actual proof hehe

I can't imagine what that would be, but you never know.

If you are wanting physical proof I can honestly say that I could probably not produce that myself. Like you said after 2,000 or so years that would be little hard. My point was though that if you could believe after seeing proof then you have the potential to believe based on just faith. May I ask what you do believe? God? I am thinking not , but evolution, nothing just when we die we die? I am just curious. I know curiousity killed the cat.

 

[Xaquin44]

If you are wanting physical proof I can honestly say that I could probably not produce that myself. Like you said after 2,000 or so years that would be little hard. My point was though that if you could believe after seeing proof then you have the potential to believe based on just faith. May I ask what you do believe? God? I am thinking not , but evolution, nothing just when we die we die? I am just curious. I know curiousity killed the cat.

I think physical is about the only proof that would sway me hehe

I'm not 100% on what I believe. I tried the whole bible/church thing, but it never meshed (god gives man free will, but do this or else burn in hell forever, by the way god loves you never made sense to me).

I don't know if I believe in the big bang theory as it really doesn't make sense to me either.

For now I pretty much think that if (big if) god (exists?) did anything, he planted a seed and buggered off. In which case, I see no need to worship or thank him aside for the initial act. If he has some kind of plan, I can safely say his plan sucks as there are a whole lot of things in this world that are completely unnecessary to anything (i.e. stillborn babies, kids stepping on old land mines, etc.) that could and by all rights would be prevented by any kind of benevolent god.

edit: this is the very short version lol

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

God's Word trumps all man's verdicts or conclusions......jeeeez..

That sounds real cute but we have people that claim to speak for God and thus the "word" is only their words.

It is naive people that claim God is burning people in a Hell fire for all eternity and mis-claiming that as the "word of God" and it is just made made conclusion and man made verdicts and man made nonsense that have been passed down from ancient Greek mythology.

Thus that statement quoted above is just a controlling power play that Orthodoxy has perfected over the years.

Any person that does not draw their own personal conclusions and their own verdicts are trumped by anybody that challenges them.

 

[Starman3000m]

If you say 'yes' or 'no' I'm fine either way.

If jesus is the same as god, then I'll say god didn't send his son down, but rather just himself.

God is Spirit (John 4:24) and no person would be able to see Him nor stand and face The Pure Light of His Righteous Glory.

The only way that God could relate to the emotions, trials, tribulations, sorrows, feel the persecutions of His enemy, and be seen and walk among mankind was to physically appear in bodily form.

The quality attributes of God is that He is:

Omniscient - All Knowing
Omnipotent - All Powerful
Omnipresent - Able to be present everywhere at the same time

Yeshua is the physical extension of God into the human race (that He created) being born without an earthly human father and only by the power of God's Divine Intervention.

Yeshua had a living breathing soul, physical body and was indwelt by The fullness of the Spirit of God, whereas mankind does not have that complete spiritual fullness nor ability to live a perfect, sinless life. That is how Yeshua is The Son and God and that is why His life, suffering, death, Atoning Blood, resurrection and ascension into heaven permits the ability for Yeshua to be the Mediator between God and mankind.

Yeshua proclaimed that His Doctrine was not His but that of His Father who was greater and that He came into the world not to judge the world but that the world through Him could be saved. The world witnessed God in action through the perfect, sinless and forgiving life and ministry of Yeshua and His Miracles . The world witnessed Yeshua, The Son, who offered Himself as the sacrifice whose shed Blood Atones for the sins of mankind and that is offered free to all who believe upon God's Plan of Salvation through Yeshua.

"I Am The Way, The Truth and The Life; No Man Can Come Unto The Father Except Through Me." (John 14:6)

 

[Marie]

Can you really not speak for yourself? You make no sense and simply quoting every person that has participated in this thread, out of sequence, does not help.

Free will, god gave it to us. Use it.

I am not getting you! You said you couldnt understand the flow of the thread, so I laid it out for you so you wouldnt have to take the time to go back and read it and I gave it to you in perfect sequence.

Now your asking me if I cant speak for myself???
Help me out whats the question? I am bending over backwards to accomadate you but I am not following you!

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

I stlll cant figure out from rereading why you think I cant speak for myself, I do it quite a lot.

As to the free will are you refering to The doctrine of free will?

We are not asking you to explain any doctrine of free will, like we all know what free will is.

We are asking you to express your own free will, and give your own opinions, your own feelings, and do not quote others as if they speak for you.

That is the quest here.

 

[godsbutterfly]

That sounds real cute but we have people that claim to speak for God and thus the "word" is only their words.

It is naive people that claim God is burning people in a Hell fire for all eternity and mis-claiming that as the "word of God" and it is just made made conclusion and man made verdicts and man made nonsense that have been passed down from ancient Greek mythology.

Thus that statement quoted above is just a controlling power play that Orthodoxy has perfected over the years.

Any person that does not draw their own personal conclusions and their own verdicts are trumped by anybody that challenges them.

I'm not going to argue with you because I have been round and round with you on this but you just threw something else out there that I want to address quickly: The Bible is not Greek Mythology. I took a course on Greek Mythology (a short course but a course none the less) and the gods they worshipped were not strictly Greek. Greek was not the only language of that day. Aramaic was prevalent for example. Have you even bothered to look at the area they were in? It's not hard to look thru the Bible and find the places in the Bible still around today. Egypt? Israel? Mount Ararat? - Just to name a few. Perhaps you should study it a little more closely.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

I'm not going to argue with you because I have been round and round with you on this but you just threw something else out there that I want to address quickly: The Bible is not Greek Mythology. I took a course on Greek Mythology (a short course but a course none the less) and the gods they worshipped were not strictly Greek. Greek was not the only language of that day. Aramaic was prevalent for example. Have you even bothered to look at the area they were in? It's not hard to look thru the Bible and find the places in the Bible still around today. Egypt? Israel? Mount Ararat? - Just to name a few. Perhaps you should study it a little more closely.

I was refering to the Christian New Testiment that was written in Greek and the Greek word mis-used as a translation to "Hell" by the Christian Orthodox is from the Greek word "Hades" which is where the Greek mythology of burning people in torment came from link it HERE.

The Christians have mistakenly taken the Greek mythological "Hades" and call it "Hell" and it is not true.

 

[Marie]

I was refering to the Christian New Testiment that was written in Greek and the Greek word mis-used as a translation to "Hell" by the Christian Orthodox is from the Greek word "Hades" which is where the Greek mythology of burning people in torment came from link it HERE.

The Christians have mistakenly taken the Greek mythological "Hades" and call it "Hell" and it is not true.

Yo James it doesnt mater whether you use Hades, Tartarus or Gehenna they all get you to the same place.

gehenna
a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

tartaroō
tar-tar-o'-o
From ΤάρταροςTartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.

hadēs
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.

So whats your point Hebrew and Aramaic Greek the name changes but the discription dosent, by the way I was looking at a translation by an Assyrian besides just using the dictionary.

But the good news is you won, I wasted an hour chasing down your nonsense.

 

[Gwydion]

I am not getting you! You said you couldnt understand the flow of the thread, so I laid it out for you so you wouldnt have to take the time to go back and read it and I gave it to you in perfect sequence.

Now your asking me if I cant speak for myself???
Help me out whats the question? I am bending over backwards to accomadate you but I am not following you!

No, I said I don't understand anything YOU write. You don't have any of your own thoughts on the subject. You are just stating statements. I then ask questions about what you write and you post more statements from other things.

Try thinking for yourself and you might understand.

 

[libby]

Gotta jump in on what I've been gleaning from JPC posts on other threads. Does JPC believe there is no hell, or just that it doesn't last forever?
Let's start with the latter...and I'm going to try to be brief, so allow me some latitude here.
If I "sin" against a dog, what are the consequences? Someone from PETA might scold me, or a fine might be slapped on me for abuse of an animal. If I commit the same offense, let's say hitting/beating, against a person, then the punishment and/or fine would be greater, agreed??
What if I hit/assault a police officer, judge, or the president? The consequences for those acts become greater and greater as I offend someone who is due greater respect.
So, apply this to our offenses against God. We hurt and assault Him with our sins repeatedly, so what is the appropriate punishment based on His infinite goodness, righteousness, etc? Infinite hellfire.
This all presupposes that the sinner is unrepentant, of course. I'm sure there are those who think His Infinite Love will save in the end, but that doesn't work either based on the aforementioned. Love demands discipline and justice, not a free for all.

 

[Xaquin44]

Hey, another quick (maybe) question I thought of after reading Libbys post.

Why do you get eternity in hell?

I mean lets say you live 75 years and only really start sinning around 13 or something. Is being minorly bad (since I've been told everyone is a sinner) for 62 years +/- deserving of ETERNITY in hell?

Seems kind of drastic imho.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Yo James it doesnt mater whether you use Hades, Tartarus or Gehenna they all get you to the same place.

gehenna a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

tartaroō
tar-tar-o'-o
From ΤάρταροςTartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.

hadēs
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.

So whats your point Hebrew and Aramaic Greek the name changes but the discription dosent, by the way I was looking at a translation by an Assyrian besides just using the dictionary.

But the good news is you won, I wasted an hour chasing down your nonsense.

Well reciting the words from a Christian dictionary that promotes the Orthodoxy certainly is not contradicting my point that Orthodoxy is completely wrong.

Hades - link HERE, the Greek God of the underworld.

Tartarus - link HERE, the Greek mythology of torment after death, but Jesus was not a Greek.

Gehenna - link HERE, meaning "Valley of Hinnom".

It is only a violent and unjust concept that could envision people burning in torment for all eternity.

Such a concept of the Orthodox "Hell" can not come out of loving thy enemies link HERE.

 

[libby]

Hey, another quick (maybe) question I thought of after reading Libbys post.

Why do you get eternity in hell?

I mean lets say you live 75 years and only really start sinning around 13 or something. Is being minorly bad (since I've been told everyone is a sinner) for 62 years +/- deserving of ETERNITY in hell?

Seems kind of drastic imho.

Well, is life in prison drastic if you murder a 10 y/o vs. a 58 y/o??
Again, hell assumes you are unrepentant. It also assumes that you are not trying to grow in holiness. (or goodness, if you prefer) The natural laws that most of us try to live by come from God, so if a person has not been properly taught, or dies with some other "mitigating" circumstance, we know God will make a perfect judgement.

 

[mAlice]

Yo James it doesnt mater whether you use Hades, Tartarus or Gehenna they all get you to the same place.

gehenna
a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

tartaroō
tar-tar-o'-o
From ΤάρταροςTartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.

hadēs
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.

So whats your point Hebrew and Aramaic Greek the name changes but the discription dosent, by the way I was looking at a translation by an Assyrian besides just using the dictionary.

But the good news is you won, I wasted an hour chasing down your nonsense.

Hades

Hades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and I find the Watchtower take on Hades/sheol very interesting because they know how to research outside of the bible.

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mAlice]

hades
One entry found.

Hades



Main Entry: Ha·des
Pronunciation: \ˈhā-(ˌ)dēz\
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek Aidēs, Āidēs, Haidēs
Date: 1597
1: pluto
2: the underground abode of the dead in Greek mythology
3: sheol
4often not capitalized : hell 1a


sheol
One entry found.

Sheol



Main Entry: She·ol
Pronunciation: \shē-ˈōl, ˈshē-ˌ\
Function: noun
Etymology: Hebrew Shĕ'ōl
Date: 1597
: the abode of the dead in early Hebrew thought


Gehenna Gehenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Xaquin44]

Well, is life in prison drastic if you murder a 10 y/o vs. a 58 y/o??
Again, hell assumes you are unrepentant. It also assumes that you are not trying to grow in holiness. (or goodness, if you prefer) The natural laws that most of us try to live by come from God, so if a person has not been properly taught, or dies with some other "mitigating" circumstance, we know God will make a perfect judgement.

Well, murder sentences are for (lets say) life. That's what? 80 years at the most?

Vs. eternity in hell. Eternity is so big the human mind can't begin to measure it. So, you can get an eternity in hell for as little not outright worshiping god according to some (even on these boards).


How does that sound?

Also, since no one has literally spoken with god (spoken to, sure, but not with) there is really no guarentee anyone is doing this right?

Just look at the posts on this board for an example. Starman disagrees with Toxick on some things who disagrees with Marie on some things who disagrees with Me on some things who disagrees with This person on some things, and everyone disagrees with JPC.

According to just about everyone on these boards (well this part of them) everyone else will end up spending time uncharted and unfathomable in hell.

But everyones own story is right right?

Heh.