Was Christ Who He Said He Was?

[mAlice]

Its like your view of the bible, your only selecting one third of the defination and throwing away the other 2/3rds.

Wrong. He's giving you the original translations, before man made them into something to use as a scare/control tactic. That's one of the reasons I don't believe in god, or that the words in the bible were inspired by god.

 

[fredcaudle]

Well that is the best question of them all and most people fail to seek out that answer.

The "Judgement" is not like the Judges and Judgements of human Courts and human laws.

The real definition of "Judgement" is given in the Bible in the book of Judges telling the Judges and Judgement means to give instructions concerning right and wrong.

The Godly judgements is not to condemn and curse people - the Judgements of God are for salvation and for righteousness.

Jesus even explained how Judgement Day would be a second chance for the dead link HERE.

Jesus and God are loving and compassionate and forgiving and they do not hurt and burn people for all eternity.

In any language, "wrath of God" is pretty clear, my friend.

Jesus said,
"I will judge you by you own words... You knew, did you, that I am a hard man.... Take his mina from him... bring them here and kill them in front of me..."

Hard words for everyone getting saved by Jesus' own blood - today is the day of salvation, not "tomorrow".

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

In any language, "wrath of God" is pretty clear, my friend.

Jesus said,
"I will judge you by you own words... You knew, did you, that I am a hard man.... Take his mina from him... bring them here and kill them in front of me..."

Hard words for everyone getting saved by Jesus' own blood - today is the day of salvation, not "tomorrow".

That is mixing up the "wrath of God" with the "wrath of men" from the parable by Jesus link HERE.

Plus I must point out that "death" and "killing" do mean "death to sin" and "killing the body of sin" and saving the new creature in Christ.

We still need to live correctly now or suffer accordingly, but then comes salvation for all.

 

[libby]

Well that is the best question of them all and most people fail to seek out that answer.

The "Judgement" is not like the Judges and Judgements of human Courts and human laws.

The real definition of "Judgement" is given in the Bible in the book of Judges telling the Judges and Judgement means to give instructions concerning right and wrong.

The Godly judgements is not to condemn and curse people - the Judgements of God are for salvation and for righteousness.

Jesus even explained how Judgement Day would be a second chance for the dead link HERE.

Jesus and God are loving and compassionate and forgiving and they do not hurt and burn people for all eternity.

Would you please tell me where you are looking in Judges?
And how do you get "second chance" out of the passage in Matthew you linked? The fate of Sodom and Gomorrah is more tolerable than the fate of a city that does not listen to the Gospel preached by the 12? What is worse than the total annihilation? Seems to me that infinite fire would be more intolerable.

 

[fredcaudle]

That is mixing up the "wrath of God" with the "wrath of men" from the parable by Jesus link HERE.

Plus I must point out that "death" and "killing" do mean "death to sin" and "killing the body of sin" and saving the new creature in Christ.

We still need to live correctly now or suffer accordingly, but then comes salvation for all.

riiiiiggggggght....

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Would you please tell me where you are looking in Judges?

It was a mistake to say it was only the Book of Judges because references to the Judges of God are given in many places in the Bible.

And the book of Judges gives us an example and not a direct prophesy.

But one link for the Book of Judges is HERE and another link to 2 Samual is link HERE.

So these verses show us that the terms "Judge" and "Judgement" does not mean just "guilty or innocent" on Judgement Day as is done in American made Courts of law.

And how do you get "second chance" out of the passage in Matthew you linked? The fate of Sodom and Gomorrah is more tolerable than the fate of a city that does not listen to the Gospel preached by the 12? What is worse than the total annihilation? Seems to me that infinite fire would be more intolerable.

I agree that infinate fire in a Hell would be MORE intolerable, but Jesus said more tolerable and not less.

More tolerable means leniency.

The "less tolerable" and "intolerable" does not equate to burning people for all eternity - it does not.

 

[libby]

It was a mistake to say it was only the Book of Judges because references to the Judges of God are given in many places in the Bible.

And the book of Judges gives us an example and not a direct prophesy.

But one link for the Book of Judges is HERE and another link to 2 Samual is link HERE.

So these verses show us that the terms "Judge" and "Judgement" does not mean just "guilty or innocent" on Judgement Day as is done in American made Courts of law.
I agree that infinate fire in a Hell would be MORE intolerable, but Jesus said more tolerable and not less.

More tolerable means leniency.

The "less tolerable" and "intolerable" does not equate to burning people for all eternity - it does not.

I think you need to re-read the Matthew passage. It says that S & G's punishment would be more tolerable than the fate of those not listening. So, the fate must be worse than the destruction by fire, therefore it must be the unquenchable fire mentioned elsewhere by Christ.
As to Judges, I'll get to that next.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

I think you need to re-read the Matthew passage. It says that S & G's punishment would be more tolerable than the fate of those not listening. So, the fate must be worse than the destruction by fire, therefore it must be the unquenchable fire mentioned elsewhere by Christ.
As to Judges, I'll get to that next.

You keep saying it "must be" but Jesus said forgiveness and God says "love thy enemies" link HERE.

So it must not be.

 

[Marie]

I think you need to re-read the Matthew passage. It says that S & G's punishment would be more tolerable than the fate of those not listening. So, the fate must be worse than the destruction by fire, therefore it must be the unquenchable fire mentioned elsewhere by Christ.
As to Judges, I'll get to that next.

In revelation 20-12
<DIR>Rev 20:12 And<SUP>2532 I saw1492 the3588 dead,3498 small3398 and2532 great,3173 stand2476 before1799 God;2316 and2532 the books975 were opened:455 and2532 another243 book975 was opened,455 which is3603thebook of life:2222 and2532 the3588 dead3498 were judged2919out of1537 those things which were written1125 in1722 the3588 books,975 according2596 to their848 works.2041</SUP>
<SUP></SUP>
<SUP></SUP>
<SUP>Strongs #2919 is given for judging the dead. Is this greek word wrong also.</SUP>
<SUP>I thought you might also like this tidbit in the time of Christ even if his red letter words were orignally uttered in Aramaic which we dont know anything that wanted wide circulation was published in greek so it wouldnt have required translation 3 centuries latter by scholars.</SUP>
<SUP>G2919
κρίνω
krinō
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.
</SUP><SUP>
</DIR></SUP>

 

[libby]

In revelation 20-12
<DIR>Rev 20:12 And<SUP>2532 I saw1492 the3588 dead,3498 small3398 and2532 great,3173 stand2476 before1799 God;2316 and2532 the books975 were opened:455 and2532 another243 book975 was opened,455 which is3603thebook of life:2222 and2532 the3588 dead3498 were judged2919out of1537 those things which were written1125 in1722 the3588 books,975 according2596 to their848 works.2041</SUP>
<SUP></SUP>
<SUP></SUP>
<SUP>Strongs #2919 is given for judging the dead. Is this greek word wrong also.</SUP>
<SUP>I thought you might also like this tidbit in the time of Christ even if his red letter words were orignally uttered in Aramaic which we dont know anything that wanted wide circulation was published in greek so it wouldnt have required translation 3 centuries latter by scholars.</SUP>
<SUP>G2919
κρίνω
krinō
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.
</SUP><SUP>
</DIR></SUP>

Marie and JPC,
Perhaps I am missing something. JPC says everyone gets saved in the end. I am trying to show that Jesus said that the fate of those who do not believe in Him (by willfull rejection vs. lack of sufficient knowledge) will suffer a fate worse than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. S & G suffered total destruction, correct? So, the consequences have to be worse than that. Do you consider forgiveness and salvation a fate worse than S & G?
Marie, I'm really stumped by your post, it makes no sense to me.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

I am trying to show that Jesus said that the fate of those who do not believe in Him (by willfull rejection vs. lack of sufficient knowledge) will suffer a fate worse than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. S & G suffered total destruction, correct? So, the consequences have to be worse than that. Do you consider forgiveness and salvation a fate worse than S & G?

You are mistaken about that.

It is to be more "tolerable" for S & G link HERE and the key words of " more tolerable" does NOT in any way imply that less "tolerable" means burning in a Hell fire for all eternity.

For whatever reason you may want it to be saying the torture of people but the real God of the Bible does not purposely hurt people for all eternity.

Forgiveness and salvation is not a worse fate but it is more tolerant for those that sin greater than those that sin lesser.

Marie, I'm really stumped by your post, it makes no sense to me.

Nobody could understand that post of hers as it is senseless.

 

[Marie]

Marie and JPC,
Perhaps I am missing something. JPC says everyone gets saved in the end. I am trying to show that Jesus said that the fate of those who do not believe in Him (by willfull rejection vs. lack of sufficient knowledge) will suffer a fate worse than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. S & G suffered total destruction, correct? So, the consequences have to be worse than that. Do you consider forgiveness and salvation a fate worse than S & G?
Marie, I'm really stumped by your post, it makes no sense to me.

James said earlier, that judgement dosent mean to judge.

Well that is the best question of them all and most people fail to seek out that answer.

The "Judgement" is not like the Judges and Judgements of human Courts and human laws.

The real definition of "Judgement" is given in the Bible in the book of Judges telling the Judges and Judgement means to give instructions concerning right and wrong.

The Godly judgements is not to condemn and curse people - the Judgements of God are for salvation and for righteousness.

Jesus even explained how Judgement Day would be a second chance for the dead link HERE.

I was just pointing out as ussual, he is wrong and taking things so far out of context. Sorry for the confusion I pointed that directly at him and if he didnt get it, It was because he chose not to.

I concur with what your saying, and like I told James many times, if he wants to silently hold on to his false beliefs thats up to him, but if he misleads so much as one person and causes them to go to hell with his false teaching.

<DIR>2Pe 2:1 And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall bring in besides destructive sects, and the Master who bought them denying, bringing to themselves quick destruction,
2Pe 2:2 and many shall follow out their destructive ways, because of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of,
2Pe 2:3 and in covetousness, with moulded words, of you they shall make merchandise, whose judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction doth not slumber.
</DIR>

 

[libby]

You are mistaken about that.

It is to be more "tolerable" for S & G link HERE and the key words of " more tolerable" does NOT in any way imply that less "tolerable" means burning in a Hell fire for all eternity.

For whatever reason you may want it to be saying the torture of people but the real God of the Bible does not purposely hurt people for all eternity.

Forgiveness and salvation is not a worse fate but it is more tolerant for those that sin greater than those that sin lesser.

Nobody could understand that post of hers as it is senseless.

Okay, JPC, I'll bow out.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

<DIR>2Pe 2:1 And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall bring in besides destructive sects, and the Master who bought them denying, bringing to themselves quick destruction,
2Pe 2:2 and many shall follow out their destructive ways, because of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of,
2Pe 2:3 and in covetousness, with moulded words, of you they shall make merchandise, whose judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction doth not slumber.
</DIR>

The point of these Bible verses is that we all must decide who preaches false and just what parts are correct and true.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Okay, JPC, I'll bow out.

Okay, and you are welcome.

 

[Marie]

The point of these Bible verses is that we all must decide who preaches false and just what parts are correct and true.

I believe the word of God does that!

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

I believe the word of God does that!

That is just a cliche and it adds no substance to the discussion here.

Since you are claiming the Bible states one thing and I am pointing out the Bible saying it differently,

then each person must consider what the Bible is saying themslves and the "cliche" is only misleading.

Even though you might pretend that the "word of God" speaks for you - that does not show and it does not add up.

God does not torture people in a "hell" and everyone does get saved.

 

[Marie]

That is just a cliche and it adds no substance to the discussion here.

Since you are claiming the Bible states one thing and I am pointing out the Bible saying it differently,

then each person must consider what the Bible is saying themslves and the "cliche" is only misleading.

Even though you might pretend that the "word of God" speaks for you - that does not show and it does not add up.

God does not torture people in a "hell" and everyone does get saved.

Thanks for your response and your opinion, regretably it conflicts with all the great minds of all time and scripture itself. When studying things I always look for more than one source to back things up.
Have a great day!

 

[jaywade24]

Even though you might pretend that the "word of God" speaks for you - that does not show and it does not add up.

JPC ,

your words really trouble me here,

the 2 of you disagree, that is fair enough as men and women we will do that at times.
However to say that she is "pretending to hear the word of God" really strikes me as the wrong thing to say, how or who are you to say that God has not spoken to her.... I could not say he hasn't spoken to you .... I know God has spoken to be me, I have also recently discovered he's being trying to talk to me for quite some time, I only recently received his words.... I lack the words to describe what this was like, I can tell you though that it has moved me in such a way that much of my life is being reshaped.

Again to question how God has spoken to her might not be the best idea

 

[forever jewel]

The point of these Bible verses is that we all must decide who preaches false and just what parts are correct and true.

How do you decide which "preachers" are true or false?