Was Christ Who He Said He Was?

[Xaquin44]

aw I missed another christian fight =(

funny how you all have it right, but none of you will agree with any other 100%


good luck telling each other what is right and what is wrong as if you alone are privy to the real inner workings of god and jesus (be they the same or not).

edit: also, I love it when people talk about 'context' when regarding the bible, as if they have any idea what it was like being a person born and raised in the middle east 2,000 years ago.

 

[ItalianScallion]

The JW's and Mormon's interpret the same Scripture differently, and while with respect to the Trinity I agree with you, you have no basis for telling them that they are mistaken. You cannot simply tell another person, "Hey, you're wrong, I'm right, and you'd better believe as I do or you'll face punishment by God".

Just pull up your post again Libby and hit the edit button. You can then delete it or make any corrections or additions.
The JW's & Mormons do NOT interpret the SAME scripture differently. They have entirely different scripture. They have the "New World translation and the book of Mormon respectively.
I hope you are going to change what you wrote. It seems you've never read the Bible or maybe haven't taken it seriously. If you had, you will see how many times we are commanded to expose false teachings, to contend for the faith and refute false doctrines about Jesus and the Godhead. In the gospels alone, Jesus was in the faces of many Jews & unbelievers. He never once failed to tell them that they can't believe whatever they want. You need to face the spiritual warfare going on here or sit back and watch & learn.

 

[ItalianScallion]

aw I missed another christian fight =(
funny how you all have it right, but none of you will agree with any other 100%

You might as well pull up a seat and learn too Xaquin. I make no secret about the fact that there are differences among Christians because they choose to go outside of the Bible. Paul made it clear in 1 Corinthians 4 vs 6 not to. It's normal and it doesn't mean that they aren't Christians if we differ on CERTAIN topics. Some topics we cannot differ on at all but many we can.

 

[itsbob]

Just pull up your post again Libby and hit the edit button. You can then delete it or make any corrections or additions.
The JW's & Mormons do NOT interpret the SAME scripture differently. They have entirely different scripture. They have the "New World translation and the book of Mormon respectively.
I hope you are going to change what you wrote. It seems you've never read the Bible or maybe haven't taken it seriously. If you had, you will see how many times we are commanded to expose false teachings, to contend for the faith and refute false doctrines about Jesus and the Godhead. In the gospels alone, Jesus was in the faces of many Jews & unbelievers. He never once failed to tell them that they can't believe whatever they want. You need to face the spiritual warfare going on here or sit back and watch & learn.

They are ALL false teachings..

You can't be more right than any other religion, they are all wrong. Religion is manmade, not spoken from God.. Jesus walked the planet as a man, there was no resurrection.. people didn't live for 600 - 1000 years.. bushes didn't talk.. etc.. etc..

You can't sit there on your throne and say MY religion is the RIGHT religion, the rest are heathens, non-believers when there are hundreds if not THOUSANDS of religions that pre date Christianity.

You say the Mormons are fake.. yet yours is real?

The Jews are wrong.. and how much do they pre-date Christianity??

What about the Buddhists.. how wrong are they?

Saying you are right and the rest of the world is wrong is pure arrogance or ignorance, or both.

I don't think you realize you are spreading hate and intolerance, I really believe you are probably a good person at heart, trying to live a good decent life, being an example for your children and others, but unknowingly you've been convinced to also show these same people that hate and intolerance is acceptable, for people that aren't like you, or don't believe what you believe in.

Personally I believe the better Christian, the better person, is the person that accepts differences and can love their fellow man despite the differences.

When you have THAT epiphany, being saved will pale in comparison.

 

[CRoyal]

They are ALL false teachings..

You can't be more right than any other religion, they are all wrong. Religion is manmade, not spoken from God.. Jesus walked the planet as a man, there was no resurrection.. people didn't live for 600 - 1000 years.. bushes didn't talk.. etc.. etc..

You can't sit there on your throne and say MY religion is the RIGHT religion, the rest are heathens, non-believers when there are hundreds if not THOUSANDS of religions that pre date Christianity.

You say the Mormons are fake.. yet yours is real?

The Jews are wrong.. and how much do they pre-date Christianity??

What about the Buddhists.. how wrong are they?

Saying you are right and the rest of the world is wrong is pure arrogance or ignorance, or both.

I don't think you realize you are spreading hate and intolerance, I really believe you are probably a good person at heart, trying to live a good decent life, being an example for your children and others, but unknowingly you've been convinced to also show these same people that hate and intolerance is acceptable, for people that aren't like you, or don't believe what you believe in.

Personally I believe the better Christian, the better person, is the person that accepts differences and can love their fellow man despite the differences.

When you have THAT epiphany, being saved will pale in comparison.

Losing battle bob.

I concur though, and well said.

 

[Starman3000m]

so you are in agreement with marie and starman that the only way to interpret the bible is the born again way :shrug:

like i said before, lots of christians disagree, in fact i would dare to say MOST christians dont have your "born again only" interpretation

Hi Tommy,

Needing to be "Born-Again" is what Yeshua (New Testament Jesus) stated in regard to becoming Children of God and receiving the Holy Spirit to guide us:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)

Jn:3:7: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)


The born-again factor:
1Pt:1:23: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


(from 1 Corinthians, Chapter 2)
9: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15: But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16: For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:27)

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14:26)

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (John 15:26)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)


1 John, Chapter 1 verses:

5: This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6: If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10: If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[forever jewel]

Hi Tommy,

Needing to be "Born-Again" is what Yeshua (New Testament Jesus) stated in regard to becoming Children of God and receiving the Holy Spirit to guide us:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)

Jn:3:7: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)


The born-again factor:
1Pt:1:23: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So, there are only 3 quotes you found in the ENTIRE bible that defend Marie, Italian and you? I'm convinced the bible only defends those who are born-again

The point of the Bible is to guide Christians, as a whole, towards an eternal life with God. While I would respect other quotes you mentioned, the three above tell me that you read the Bible with rose colored glasses, only seeing what defends your born-again viewpoint.

 

[forever jewel]

Sorry Jewel but the Bible says otherwise. 1 Corinthians 1 vs 18 and 2 vs 14.
Many people will be deceived by that kind of thinking. Matthew 7 vs 21-23. No one gets into heaven on the strength of their church denomination. You do have to be saved in order to understand many things in the Bible. You can understand some things but not all that you could if you were saved. This is why so many here do not know what they are talking about when it comes to God and they get mad when a few of us say they are wrong.

So, according to your priest, you're a "child of God" because you are "a beautiful, young, God loving lady"??? So looks are what it takes? We are NOT ALL children of God until we become "born again" Don't be deceived; John 1 vs 12, Romans 8 vs 14 & Galatians 3 vs 26.

I am not deceived, nor am I a child of God BECAUSE I happen to be young, "beautiful" (according to my priest) and God-loving. I didn't have to find God again. He's always been there for me and that's why I'm one of his children. I bet you'll be able to find a passage in the bible about God's children.

No one is born again until they accept Christ into their lives and LIVE LIKE He is there. Many say they are Christians but their actions & words clearly say otherwise. And baptism has nothing to do with one being saved. It is supposed to be a sign of one having accepted Jesus and living like it. Just like a wedding ring is a sign of marriage but it doesn't mean that everyone who wears one is married or that everyone who takes theirs off isn't.

Italian I'm glad you know me so well. Obviously through the internet you can tell that I won't be saved. Maybe I should attend the Church of ItalianScallion so I may learn from the Master

 

[Starman3000m]

So, there are only 3 quotes you found in the ENTIRE bible that defend Marie, Italian and you? I'm convinced the bible only defends those who are born-again

The point of the Bible is to guide Christians, as a whole, towards an eternal life with God. While I would respect other quotes you mentioned, the three above tell me that you read the Bible with rose colored glasses, only seeing what defends your born-again viewpoint.

Hi jewel,

If I had posted all the scripture that speaks of living a Spirit-filled life, being born of the Spirit and the work of the Holy Spirit in the life of a born-again Child of God, it would take up too much space on this thread.

The fact that if Yeshua (New Testament Jesus) mentioned it is enough to try to comprehend what He meant and how it applies in our personal relationship with God - through the intercession of the Holy Spirit. This is where we receive our strength to overcome frustrations and discouragements that the world is full of and it is the power of God's Holy Spirit that guides us as we learn to trust more in God and not in ourselves or other people - including many religious leaders of today who, like in the times of Yeshua, led people away with false teachings, religious traditions and rituals that were not of God.

 

[itsbob]

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14:26)

If God IS the spirit, and God IS jesus.. whey does he keep sending himself? Why doesn't it say, I'll visit you as the Holy Spirit? Or He'll (God) visit you as the HOly Spirit?

Saying God is going to send Jesus.. send the Holy Spirit.. means they are three different beings.. God is staying where he is, and sending someone else in his place.

Of course you use words like Yeshua.. so you must be much smarter than I am.. I understand that's the secret sign of the most humblest, smartest, the best and most religous Christians in the entire universe!!

I can't believe the lot of you can be as arrogant as you are, and in the same breath claim to be Christian. You're about as Christian as David Koresh.

 

[tommyjones]

Hi Tommy,

Needing to be "Born-Again" is what Yeshua (New Testament Jesus) stated in regard to becoming Children of God and receiving the Holy Spirit to guide us:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)

Jn:3:7: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)


The born-again factor:
1Pt:1:23: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


(from 1 Corinthians, Chapter 2)
9: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15: But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16: For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:27)

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14:26)

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (John 15:26)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)


1 John, Chapter 1 verses:

5: This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6: If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10: If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

and that is YOUR INTERPRETATION!!!!


according to ABC ABCNEWS.com : Poll: Most Americans Say They're Christian
"Thirty-seven percent of all Christians describe themselves as born-again or evangelical...."


and i am willing to bet that most of those dont have your bigoted views. Point being, you are going by your interpretaion of the bible, there ARE MANY OTHERS. your only answer to that is "well they are all wrong and i am right"

you can pull qoutes out of the bible to support just about any postition, like justifying the killing of a ones child in the name of god, doesn't mean that is the onyl interpretation, or that it is even close to what GOD wants.

you have to remember that the bible was written by men, men full of problems and agendas just like people today....

 

[tommyjones]

If God IS the spirit, and God IS jesus.. whey does he keep sending himself? Why doesn't it say, I'll visit you as the Holy Spirit? Or He'll (God) visit you as the HOly Spirit?

Saying God is going to send Jesus.. send the Holy Spirit.. means they are three different beings.. God is staying where he is, and sending someone else in his place.

Of course you use words like Yeshua.. so you must be much smarter than I am.. I understand that's the secret sign of the most humblest, smartest, the best and most religous Christians in the entire universe!!

I can't believe the lot of you can be as arrogant as you are, and in the same breath claim to be Christian. You're about as Christian as David Koresh.

i was thinking jim jones.......

 

[libby]

Just pull up your post again Libby and hit the edit button. You can then delete it or make any corrections or additions.
The JW's & Mormons do NOT interpret the SAME scripture differently. They have entirely different scripture. They have the "New World translation and the book of Mormon respectively.
I hope you are going to change what you wrote. It seems you've never read the Bible or maybe haven't taken it seriously. If you had, you will see how many times we are commanded to expose false teachings, to contend for the faith and refute false doctrines about Jesus and the Godhead. In the gospels alone, Jesus was in the faces of many Jews & unbelievers. He never once failed to tell them that they can't believe whatever they want. You need to face the spiritual warfare going on here or sit back and watch & learn.

IT,
Seems I have never read the Bible?? I dare say, you have no idea how much I have read, each and every day. With that, on what grounds do you have the right to say your interpretation is correct and mine erroneous?
I never said we should not try to explain the cause of our joy.
Both JW's and Mormon's use the Bible, however their translations may differ. But, that leaves you in the unenviable position of trying to prove to someone why they should believe your translation vs. theirs. The entire basis for your theology (and, to be clear, is not the same as your faith) is built on sand, and it collapses when pressed.

 

[libby]

If God IS the spirit, and God IS jesus.. whey does he keep sending himself? Why doesn't it say, I'll visit you as the Holy Spirit? Or He'll (God) visit you as the HOly Spirit?

Saying God is going to send Jesus.. send the Holy Spirit.. means they are three different beings.. God is staying where he is, and sending someone else in his place.

Of course you use words like Yeshua.. so you must be much smarter than I am.. I understand that's the secret sign of the most humblest, smartest, the best and most religous Christians in the entire universe!!

I can't believe the lot of you can be as arrogant as you are, and in the same breath claim to be Christian. You're about as Christian as David Koresh.

One of the ways of understanding the Trinity (at least for me), is that the first person, God the Father, is the Creator. When God became man He "became" (though He always was) the second person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ. That is the Person that redeemed us, and that is the characteristic we primarily focus on when contemplating Him. The third person is the Holy Spirit, who we consider the giver of the gifts. Those gifts are supernatural, like patience, humility, etc. To explain God requires some condescention (hmmm...did I spell that correctly??) and we are limited in our ability to do so because of our humanity, but this is just a stab at it.
So, in short, each "person" of the Holy Trinity has a different role in His relationship to men, and again, that role is our primary focus when we think of that particular person.

 

[Marie]

IT,
Seems I have never read the Bible?? I dare say, you have no idea how much I have read, each and every day. With that, on what grounds do you have the right to say your interpretation is correct and mine erroneous?
I never said we should not try to explain the cause of our joy.
Both JW's and Mormon's use the Bible, however their translations may differ. But, that leaves you in the unenviable position of trying to prove to someone why they should believe your translation vs. theirs. The entire basis for your theology (and, to be clear, is not the same as your faith) is built on sand, and it collapses when pressed.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) claims to be the true Christian church. The LDS church does not like being referred to as a cult,<SUP>1</SUP> but they are a cult because their teachings differ significantly from historic Christian theology. This page explains what specific LDS doctrines make the LDS church a cult. As you will see, these differences are not merely minor changes in theology, but major disagreements about the nature of God, Jesus Christ, and mankind.
All material presented on this page comes directly from LDS scripture (the "Standard Works") or the current LDS teaching book, Gospel Principles. Links to the official LDS website (lds.org) for all supporting information can be found in the references. This paper examines some of the most fundamental aspects of theology:

1. The nature of God
   1. Christianity - one God
   2. LDS church - many gods
   3. Christianity - God is Spirit
   4. LDS Church - God has a physical body
   5. Christianity - God is eternal
   6. LDS Church - God was created
2. The nature of Jesus Christ
   1. Christianity - eternal God
   2. LDS church - first of many sons
3. The nature of mankind
   1. Christianity - no human preexistence
   2. LDS Church - humans preexisted as spirit beings
   3. Christianity - humans cannot become gods
   4. LDS Church - humans can become gods
4. The nature of the creation
   1. Christianity - God created from nothing
   2. LDS Church - God organizes existing matter
5. References

Why the LDS Church is a Cult: Theological Differences Between Christian and LDS Doctrines

 

[forever jewel]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) claims to be the true Christian church. The LDS church does not like being referred to as a cult,<SUP>1</SUP> but they are a cult because their teachings differ significantly from historic Christian theology. This page explains what specific LDS doctrines make the LDS church a cult. As you will see, these differences are not merely minor changes in theology, but major disagreements about the nature of God, Jesus Christ, and mankind.
All material presented on this page comes directly from LDS scripture (the "Standard Works") or the current LDS teaching book, Gospel Principles. Links to the official LDS website (lds.org) for all supporting information can be found in the references. This paper examines some of the most fundamental aspects of theology:

1. The nature of God
   1. Christianity - one God
   2. LDS church - many gods
   3. Christianity - God is Spirit
   4. LDS Church - God has a physical body
   5. Christianity - God is eternal
   6. LDS Church - God was created
2. The nature of Jesus Christ
   1. Christianity - eternal God
   2. LDS church - first of many sons
3. The nature of mankind
   1. Christianity - no human preexistence
   2. LDS Church - humans preexisted as spirit beings
   3. Christianity - humans cannot become gods
   4. LDS Church - humans can become gods
4. The nature of the creation
   1. Christianity - God created from nothing
   2. LDS Church - God organizes existing matter
5. References

Why the LDS Church is a Cult: Theological Differences Between Christian and LDS Doctrines

You quote websites like you quote the bible

 

[Marie]

A Short History of the Watchtower Organization

Man if you read this you will either laugh or cry. Personally I think its sad that anyone, knowing this history would still be interested. I guess most involved for years still dont know it.


A Short History of the Watchtower Organization

 

[Marie]

You quote websites like you quote the bible

So whats your point?
Everyone learns from somewhere. Some read their Bible which I do, Some go to school.
Would you rather a personal opinion, or factual knoweledge with refrences?

I am sorry but I dont get it. Would you rather go to a doctor with a degree for a prognossis or the old lady down the street?

Sounds like your trying to shoot the messenger, because you dont like the message.

 

[forever jewel]

Sounds like your trying to shoot the messenger, because you dont like the message.

You're right. I don't like that I.S., you and a few others preach the "born-again" beliefs as if it are the one true belief. You should appreciate the diversity through out the world and maybe, just maybe, consider that the entire world has the same spiritual goal, just different paths to get there.

If we're all going to the same place, does it really matter what others believe? I respect your beliefs and don't care what you choose to believe. I DO care when you try forcing your beliefs upon others.

 

[tommyjones]

Would you rather a personal opinion, or factual knoweledge with refrences?

I am sorry but I dont get it. Would you rather go to a doctor with a degree for a prognossis or the old lady down the street?

Sounds like your trying to shoot the messenger, because you dont like the message.

now thats some funny shiat right there. you think your opinion is factual knowledge bwahahahahahaha

She doesn't like the message of hate you are spreading in the name of Jesus. What is wrong with her telling you that?