We are losing the war on terror

[Spoiled]

Backed into a corner with our imposing culture? Would you like to explain how they are backed into a corner by our culture? TIA.

Put this in historical perspective please and not just what has been going on in the past 2 years.

Afghanistan's Taliban is a direct result of our culture, the cold war... The communists (original infidels) tried to take over Afghanistan and the muslim freedom fighters defeated them. Communism wasn't religious, the people want rule by religion. Moving forward a bit, India and Pakistan, India is becoming more secular and industrialized and they are becoming more wealthy. More wealth and more focus on the maths and sciences means they can make more progress in their fight against Pakistan, thus making Pakistan struggle to keep up. These people are realizing that without industrializing they won't be a very good world player. These people value religion over education such as math and science. They don't view success in wealth, in order to industrialize they must change to do so, thus their religion is no longer central to their life. Many of them think their religion needs to be the most important thing in their life.

 

[FromTexas]

Afghanistan's Taliban is a direct result of our culture, the cold war... The communists (original infidels) tried to take over Afghanistan and the muslim freedom fighters defeated them.

One: The Taliban was not a result of our culture. Number two, the cold war was not a cultural issue. Third, the Taliban only had to deal with us in such harsh terms because they were protecting Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden after Sept. 11. None of that was a cultural issue.

In addition, the vast majority of Afghanistan has come out and showed their willingness for freedom, the removal of theocratic rule, and demonstrated the culture they have always wanted (not what we threw on them).

The rest of your answer was neither here nor there about us putting their culture in a corner.

 

[Spoiled]

One: The Taliban was not a result of our culture. Number two, the cold war was not a cultural issue. Third, the Taliban only had to deal with us in such harsh terms because they were protecting Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden after Sept. 11. None of that was a cultural issue.

In addition, the vast majority of Afghanistan has come out and showed their willingness for freedom, the removal of theocratic rule, and demonstrated the culture they have always wanted (not what we threw on them).

The rest of your answer was neither here nor there about us putting their culture in a corner.

The cold war was a war between 2 western/industrialized nations which is our culture, unless I am mistaken. Bin Laden's victory in Afghanistan was his start (we supported him as a freedom fighter and he defeated the Soviets, which makes it a proxy war of the cold war). The rest is our ideas (again industrialization secularism) giving their enemies the upper hand. In addition to that Turkey and Saudi Arabia have become more secular and are on more friendly terms with us, which would suggest we cause decline in religion.

 

[FromTexas]

The cold war was a war between 2 western/industrialized nations which is our culture, unless I am mistaken. Bin Laden's victory in Afghanistan was his start (we supported him as a freedom fighter and he defeated the Soviets, which makes it a proxy war of the cold war). The rest is our ideas (again industrialization secularism) giving their enemies the upper hand. In addition to that Turkey and Saudi Arabia have become more secular and are on more friendly terms with us, which would suggest we cause decline in religion.

Sauidi Arabia less secular? You are aware they are one of the more fundamental countries in the Middle East. You know, the reason why a bunch of libbies like to scream out all the time saying we go after Saddam and Al-Qaeda but are hippocrites for not going after Saudi Arabia. Please keep up.

The cold war was not a cultural war. The Cold War was related to our prevention of the imperialistic tendencies of Mother Russia to slowly engulf the earth, if they could. Our conflict with Russia caused changes in our culture and caused the adoption of Anti-Ruskie sentiment in our culture. Our culture did not dictate that we have a war with Russia. Also, the cold war was not a war. It was an escalation of military might until one side or the other broke. Of course, our industrialized society was bound to win against an agrarian culture.

Do not confuse culture for international political actions evolving from historical actions. Culture changes from the effects of world events and political wrangling. It can also effect world events. However, all political/military actions are not cultural and all culture is not related directly to world politics. They are mutally exclusive ideas.

To say the Cold War was a culture war is uninformed. It was a "war" of political self-interest on all sides. That is what countries do, act in their best interests politically.

 

[vraiblonde]

Again, you think its right they force their women to wear the bee keeper suits? It's part of their religion - who cares? The Amish wear different clothing than I do, too. BFD.

You think its right that they feel offended by us? They can "feel" however they want - it's only their actions that concern me.

That may not be why we invaded their nation, but it cetainly has turned into one of the justifications of the war... Wearing Muslim garb and subjugating their women isn't why we went to war with them. The ONLY reason we're in Afghanistan is because of the Taliban and their 9-11 shenanigans. Osama and the T's have been running that country like religious zealots forever and we never got involved. Then they MADE it our business, so here we are.

...

 

[Spoiled]

Sauidi Arabia less secular? You are aware they are one of the more fundamental countries in the Middle East. You know, the reason why a bunch of libbies like to scream out all the time saying we go after Saddam and Al-Qaeda but are hippocrites for not going after Saudi Arabia. Please keep up.

The cold war was not a cultural war. The Cold War was related to our prevention of the imperialistic tendencies of Mother Russia to slowly engulf the earth, if they could. Our conflict with Russia caused changes in our culture and caused the adoption of Anti-Ruskie sentiment in our culture. Our culture did not dictate that we have a war with Russia. Also, the cold war was not a war. It was an escalation of military might until one side or the other broke. Of course, our industrialized society was bound to win against an agrarian culture.

Do not confuse culture for international political actions evolving from historical actions. Culture changes from the effects of world events and political wrangling. It can also effect world events. However, all political/military actions are not cultural and all culture is not related directly to world politics. They are mutally exclusive ideas.

To say the Cold War was a culture war is uninformed. It was a "war" of political self-interest on all sides. That is what countries do, act in their best interests politically.

You are not understanding me, I am saying the cold war was one fought by Western culture as a whole, against itself. It influenced non-Western nations (Afghanistan, iraq, and many more) which had a completely different set of values than the US and USSR. Though we were different we were the same in many respects. There were nations that had very different ideas from the US and USSR and we influenced their nations and cultures with our own ideas.

 

[BuddyLee]

Backed into a corner with our imposing culture? Would you like to explain how they are backed into a corner by our culture? TIA.

Put this in historical perspective please and not just what has been going on in the past 2 years.

Perhaps they fear the American enterprise will float into their country just like most others in the world. I feel they have in the past and are still planning now pre-emptive strikes because of the way we live and because of our imposing culture to other countries. Being an American you would think this would be a good thing for us spreading our idealism. However, you have to realize that there will always be some opposition to any idea, in this case Americanization.

 

[vraiblonde]

Perhaps they fear the American enterprise will float into their country just like most others in the world.

Oh for Pete's sake! They have a government, they can say 'no' to McDonald's. They just don't want to because of the $$$$. Let's face it - there's not much of a global market for falafel on a stick.

 

[Christy]

Oh for Pete's sake! They have a government, they can say 'no' to McDonald's. They just don't want to because of the $$$$. Let's face it - there's not much of a global market for falafel on a stick.

BL, Spoiled, why is it so hard for you two to grasp the plain and simple fact that radical muslims want us dead.

Lemme try and make it simpler for you. Say you have a stalker, that leaves you threatening phone calls on a daily basis, scopes out your daily routines, and looks for their chance to beat you and/or your family members silly when you least expect it? How would you react to that?

 

[FromTexas]

You are not understanding me, I am saying the cold war was one fought by Western culture as a whole, against itself. It influenced non-Western nations (Afghanistan, iraq, and many more) which had a completely different set of values than the US and USSR. Though we were different we were the same in many respects. There were nations that had very different ideas from the US and USSR and we influenced their nations and cultures with our own ideas.

Once again, let me spell it out to you. How should the arab cultures have felt backed into a corner by our culture to do things like 9/11?

Or, do you not realize the real reason for Arab aggression against the United States and are busy sucking down the kool-aid?

No one doubts that the cold war had an effect on the rest of the world. The question was how our culture was effecting their culture to feel like our culture had pushed them into a corner. It wasn't a synopsis of world events that caused the cold war or effected other countries. Nothing the cold war did caused 9/11. If anything, your recital of events from the cold war should have prevented us from 9/11 based on that argument because we helped Osama liberate Aghanistan.

 

[FromTexas]

Perhaps they fear the American enterprise will float into their country just like most others in the world. I feel they have in the past and are still planning now pre-emptive strikes because of the way we live and because of our imposing culture to other countries. Being an American you would think this would be a good thing for us spreading our idealism. However, you have to realize that there will always be some opposition to any idea, in this case Americanization.

Actually, most Middle Easterners LOVE American culture. Palestinians, Saudis, Jordanians, Syrians, etc... What they do not like is American politics. Talk to people from there. They will tell you how they love Hollywood, American music, food, and other culture. What they tell you they hate is American politics. Specifically, our support of Israel. Fundamentally, it comes down to one main issue. We prevent them from wiping Israel off the face of the Earth. They don't want a settlement; they don't want understanding between Israel and Arabs; they want Israel gone, nonexistent, and pile of ash.

 

[snuzzy]

Actually, most Middle Easterners LOVE American culture. Palestinians, Saudis, Jordanians, Syrians, etc... What they do not like is American politics. Talk to people from there. They will tell you how they love Hollywood, American music, food, and other culture. What they tell you they hate is American politics. Specifically, our support of Israel. Fundamentally, it comes down to one main issue. We prevent them from wiping Israel off the face of the Earth. They don't want a settlement; they don't want understanding between Israel and Arabs; they want Israel gone, nonexistent, and pile of ash.

Kind of like Osama wanting the U.S. to be a "pile of ash"? To presume that if we were to stop the war, or to have never started it in the first place, would keep us safe is ignorance in the purest sense of the word! We have been attacked by terrorists since 1976, with little or nothing being done to retaliate. Did that stop us from being targets? No, and it never will. That's the ostrich sticking it's head in the sand. I once worked with an Islamic woman, in childcare...taking care of infants, she was the most caring and peaceful person I ever knew, it is not the religion, it is evil leaders such as Bin Laden keeping their power through brain washing and fear, he's a Hitler, Jim Jones (remember him? He too killed his own people!)...We have to fight, it's regretable and sad, but not a choice, it is now down to kill or be killed.

 

[Spoiled]

Once again, let me spell it out to you. How should the arab cultures have felt backed into a corner by our culture to do things like 9/11?

Or, do you not realize the real reason for Arab aggression against the United States and are busy sucking down the kool-aid?

No one doubts that the cold war had an effect on the rest of the world. The question was how our culture was effecting their culture to feel like our culture had pushed them into a corner. It wasn't a synopsis of world events that caused the cold war or effected other countries. Nothing the cold war did caused 9/11. If anything, your recital of events from the cold war should have prevented us from 9/11 based on that argument because we helped Osama liberate Aghanistan.

The cold war showed them all we care about is ourselves, there are only two times we are intrested in them: if gas prices are high or if the communists are doing something. Our constant support for Israel doesn't help either. We only support them when we are benefitting and when we aren't we are backing their history-long enemy, Israel. US supporting their enemies, making them stronger and a player on the global level does threaten them, especially when they are of a different religion.

 

[snuzzy]

The cold war showed them all we care about is ourselves, there are only two times we are intrested in them: if gas prices are high or if the communists are doing something. Our constant support for Israel doesn't help either. We only support them when we are benefitting and when we aren't we are backing their history-long enemy, Israel. US supporting their enemies, making them stronger and a player on the global level does threaten them, especially when they are of a different religion.

Therefore, by your reasoning, we should not support Israel? That presumes that we only support Israel to show our strength against Arabs...they want to annihilate Israel, that is evil and intolerant and we should "bow to that"? Again, that presumes that doing what Osama wants will keep us safe, and it won't, he is a terrorist for terror sake and there is no way we can appease him, or those like him.

 

[Spoiled]

Therefore, by your reasoning, we should not support Israel? That presumes that we only support Israel to show our strength against Arabs...they want to annihilate Israel, that is evil and intolerant and we should "bow to that"? Again, that presumes that doing what Osama wants will keep us safe, and it won't, he is a terrorist for terror sake and there is no way we can appease him, or those like him.

I didn't suggest that we do anything, I am simply stating why these people feel threatened.

 

[snuzzy]

I didn't suggest that we do anything, I am simply stating why these people feel threatened.

You're empathizing with the enemy, as John Kerry did with Vietnam...it will come back to hurt us.

 

[Spoiled]

You're empathizing with the enemy, as John Kerry did with Vietnam...it will come back to hurt us.

I am examining more angles than just mine. How is this hurting anyone? I want to see things through eyes other than my own. I would like an answer other than "we will get revenge." I am not content with them just being "evil doers".

 

[vraiblonde]

Tex...

...if I may butt in...

Actually, most Middle Easterners LOVE American culture. Palestinians, Saudis, Jordanians, Syrians, etc... What they do not like is American politics.

To expound on that theme the buzzwords are "modernize" and "westernize".

They wanna modernize and have cool gadgets like wrist watches and ICMB's but they do NOT want to 'westernize' IE, equal rights under law.

We, conversely, don't really want them to modernize to much UNTIL they westernize.

 

[Hessian]

Who are the "Evil Doers?"

I think it was Chuck Colson that pointed this out...forgive me if I am being redundant:

The more our society accepts abhorent behavior, disgusting films, drug addictions, moral-free lifestyles.....

AND: the more that is seen over in the Moslem world.....

the more it recruits young mostly ignorant fanatical moslems who could care less about "liberty, rights, voting, constitution, equality, free trade."
All they care about is annihilating the Great Satan. Our bombs are making less terrorists than our loose living broadcast on Al Jazeera. We need to show moral backbone...and restore our "Goodness" ...then our gifts of freedom, benevolence, education,...will appear genuine.
(and for those who believe: God will reward us--"What ever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me...")


SIDENOTE: My former students have come back from service in Iraq and said they are sick of the slanted news that is our steady diet: It is horribly biased. Also: there is a huge ignorance factor over there in the Iraqi public; schools have been underfunded and propaganda HQs for decades...it will take a long time to bring the Iraqi people up to a standard of western intelligence.
ie: "The war is over...where is our electricity?????Make it work!"...dur.

 

[vraiblonde]

I didn't suggest that we do anything, I am simply stating why these people feel threatened.

They feel threatened because we're "different" from them. We feel threatened because they fly airplanes into our buildings. Any questions?