We're in the last moments of world history...

[2ndAmendment]

James 2:18-20 (New American Standard Bible)

18But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

19You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Matthew 7:15-23

15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Salvation is not earned, but it does bring results. Jesus is not just a Savior. He is Lord; King of kings; Lord of lords.

A plumber can save you from a busted pipe. An electrician can save you from an electrical short. But you do not carry on a personal relationship with them (there may be rare exceptions).

Jesus is Lord. Recognizing that and submitting our will to His is part of the on going relationship. Without relationship; without Lordship, there is not salvation.

 

[Starman3000m]

The Result: Being Born Again

Ye Must Be Born Again

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)


That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:6-8)


Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Peter 1:23)

 

[hotcoffee]

Your additional comments are great - with the following caveat: I believe people must know and acknowledge (through initial conviction of the Holy Spirit) what they need to repent from first and that they need Jesus. It will be a decision for them to then individually go before God with a broken and contrite spirit and ask for God's Forgiveness and to receive the Free Gift of Salvation that is provided through the Atoning Blood of Christ. One needs to invite Christ into their life:

So.... a man is out in the dessert... all alone.... He has run out of water and food, he's somehow been injured. He remembers his mom talking about Jesus. He barely gets out the words.... "Jesus, I believe"

Is he saved?

Another man, goes to the church every time the doors are open. Cries in anguish over his sins every time the doors are open.... helps everyone else with the sinner's prayer.... has it memorized so that it will be genuine to those who need it... he even got baptized...

Is he saved?

It's a gift.... Jesus said there would be people who would call to Him and He would not recognize them.... It's a gift... you can't earn it.... How much repenting do you have to do? You can't possibly repent enough to earn eternal life....

I read somewhere that there will be people who will not receive salvation. I read that their hearts had been hardened.

It's a gift...

 

[PsyOps]

So.... a man is out in the dessert... all alone.... He has run out of water and food, he's somehow been injured. He remembers his mom talking about Jesus. He barely gets out the words.... "Jesus, I believe"

Is he saved?

Another man, goes to the church every time the doors are open. Cries in anguish over his sins every time the doors are open.... helps everyone else with the sinner's prayer.... has it memorized so that it will be genuine to those who need it... he even got baptized...

Is he saved?

It's a gift.... Jesus said there would be people who would call to Him and He would not recognize them.... It's a gift... you can't earn it.... How much repenting do you have to do? You can't possibly repent enough to earn eternal life....

I read somewhere that there will be people who will not receive salvation. I read that their hearts had been hardened.

It's a gift...

Only God knows what's in each of our hearts. The person in the desert; if he is sincere in his acceptance and died 2 seconds later, I'd say that person is saved. Again, only God knows this and he has the final say.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So.... a man is out in the dessert... all alone.... He has run out of water and food, he's somehow been injured. He remembers his mom talking about Jesus. He barely gets out the words.... "Jesus, I believe"

Is he saved?

Another man, goes to the church every time the doors are open. Cries in anguish over his sins every time the doors are open.... helps everyone else with the sinner's prayer.... has it memorized so that it will be genuine to those who need it... he even got baptized...

Is he saved?

It's a gift.... Jesus said there would be people who would call to Him and He would not recognize them.... It's a gift... you can't earn it.... How much repenting do you have to do? You can't possibly repent enough to earn eternal life....

I read somewhere that there will be people who will not receive salvation. I read that their hearts had been hardened.

It's a gift...

But there has to be a change of heart and recognition of the Lordship of Jesus. If there is no change of heart, there is no salvation. If that change of heart (repentance) happens whether it is the instant before a person dies or happened decades before death, then the person will be in God's kingdom according to the Bible.

Salvation cannot be earned and it is not deserved, but there is a prescribed process. It is not prescribed by me or any human; it is prescribed by God Himself.

It is a gift, but you have to accept a gift in order to have it. A gift can be under the Christmas tree. It is for you. But in order for you to posses it you have to get it.

The "It is a gift for all." comes out of the "everyone is saved in the end' which is contrary to what is taught in the Bible. While salvation is a gift and it is available to all, not all will accept the gift.

 

[UNA]

The path is said to be "narrow", indicating to me that most will not gain admittance. Sux to be us.


Unless those of us who have remained unassuming and logical are the ones who actually get in.

Wouldn't you love to see the pitiful looks on their faces?

 

[UNA]

I only believe in one God. Where did you get 2? He is the God of the OT & NT. Are you having trouble understanding the Godhead (The Trinity)? One God revealed in 3 distinct beings? That's who I believe in...

No bon bons, just infidels...

What it means is simply this: There are not "many ways" to Heaven as Oprah and others claim. There's only one way. I call her teachings: liberal theology (it has nothing to do with politics or Democrats though). Here's what Jesus said about entering Heaven:

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7 v 13). Jesus is that narrow gate...

How is the trinity different from polytheistic religions?

And I thought the bible said something like "the path to heaven is through me [Jesus]". Does that mean if you don't believe you go to hell? OR that Jesus is the one that will judge people in the end.

not trying to start things; just like to understand people's beliefs!

 

[2ndAmendment]

How is the trinity different from polytheistic religions?

And I thought the bible said something like "the path to heaven is through me [Jesus]". Does that mean if you don't believe you go to hell? OR that Jesus is the one that will judge people in the end.

not trying to start things; just like to understand people's beliefs!

Polytheistic religions have many gods. Judaism and Christianity have one God, YHWH. YHWH exhibits Himself is three ways; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Here is a Bible verse that covers both your questions.

John 14:6-14
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

 

[UNA]

Polytheistic religions have many gods. Judaism and Christianity have one God, YHWH. YHWH exhibits Himself is three ways; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Here is a Bible verse that covers both your questions.

I got the trinity and I can read the bible; I wanted and answer from someone here; in their own words.

I understand what the definition of the trinity is, but how is that any different from many neo-pagan beliefs where one entity is exhibited as the male and female god and goddess then from there as many 'sub' deities?

 

[2ndAmendment]

I got the trinity and I can read the bible; I wanted and answer from someone here; in their own words.

I understand what the definition of the trinity is, but how is that any different from many neo-pagan beliefs where one entity is exhibited as the male and female god and goddess then from there as many 'sub' deities?

As a Christian, my opinion is meaningless. It is God's word that matters. It is the Truth.

 

[hvp05]

I understand what the definition of the trinity is, but how is that any different from many neo-pagan beliefs where one entity is exhibited as the male and female god and goddess then from there as many 'sub' deities?

Many people will say there is no difference, because the Judeo-Christian system was built on the backs of earlier deities and 'borrowed' things from them. The trinity godhead is simply a modified version of what previous theists put their faith in.

Christians, naturally will scoff and say there is no relation; human nature played no part in the formation of these beliefs because they were inspired. Depends on which team makes more sense relative to history, etc.

You may get the biblical literalists to say the beliefs of the RC Church are implicitly polytheistic since, by the literalists claims, RCs see Mary and the saints as sort of "sub-gods" who can help one get into heaven.

Either way, good luck getting a straight answer that isn't all Bible C&P.

 

[UNA]

Many people will say there is no difference, because the Judeo-Christian system was built on the backs of earlier deities and 'borrowed' things from them. The trinity godhead is simply a modified version of what previous theists put their faith in.

I know, I just wanted his to tell me in his own words thus proving an understanding. But I got the ole cop out; "because god said so". Too bad, I really do like a good theological debate/discussion...there is a lot can ALL learn about our own spirituality just be listening to other people beliefs and not throwing them away. It's what out nation was founded on; freedom to debate. Thomas Jefferson himself said it's the best way to learn; truely learn something.

People like this just get bent out of shape everytime you equate Christmas to Yule or Easter to ostara. Not my fault early Christians drew in pagans by using their ritual calendar (among many many other things).

These are the same people who say Islam isn't a relate religion and Jews killed Jesus. :/

 

[ItalianScallion]

How is the trinity different from polytheistic religions?
And I thought the bible said something like "the path to heaven is through me [Jesus]". Does that mean if you don't believe you go to hell? OR that Jesus is the one that will judge people in the end.
not trying to start things; just like to understand people's beliefs!

An easily understood example would be a family of 3. Dad, Mom & child. They are 3 distinct, separate people but they carry the same last name (in most cases).

Another is a triangle. 3 distinct angles, and all part of the same triangle.

The main difference with other "belief systems" is that most acknowledge only one god as one entity. Christianity is one God revealed to us as 3 spiritual beings (persons). That is: all 3 separate distinct beings but all 3 are the same God: Father, Son (Jesus) & the Holy Spirit. They are eternal, spiritual beings in that they were not born or created and will never die.

Jesus is fully God and he will be the judge of all on the last day. He proved His claims to Deity by doing the many things He did for the 3 years He was on the earth (many of which humans cannot do).

Either way, good luck getting a straight answer that isn't all Bible C&P.

 

[hvp05]

I know, I just wanted his to tell me in his own words thus proving an understanding. But I got the ole cop out; "because god said so". Too bad, I really do like a good theological debate/discussion...there is a lot can ALL learn about our own spirituality just be listening to other people beliefs and not throwing them away.

I know 2A goes to church. I am sure while he is at church his pastor 'interprets' the Bible to some extent, and tells his own stories to help relate lessons from the Bible to the audience. If it's all sitting and reading what is already written, there would be no point in anyone getting up early on Sunday, changing out of their perfectly comfy pajamas and going to church.

:uh-oh:

 

[2ndAmendment]

I know, I just wanted his to tell me in his own words thus proving an understanding. But I got the ole cop out; "because god said so". Too bad, I really do like a good theological debate/discussion...there is a lot can ALL learn about our own spirituality just be listening to other people beliefs and not throwing them away. It's what out nation was founded on; freedom to debate. Thomas Jefferson himself said it's the best way to learn; truely learn something.

People like this just get bent out of shape everytime you equate Christmas to Yule or Easter to ostara. Not my fault early Christians drew in pagans by using their ritual calendar (among many many other things).

These are the same people who say Islam isn't a relate religion and Jews killed Jesus. :/

As a Christian, I am here to serve God. In that, I am open to be used by Him to win souls or any of His purposes. I have never read in the Bible, "Go and debate." To my knowledge, no one has ever been debated into the kingdom of God, so I am not interested in debate.

Politics is a place for debate. Christianity is the realm of faith.

 

[Radiant1]

I got the trinity and I can read the bible; I wanted and answer from someone here; in their own words.

I understand what the definition of the trinity is, but how is that any different from many neo-pagan beliefs where one entity is exhibited as the male and female god and goddess then from there as many 'sub' deities?

I don't have any problem discussing it with you, they are legitimate questions.

I'll TRY to keep this simple. In paganism there are various substances of gods/goddesses usually represented by the sun/moon or destroyer/creator, and they are of different natures. For example, one god may have power, another goddess wisdom. Or another example, Zeus was more or less King of all the gods/goddesses and reigned over "heaven", but Zeus did not have the same nature as the others and did not also reign over "hades". They all performed different duties if you will.

In Christianity, God is one substance three persons, and all of the same nature. For example, all three (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) have power and wisdom equally. All three reign over the universe equally. Therein lay the difference.

Many people will say there is no difference, because the Judeo-Christian system was built on the backs of earlier deities and 'borrowed' things from them. The trinity godhead is simply a modified version of what previous theists put their faith in.

Christians, naturally will scoff and say there is no relation; human nature played no part in the formation of these beliefs because they were inspired. Depends on which team makes more sense relative to history, etc.

Kind of, but not really. There is a relation, but Christianity wasn't "built on the backs of earlier dieties". Ok, well maybe you could say that, but not in the way you mean it.

Christians say that previous faith practices were the preparation of mankind for God's long and gradual revelation culmination in the person of Jesus Christ. Therefore, there are partial truths that can be found in previous practices, just not the fullness of it. Think of it as a gradual unfolding, specifically using the people of Isreal who learned that He is personal to them, and ultimately each one of us.

The entire history of man is one of man's relationship with and understanding of God as He truly is.

You may get the biblical literalists to say the beliefs of the RC Church are implicitly polytheistic since, by the literalists claims, RCs see Mary and the saints as sort of "sub-gods" who can help one get into heaven.

It's a bit of a misnomer, but Christianity is what I affectionately call the paganization of Judaism. That is what makes it universal. That is what makes it for all mankind, not just one race of people. That is what makes it God's final revelation of Himself to mankind. God has put together cohesively all that He has revealed before.

Either way, good luck getting a straight answer that isn't all Bible C&P.

That's the way I see it when taking Christianity from an anthropological point of view. I hope that was straight enough.

 

[ItalianScallion]

If it's all sitting and reading what is already written, there would be no point in anyone getting up early on Sunday, changing out of their perfectly comfy pajamas and going to church.

You still wear jammies?? I hope you're a female...

I have never read in the Bible, "Go and debate." To my knowledge, no one has ever been debated into the kingdom of God, so I am not interested in debate.

Maybe not, but debates DO happen: Acts 9v29, 15v2, 18v28, Acts 23v9 & Jude 3.

 

[Starman3000m]

FIXED

It's a bit of a misnomer, but Roman Catholicism is what I affectionately call the paganization of Judaism. That is what makes it universal. That is what makes it for all mankind, not just one race of people. That is what makes it God's final revelation of Himself to mankind. God has put together cohesively all that He has revealed before.

That's the way I see it when taking Christianity from an anthropological point of view. I hope that was straight enough.

Um... There is no "paganization of Judaism" in True Christianity.

The New Testament Jesus Christ is the fulfillment and appearance of the Jewish Moshiach. It's just that Orthodox Judaism wanted a military leader, like David, to take charge and literally defeat the enemies of Israel. They still await that leader today.

BTW: Orthodox Judaism awaits two Moshiachs: Moshiach ben Yosef (son of Joseph) and Moshiach ben David. Christ is the manifestation of both but first had to come to be the Lamb of God whose shed Blood atones for the sins of mankind (those who place faith in Him alone) as Moshiach ben Yosef.

The Second Advent - Christ will return as Judaism's Moshiach ben David and set up Peace on earth during His Millenial Reign from Jerusalem and this will happen after antichrist has first had his period of time to wreak havoc in the world.

According to the Holy Bible, things will get worse before they get better for this world. However, we have no need to fear. Placing faith in Christ today assures an individual that no matter what happens, he/she will receive God's Promise of Forgiveness and Eternal Salvation.

 

[hvp05]

You still wear jammies?? I hope you're a female...

In my defense, they are flannel. It's irresistible. :shrug:




The fluffy bunny slippers probably don't help though.

 

[Radiant1]

FIXED



Um... There is no "paganization of Judaism" in True Christianity.

Then I suggest you start eating kosher.