What if Obama wins?

[johnjrval424]

I've heard people say this, and they were dead serious. Although, it is the Eastern Shore, and there are some pretty 'interesting' people here.

Careful...

 

[Cowgirl]

Careful...

You from here? I bet you'd say the same thing....

 

[johnjrval424]

You from here? I bet you'd say the same thing....

Yep - and there are areas that I personally questioned the breeding but it is where my soul still resides. I grew up in St. Michaels and went down there for the first time in 20 years about a month ago. I was surprised at how much was still like it was back then. There was some building on the town fringes but it was like stepping back in time - even riding through the parking lot of my high school!

 

[Cowgirl]

Yep - and there are areas that I personally questioned the breeding but it is where my soul still resides. I grew up in St. Michaels and went down there for the first time in 20 years about a month ago. I was surprised at how much was still like it was back then. There was some building on the town fringes but it was like stepping back in time - even riding through the parking lot of my high school!

St. Michaels doesn't count. It's filling up with rich people.

 

[johnjrval424]

St. Michaels doesn't count. It's filling up with rich people.

Which would explain why I'm not there anymore.

And you are where?

 

[Cowgirl]

Which would explain why I'm not there anymore.

And you are where?

I sent you a PM.

 

[johnjrval424]

I've heard people say this, and they were dead serious. Although, it is the Eastern Shore, and there are some pretty 'interesting' people here.

Actually, Southern Maryland is very similar to the eastern shore except that it is much hillier here (is that a word?). The beliefs and practices are very close to each other so I can understand someone over there would say something like that because that's how they are...

 

[Cowgirl]

Actually, Southern Maryland is very similar to the eastern shore except that it is much hillier here (is that a word?). The beliefs and practices are very close to each other so I can understand someone over there would say something like that because that's how they are...

I love Southern MD, but it's just growing too much for me. I love how rural it is here, for the most part. Parts of me wish there was a little bit more culture. But I do like it here.

 

[purplepassion]

well shouldn't people be lining up to take shots at W using that logic? I mean look at the crisis we are in now....

You would think so wouldn't you?! Maybe it's because he doesn't have too much longer in office.

I keep seeing Obama as the anti-Christ. Book of Revelations talks of a man being elected after certain things have happened such as enemies becoming friends (Russia & US) and the change over of one currancy (which has happened in Europe). Everyone is taken by him and willing to follow his instructions. And then all hell breaks loose.

 

[johnjrval424]

You would think so wouldn't you?! Maybe it's because he doesn't have too much longer in office.

I keep seeing Obama as the anti-Christ. Book of Revelations talks of a man being elected after certain things have happened such as enemies becoming friends (Russia & US) and the change over of one currancy (which has happened in Europe). Everyone is taken by him and willing to follow his instructions. And then all hell breaks loose.

Well, the world is supposed to end in 2012 so that would be the end of his term. Makes sense...he's going to take us down in flames.

 

[tiny_dancer33]

Why would he create a racial divide? Solely because he's not the same race as the majority of the country?

And don't tell me about blah blah secret Muslim omgz. Is there a valid reason that he would create a racial divide if he were head of state? Because...he's half a different race than the presidents we've had so far? If that's so, why wouldn't Palin create gender riots if elected to vice president?

 

[johnjrval424]

Why would he create a racial divide? Solely because he's not the same race as the majority of the country?

And don't tell me about blah blah secret Muslim omgz. Is there a valid reason that he would create a racial divide if he were head of state? Because...he's half a different race than the presidents we've had so far? If that's so, why wouldn't Palin create gender riots if elected to vice president?

Are these rhetorical questions or do you really wants answers?

 

[tiny_dancer33]

Are these rhetorical questions or do you really wants answers?

I really do. Sorry, I was kind of all over the place - to this one specifically: Is there a reason he would create a racial divide if elected besides the fact that he is only half the same race as the majority of this country? If the answer to the first question is no, does that mean you believe that it would be bad for America to ever have a president that is not the same race as the majority of the country because it would automatically create racial strife? (Oh, and why doesn't the same apply for Palin with gender?)

(Not a trick question, I won't cry racist on you, I really want to know if you think America isn't ready for a non-majority ethnicity in the White House.)

 

[hotmomma]

So can we assume you will be casting your vote for him?

no. I am not voting for him

 

[D1VA]

I really do. Sorry, I was kind of all over the place - to this one specifically: Is there a reason he would create a racial divide if elected besides the fact that he is only half the same race as the majority of this country? If the answer to the first question is no, does that mean you believe that it would be bad for America to ever have a president that is not the same race as the majority of the country because it would automatically create racial strife? (Oh, and why doesn't the same apply for Palin with gender?)

(Not a trick question, I won't cry racist on you, I really want to know if you think America isn't ready for a non-majority ethnicity in the White House.)

GREAT POINT!
Time for a change! Funny how people forget 1/2 of his race!

 

[johnjrval424]

I really do. Sorry, I was kind of all over the place - to this one specifically: Is there a reason he would create a racial divide if elected besides the fact that he is only half the same race as the majority of this country? If the answer to the first question is no, does that mean you believe that it would be bad for America to ever have a president that is not the same race as the majority of the country because it would automatically create racial strife? (Oh, and why doesn't the same apply for Palin with gender?)

(Not a trick question, I won't cry racist on you, I really want to know if you think America isn't ready for a non-majority ethnicity in the White House.)

As I mentioned in my post before, it's not the fact that he is bi-racial that bothers me. What bothers me are the associations he has had with people who promote "Black is Better" and just want to create a rising up, if you will, of their race at the expense of everyone else. This type of situation has been going on now for quite a few years in Prince George's County and they've pretty much gotten their way. That's why that county has the highest crime rate, the schools are on the verge of being taken over by the State and it also has the highest foreclosure rate. Let's take those same principles and apply them nationwide, shall we? Or how about just statewide? After all, O'Malley is democrat and would be doing whatever Obama told him to do because O'Malley is a follower, not a leader.

As I mentioned in my previous post, if Colin Powell (who looks bi-racial) was running for President, I would vote him in right now. But the big difference between him and Obama is experience - well, and polish and substance and vocabulary and dialect and...

 

[tiny_dancer33]

As I mentioned in my post before, it's not the fact that he is bi-racial that bothers me. What bothers me are the associations he has had with people who promote "Black is Better" and just want to create a rising up, if you will, of their race at the expense of everyone else. This type of situation has been going on now for quite a few years in Prince George's County and they've pretty much gotten their way. That's why that county has the highest crime rate, the schools are on the verge of being taken over by the State and it also has the highest foreclosure rate. Let's take those same principles and apply them nationwide, shall we? Or how about just statewide? After all, O'Malley is democrat and would be doing whatever Obama told him to do because O'Malley is a follower, not a leader.

As I mentioned in my previous post, if Colin Powell (who looks bi-racial) was running for President, I would vote him in right now. But the big difference between him and Obama is experience - well, and polish and substance and vocabulary and dialect and...

No, the differences between Powell and Obama are experience and politics. Period. I don't know what you mean by "vocabulary" and "dialect." I think Obama's associations with radicals are tenuous and vague enough that people won't be troubled by this on a nationwide scale. I don't want to get into a discussion about how valid the associations are or their extent, etc. etc. I think those associations are the excuses people tend to gravitate towards to front for the fact that they're just uncomfortable with a non-majority ethnicity taking the position of the head honcho.

I also am troubled by your statement that you think the crime, poor schools, and foreclosure rates of Prince George's are owed to the principle that "Black is better." Blacks and Asians are a majority in PG County. But the fact that those ethnic groups are a majority does not mean they are supreme. Your statement basically implies that PG does not function well because it is predominantly black. And that is a false statement.

I'm not going to go into PG too much because that's not what we're discussing, but the problems with the schools in PG have to do with overcrowding, not race. The system is massive and there's not enough money to handle all of it at once, and the problems stack up as more people move in, and so on and so forth. The problems with crime in PG have to do with the fact that it is the suburb directly outside DC, a major urban center, and again with the large population. With a large population comes more crime. Fact of life. New York City, Chicago, LA, New Haven.

PG's high foreclosure rate, again, has to do with over-quick growth in the area. There was a rush of building, a rush of buying, and now the same panic of selling and paying that people are experiencing everywhere. My aunt's predominantly white Houston suburb is going through the exact same thing as Prince George's. Please don't try to tell me that a "rising up" of the black race has anything to do with the problems in PG. That's just insulting.

I think what the reality is is that in PG, Montgomery, and other significantly black and wealthy districts - blacks aren't "rising up against whites" or "becoming more powerful than other races" - it's that they're coming up to the same level as the majority race has been for a long time, and that troubles some people, who try to explain their discomfort as worry about the legitimately destructive "Black is better" crowd - which, in reality, has almost no presence in PG because it doesn't need to have one. People migrate to radical ideas when their situations aren't working out. And the blacks in PG (I'm referring to the wealthier black sector, because despite the horror stories about crime you hear on the news, the wealthier educated black sector is dominant in PG) don't need it.

My follow-up question grows from that - do you think that one race "rising up," to use your expression - means that other races must fall or stay put? And when I say, rising up, I don't mean exerting supremacy. I just mean coming into the same positions that the majority race has held for years, coming to the same economic positions and political offices. Are you saying that Obama - or, not even Obama, since you consider him to have radical tendencies, let's just say a hypothetical black or half-black politician - coming to the office of president would automatically mean the detriment of European-Americans?

 

[johnjrval424]

No, the differences between Powell and Obama are experience and politics. Period. I don't know what you mean by "vocabulary" and "dialect." I think Obama's associations with radicals are tenuous and vague enough that people won't be troubled by this on a nationwide scale. I don't want to get into a discussion about how valid the associations are or their extent, etc. etc. I think those associations are the excuses people tend to gravitate towards to front for the fact that they're just uncomfortable with a non-majority ethnicity taking the position of the head honcho.

Tenuous and vague? Don't think so. Only when the chips were down did he come out and ATTEMPT, attempt, attempt to distance himself from the radicals and did it with such insincerity that no one really believed him.

I also am troubled by your statement that you think the crime, poor schools, and foreclosure rates of Prince George's are owed to the principle that "Black is better." Blacks and Asians are a majority in PG County. But the fact that those ethnic groups are a majority does not mean they are supreme. Your statement basically implies that PG does not function well because it is predominantly black. And that is a false statement.

Okay, I'm still trying to sort that one out.

I'm not going to go into PG too much because that's not what we're discussing, but the problems with the schools in PG have to do with overcrowding, not race. The system is massive and there's not enough money to handle all of it at once, and the problems stack up as more people move in, and so on and so forth. The problems with crime in PG have to do with the fact that it is the suburb directly outside DC, a major urban center, and again with the large population. With a large population comes more crime. Fact of life. New York City, Chicago, LA, New Haven.

With the property tax rate in PG and all the money that the State throws at it, schools should be superior to every other county. PG gets more money than any other county in the State of Maryland and still can't get schools to perform because they waste more than they spend. Don't get me started on PG County Schools - husband just retired from there after 31 years and couldn't get out of the parking lot fast enough.

PG's high foreclosure rate, again, has to do with over-quick growth in the area. There was a rush of building, a rush of buying, and now the same panic of selling and paying that people are experiencing everywhere. My aunt's predominantly white Houston suburb is going through the exact same thing as Prince George's. Please don't try to tell me that a "rising up" of the black race has anything to do with the problems in PG. That's just insulting.

And why is there "over-quick growth" in PG County? Because the powers that be kept approving it and approving it and approving it in order to get those almighty tax dollars. I used to live in the City of Bowie so I'm well aware of the tax situation and governance of PG County, hence my move to Calvert. To quote your next paragraph, PG County, in your eyes, is supposed to be the wealthiest (or at least have more wealthy blacks per capita) so why then are the foreclosures happening at an astonishing rate?

I think what the reality is is that in PG, Montgomery, and other significantly black and wealthy districts - blacks aren't "rising up against whites" or "becoming more powerful than other races" - it's that they're coming up to the same level as the majority race has been for a long time, and that troubles some people, who try to explain their discomfort as worry about the legitimately destructive "Black is better" crowd - which, in reality, has almost no presence in PG because it doesn't need to have one. People migrate to radical ideas when their situations aren't working out. And the blacks in PG (I'm referring to the wealthier black sector, because despite the horror stories about crime you hear on the news, the wealthier educated black sector is dominant in PG) don't need it.

BS - ask your poor black resident why he's voting for Obama. Don't be surprised at the answer and those are the votes are going to get him into office. It has nothing to do with policy or track record. You can't say that about white people because 1/2 of them are also voting for Obama. Just goes to show you that we will cross party and color lines when we feel strongly about something.

My follow-up question grows from that - do you think that one race "rising up," to use your expression - means that other races must fall or stay put? And when I say, rising up, I don't mean exerting supremacy. I just mean coming into the same positions that the majority race has held for years, coming to the same economic positions and political offices. Are you saying that Obama - or, not even Obama, since you consider him to have radical tendencies, let's just say a hypothetical black or half-black politician - coming to the office of president would automatically mean the detriment of European-Americans?

I think my answers above speak for themselves.

 

[tiny_dancer33]

Okay, I'm still trying to sort that one out.

The difference should be apparent. One is a statement of fact - P.G. County is predominantly inhabited by ethnic/racial minorities. The second is a misguided (in my view) opinion - that P.G. County suffers as it does because it is predominantly inhabited by minorities. As in, minorities are inherently incapable of successful governance. And I take offense to that.

Trust me, I know about P.G. public schools. First hand experience, parents had firsthand experience, grandparents had both first hand experience and stuck around to try to teach. Yeah, the system gets a lot of money, wastes more than it spends, corruption in the administration for sure. I'm not arguing with these points. But I am arguing with the point that these things happen because the county is predominantly black.

o quote your next paragraph, PG County, in your eyes, is supposed to be the wealthiest (or at least have more wealthy blacks per capita) so why then are the foreclosures happening at an astonishing rate?

There are foreclosures happening in middle class and upper class communities alike all over the place. It's not exclusive to PG, it just hasn't hit Calvert as hard because a lot of the property in Calvert isn't brand new or part of huge building surges (at least, not until recent years). Are you implying (I ask honestly) that blacks aren't capable of handling home ownership or new wealth? Or are you somehow attempting to connect black radicalism with the housing market crash? I'm getting confused here.

BS - ask your poor black resident why he's voting for Obama. Don't be surprised at the answer and those are the votes are going to get him into office. It has nothing to do with policy or track record.

Spin that around. Ask someone why they're not voting for Obama. Around here most of the answers I get are purely based on fear of racial or religious differences. Very rarely do I get anything about policy, economic beliefs. Is that somehow better?

As someone both black and white, I'm also saddened by your generalizations about voting trends and the idea that because some blacks will be voting for Obama because he identifies with their race, all of us are. Yeah, most blacks are probably voting for Obama, but most of them would probably also have voted for H. Clinton, or for Edwards, or for Gravel, as they tend to vote Democratic as a group. One of my African-American cousins, however, is disgusted by Palin and mightily opposed to Obama, and will be writing in Ron Paul, while most of my European-American relatives will be supporting Obama unfailingly. Can't generalize.

I think my answers above speak for themselves.

Yeah, sadly, I think they do. They tell me yes, you pretty much think that a minority race coming to prominence or popularity means the detriment of the country and that the majority race can never be represented by them. By that logic, all blacks would have seceded from the Union for not feeling represented by white presidents. Which, by the way, hasn't happened, which should give you an idea of the true nature of things, which is that competence in politics and governance and leadership is never based on race. Sorry you feel differently.

 

[BOP]

GREAT POINT!
Time for a change! Funny how people forget 1/2 of his race!

Yeah, especially the blacks, who historically are hard on especially children of mixed race.