What Is Mormonism? A Baptist Answer

fredcaudle

New Member
its a more realistic answer than you are giving.

what does your religious message do for those getting killed in schools- nothin'


also, those religious folks have also been some of the most vocal ones holding back human rights. ever hear of the KKK- christain based, how about hitler- used god to justify his beliefs, and all those bible thumpers that quote passages to justify their fear and hate of the 'other', and how many religions say all men are equal, but in reality dont afford women the same rights?

yeah, i'll take enlightenment over blindly following anyday
hopeless... you have nothing of wisdom to share... only why you don't believe me or religions. Interesting. Your classes of teaching must be refreshing... Here is it kids...

I here... so therefore I exist... maybe someday we will be enlightened.

Play time... we learned all there is.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
all good arguments against religion I suppose... do not non-religious people have anything to offer us as pearls of wisdom... or do all you know is how to argue against me?

Would love to see some pearls of wisdom without any reference to what I or others believe... is it possible to actually happen?????

Actually it's not the Pearls of Wisdom.. but the "Pearls of Great Price".. If you were baptist you;d know that..
 

fredcaudle

New Member
Actually it's not the Pearls of Wisdom.. but the "Pearls of Great Price".. If you were baptist you;d know that..
so there we have it... all you know how to do is say what I should or should not believe or know according to my faith, but nothing to offer from your vantage point. Wow...

Do non-religious people have any viewpoints of originality or is the viewpoint just arguing against religion??
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
so there we have it... all you know how to do is say what I should or should not believe or know according to my faith, but nothing to offer from your vantage point. Wow...

Do non-religious people have any viewpoints of originality or is the viewpoint just arguing against religion??

I'm sorry.. but isn't this thread ALL about a BAPTIST writing and telling us what MORMONISM is?? WHY!??
 

fredcaudle

New Member
I'm sorry.. but isn't this thread ALL about a BAPTIST writing and telling us what MORMONISM is?? WHY!??
yes.. good way to avoid sharing any pearls. How about opening another thread then?

After all, if we are all wrong (religious people I mean)... then you must have at least one answer out there to help kids, oppressed, stopping the violence... anything? ANYTHING? Or is your training simply in arguing religion?
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
yes.. good way to avoid sharing any pearls. How about opening another thread then?

After all, if we are all wrong (religious people I mean)... then you must have at least one answer out there to help kids, oppressed, stopping the violence... anything? ANYTHING? Or is your training simply in arguing religion?
You still haven't asnwered the Baptist / mormon question.. or the Baptist/ Seventh Day question of the Baptist/ Scientology question..

Why do they go out of their way to discredit OTHER religions, when, if the microscope is turned on their own religion, it also can easily be discredited?? Does this make them feel better about themselves??

Superior in some way??

Smarter??
 

fredcaudle

New Member
You still haven't asnwered the Baptist / mormon question.. or the Baptist/ Seventh Day question of the Baptist/ Scientology question..

Why do they go out of their way to discredit OTHER religions, when, if the microscope is turned on their own religion, it also can easily be discredited?? Does this make them feel better about themselves??

Superior in some way??

Smarter??
Still no answers... still waiting to see if those opposed to religion have any intelligent answers to give, or is it just that you have arguments against religions??????? Really, you'alls conventions must really be exciting, I mean... wow... nothing to share or talk about except arguing against the "established" religions.

Answers (answered before, time and time again)
Baptist have different doctrine... ie. we are different than who you listed.
Discredit to you... to us keeping our doctrine clear and not mingled with what we don't believe.
We feel better in Christ Jesus, not in man or manmade religion.
In Christ we can do all things.... is that superior? or just confident?
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Still no answers... still waiting to see if those opposed to religion have any intelligent answers to give, or is it just that you have arguments against religions??????? Really, you'alls conventions must really be exciting, I mean... wow... nothing to share or talk about except arguing against the "established" religions.

Answers (answered before, time and time again)
Baptist have different doctrine... ie. we are different than who you listed.
Discredit to you... to us keeping our doctrine clear and not mingled with what we don't believe.
We feel better in Christ Jesus, not in man or manmade religion.
In Christ we can do all things.... is that superior? or just confident?

yeah, but I don't have to spend 10% of my pay to feel better about my afterlife..

So in the end all this Baptist Mormon stuff is just a hidden agenda. and all in all just camouflaged hate speech??
 

tommyjones

New Member
Still no answers... still waiting to see if those opposed to religion have any intelligent answers to give, or is it just that you have arguments against religions??????? Really, you'alls conventions must really be exciting, I mean... wow... nothing to share or talk about except arguing against the "established" religions.
you still dont get that aethism isn't a religion, at least not like you are familar.

i have given you plenty of answers but all i get from you is
"so what does that do for the kids that get killed in school shootings"

when i point that back at ya all i get is
"dont bring my religion into it"
 

Marie

New Member
The short answer is they are an occult. The Jesus they speak of is not the same jesus of the bilbe. Unless you call someone who interprets scripture a probhet there are no modern day prophets either.
Keep in mind what scripture says and how Joseph Smith and his book are not part of the cannons of scripture. Just another guy unwilling to serve the one true God, so he made up one he could live with. Which Violates the 10 commandements too!
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

Amazing the depravity of the human heart!

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Be coming!" And the one hearing, let him say, "Be coming!" And the one thirsting, let him come. The one desiring, let him take [the] water of life without cost.
Rev 22:18 _I_ testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if anyone adds to them, God [is prepared] to add to him the {seven} plagues, the ones having been written in this scroll.
Rev 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, may God take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, the [things] having been written in this scroll.
 

Marie

New Member
Mormonism

.

MAJOR BELIEFS OF MORMONS

ONE TRUE CHURCH:
The Mormon church claims to be the only true church. In God’s supposed revelation to Joseph Smith, Jesus Christ told him to join no other church for "they were all wrong . . . their creeds were an abomination . . . those professors [members] were all corrupt" (The Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History —1:19). Mormons teach that after the New Testament all churches became heretical and no true saints existed until the "Church of the Latter-day Saints" was organized, hence their name. Non-Mormons are thus called "Gentiles." The new revelations given to Smith, the institution of the prophet and apostles in the church, the restoration of the divine priesthoods, and the temple ceremonies make the church authentic. True and full salvation or exaltation is found only in the LDS Church. Biblical Response: The true church of Jesus Christ has had an ongoing presence and witness in the world since Pentecost. Jesus Christ promised that His church, true baptized and regenerate believers, would not fail (Matt. 16:17– 18). The marks of a true church include faithfulness to the teaching of the first apostles (Acts 2:42)—not the creation of new doctrines.

AUTHORITY OF THE PROPHET:
The president or prophet of the Church is thought to be the sole spokesman and revelator of God. Joseph Smith was the initial prophet, but each successive president holds that position. Through him God’s will can be made known to the church. All revelations are made scripture and no Mormon can attain godhood without accepting Joseph Smith as a true prophet. The Mormon scriptures state that Latter-day Saints "shalt give heed unto all his [the prophet’s] words andcommandments . . . For his word ye shall receive as if from mine [God’s] own mouth" (Doctrine and Covenants 21:4–5).

Biblical Response: Old and New Testament prophets were God’s spokesmen. Their words were always consistent with the Bible and pointed to God’s Son, Jesus Christ. A test of genuineness for prophets was that any prediction they proclaimed would come true (Deut. 18:20–22). For example, Joseph Smith predicted that the temple of the church would be built in Independence, Mo., within his lifetime (Doctrine and Covenants 84:2–5). No temple has yet been built there. New Testament prophets spoke, along with teachers, pastors, and evangelists, in evangelizing with and edifying the church (Eph. 4:11–13).

MORMON SCRIPTURE:
Mormons accept four books as scripture and the word of God. The King James Version of the Bible is one of them, but only "as far as it is translated correctly" —seemingly allowing for possible questions about its authority. Joseph Smith made over 600 corrections to its text. Other "standard works" are the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. The Bible is missing "plain and precious parts" according to the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 13:26) which the other three volumes complete. The Book of Mormon has the "fullness of the gospel" and tells the story of a supposed migration of Israelites in 600 B.C. to the American continent. These Israelites subsequently lapsed into apostasy although their story was preserved on golden plates written in Reformed Egyptian. Joseph Smith, it is said, translated the plates by the "gift and power of God" (Doctrine and Covenants 135:3). Reformed Egyptian does not exist as a language. The golden plates were returned to the angel Moroni after they were transcribed and Moroni returned them to heaven. The Book of Mormon does not contain explicit Mormon doctrine. Doctrine and Covenants contains the revelations of the Mormon prophets—138 in number along with two "declarations." Here most of Mormon doctrine can be found including the priesthood, baptism for the dead, godhood, and polygamy. The Pearl of Great Price contains Smith’s religious history, the Articles of Faith, the Book of Abraham, and the Book of Moses. Biblical Response: The Bible explicitly warns against adding to or detracting from its teaching (Rev. 22:18; Deut. 4:2). The New Testament contains the inspired and totally accurate witness of contemporary disciples and followers of Jesus. It alone claims to be fully inspired of God and usable for the establishment of doctrine (2 Tim. 3:15–17; 2 Pet. 1:19–21).

ESTABLISHMENT OF TEMPLES:
The first Mormon temple was constructed in Kirtland, Ohio, in 1836. Subsequently, a temple was constructed in Nauvoo, Ill., in 1846. Presently there are at least 53 operating temples throughout the world including the one finished in Salt Lake City in 1893. The purpose and function of temples is for the practice of eternal ordinances including primarily baptism for the dead, endowments, and celestial marriages. Baptism in the Mormon church, for both the living and the dead, is essential for the fullness of salvation. The dead often are baptized by proxy which affords them after death the opportunity to become Mormons. Celestial marriage for "time and eternity" is also a temple ordinance. It is necessary for godhood and seals the marriage forever. Temples form an essential part of Mormon salvation. Only Mormons in possession of a "temple recommend" by their bishop may enter a temple.

Biblical Response: The Temple of the Old Testament was a place of symbolic sacrifice forefiguring the sacrifice of Christ. Worship in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem was a practice of early Jewish believers (Acts 2:46). Otherwise there is no mention of any such practice in the New Testament. Never was the Jewish temple used for baptism for the dead, marriage, or other secret ceremonies. It was the place in the Old Testament where the glory of God occasionally dwelt. Today the individual believer is God’s dwelling place and not a physical building (1 Cor. 3:16).

GOD IS AN EXALTED MAN:
Elohim, the god of this universe, was previously a man in a prior existence. As a result of having kept the requirements of Mormonism, he was exalted to godhood and inherited his own universe. God is confined to a "body of flesh and bones" (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22) and yet is thought to be omniscient and omnipotent. He obviously cannot be omnipresent. There are an nfinite number of gods with their own worlds—these too were previously men. The Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ, and "Heavenly Father" comprise three separate and distinct gods. Heavenly Father sires spiritual children in heaven destined for human life on earth. All humans, as well as Jesus Christ and Lucifer, are god’s heavenly children. (See Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; God, Jesus, and the Spirit thus had beginnings.)

Biblical Response: God is Spirit and is not confined to a physical body (John 4:24). Jesus Christ was incarnated through a miraculous and non-physical conception through the Virgin Mary. He was fully God from the beginning (John 1:1). Together with the person of the Holy Spirit they form the triune (three-in-one) eternal God. JESUS IS GOD’S "SON": Jesus was Heavenly Father’s firstborn spirit child in heaven. He was begotten by God through Mary as in a "literal, full and complete sense" in the same "sense in which he is the son of Mary" (Bruce McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1993], 67). These two elements of Jesus being literally God’s son form his uniqueness in Mormon theology. In the Garden of Gethsemane as well as on the cross Jesus atoned for Adam’s sin and guaranteed all humankind resurrection and immortality. Jesus visited the Israelites or Indians of North America after his resurrection and established the true church among them. We are the spiritual, but literal, younger brothers and sisters of Christ. Some Mormon documents claim that Jesus was married at Cana in Galilee (Mark 2) and had children himself.

Biblical Response: Jesus is viewed as God, the Word or Son, eternally existent with the Father and worthy of identity as God (John 1:1–14). He was born of the Virgin Mary who had conceived him supernaturally by the Holy Spirit. He lived a perfect life, died on the cross for the sins of the world, and was raised from the dead. He will come again and reign as Lord of lords.
 

Marie

New Member
Mormonism Continued

HUMANS ARE GODS IN EMBRYO:
Every human being has the potential of becoming a god by keeping the requirements of Mormonism. A well-known statement within Mormonism is, "As man is god once was, as god is man may become." From a prior spirit existence in heaven, humans may be born on earth in order to exercise freedom to choose good or evil and to have a body for the resurrection. Basically humans are good, but they will be punished for their sin. But by keeping Mormon teaching and obeying the church and the Prophet, after the resurrection worthy Mormon males may pass the celestial guards, bring their wives with them, and achieve a status similar to Elohim—the god of this world. The consequences of their sin are erased by their allegiance to the tenets of Mormonism. In resurrection faithful Mormons receive exaltation to godhood and will exercise dominion over their world. Biblical Response: Human beings are God’s special creation. There is no evidence from Scripture of preexistence, rather God acknowledges that it was in the womb of our mothers that He formed us (Isaiah 44:2). A sinful nature is part of humanity’s experience. Liberation from the power and presence of sin is experienced as a result of faith in Christ. At that point God’s image is begun to be remade in every Christian. Although the believer is being transformed to Christlikeness, the Bible does not teach literal godhood as the inheritance of the saints (Rom. 8:29; Rev. 1:5– ).

MORMON PLAN OF SALVATION:
The Mormon plan of salvation is built on the idea that all people have eternal life, but only the most faithful Mormons have godhood or enter the celestial Kingdom. In order to obtain this ultimate step, Mormons must exercise faith in the God of Mormonism, its Christ, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; exercise repentance; and be baptized in the LDS Church. Additionally Mormons must keep the "Word of Wisdom" by abstaining from alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine; tithe to the church; attend weekly sacrament meetings; support the Mormon prophet; do temple works; and be active in their support of the church.

Biblical Response: Salvation, according to the Bible, is due to God’s grace and love. He provided Jesus as the sacrifice for the sins of the world. It is through faith in the crucified and risen Jesus that we may be saved. Works are excluded (John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9–13; Eph. 2:8–9).
 

fredcaudle

New Member
you still dont get that aethism isn't a religion, at least not like you are familar.

i have given you plenty of answers but all i get from you is
"so what does that do for the kids that get killed in school shootings"

when i point that back at ya all i get is
"dont bring my religion into it"
I got that a million messages ago.

You are skilled at arguing against religion, congratulations. You never once answered any question without first refering to mine or ending your statement with anti-religion. The idea you have is to keep me answering so you don't have to put your thoughts out there and let us take a whack at them. The oldest tactic in the book. I was asking you all those questions to show you would have no substance to come back with... and so far, it's working. Although I have to give credit to the "I exist, therefore I am" and "because I said so" responses. But all in all, at least other readers can see the many ways religious people answer questions. Doesn't mean they will agree, but at least they can see substance instead of what you bring to the table.
 

fredcaudle

New Member
yeah, but I don't have to spend 10% of my pay to feel better about my afterlife..

And so...? Thanks for sharing your lack of charity, but have no idea why you felt I needed to know that....

So in the end all this Baptist Mormon stuff is just a hidden agenda. and all in all just camouflaged hate speech??

shhhhhh... that was supposed to be a secret!!! Now, after 2,000 years we have to go out and find something new to be sneaky about.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Marie said:
...Biblical Response: Salvation, according to the Bible, is due to God’s grace and love. He provided Jesus as the sacrifice for the sins of the world. It is through faith in the crucified and risen Jesus that we may be saved. Works are excluded (John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9–13; Eph. 2:8–9).

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

"Then Jesus cried out, 'When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me.

I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."' (John 12:44-50) New International Version


"I Am The Way The Truth And The Life; No Man Can Come Unto The Father Except Through Me." (John 14:6)
 

tommyjones

New Member
The short answer is they are an occult. The Jesus they speak of is not the same jesus of the bilbe. Unless you call someone who interprets scripture a probhet there are no modern day prophets either.
Keep in mind what scripture says and how Joseph Smith and his book are not part of the cannons of scripture. Just another guy unwilling to serve the one true God, so he made up one he could live with. Which Violates the 10 commandements too!



since you obviously know, which is the true christian sect?
 

fredcaudle

New Member
since you obviously know, which is the true christian sect?
Those who have believed God and His Anointed Jesus Christ can know the "true Christian Sect" as your term here. Those who believe in no god or religion have no hope in understanding our hope, our conversation, or our "obviously known" that you put off as foolishness and hate.

If I reverse back your question to you... then by your own question you "obviously know..." more than this person. Your arrogance speaks loudly, for you obviously know we are wrong and you are right.

Could you tell us what is "right" in your opinion without refering to religion, god, or gods... just simply tell us by a non-religious answer why you must be right and all others wrong.... or at least tell us without any religion (for you have none according to you) why you are right and no one else is?

When a person puts their belief in writing, it always says this is WHAT THEY BELIEVE and you can go along with them, or disagree. When you disagree and want to say so, at least be somewhat intelligent enough to say so without using their material - be original and show us why you have the "pearl of wisdom" and we don't.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
yeah, but I don't have to spend 10% of my pay to feel better about my afterlife..

And so...? Thanks for sharing your lack of charity, but have no idea why you felt I needed to know that....

So in the end all this Baptist Mormon stuff is just a hidden agenda. and all in all just camouflaged hate speech??

shhhhhh... that was supposed to be a secret!!! Now, after 2,000 years we have to go out and find something new to be sneaky about.

Why be so selective in the "We're right, you're wrong" speeches and articles.. Why not point out the Jews.. and the Muslims.. and the Buddhists..

Hell save some time and just reprint the articles from Hitler and the Third Reich why the Baptists are so much better than the Jews.. You can save even more time by just doing a search and replace in Word, and in every speech Hitler gave just replace "Jew" with "Mormon" or "Adventist" or "Scientologist" or any other group your church has told you to hate.

The library of anti "other religion than ours" propaganda stinks to high heaven.. and is not a christianly or brotherly attitude towards others.. it's hate.

And the watchmen.. what are they?? Do they wear brownshirts??

Call it what you want so you can sleep better at night, but at the end of the day it's hate.
 

fredcaudle

New Member
Why be so selective in the "We're right, you're wrong" speeches and articles.. Why not point out the Jews.. and the Muslims.. and the Buddhists..

Hell save some time and just reprint the articles from Hitler and the Third Reich why the Baptists are so much better than the Jews.. You can save even more time by just doing a search and replace in Word, and in every speech Hitler gave just replace "Jew" with "Mormon" or "Adventist" or "Scientologist" or any other group your church has told you to hate.

The library of anti "other religion than ours" propaganda stinks to high heaven.. and is not a christianly or brotherly attitude towards others.. it's hate.

And the watchmen.. what are they?? Do they wear brownshirts??

Call it what you want so you can sleep better at night, but at the end of the day it's hate.
Why be so selective in the "We're right, you're wrong" speeches and articles.. Why not point out the Jews.. and the Muslims.. and the Buddhists..
Can't they not point themselves out? Why do they need me pointing them out. All the groups you listed do not claim to have like doctrine.

Hell save some time and just reprint the articles from Hitler and the Third Reich why the Baptists are so much better than the Jews.. You can save even more time by just doing a search and replace in Word, and in every speech Hitler gave just replace "Jew" with "Mormon" or "Adventist" or "Scientologist" or any other group your church has told you to hate.
Salvation came from the Jews... how then can Baptists be better? You don't know much of what you are speaking. I don't subscribe to Hitler, why quote him... do you?

The library of anti "other religion than ours" propaganda stinks to high heaven.. and is not a christianly or brotherly attitude towards others.. it's hate.
You have to be a Chrisian (Christ-follower) to even understand brotherly attitude. Hate comes from the world... you're spouting hate towards me, but you will say you're not. But you have admitantly said you are of the "world"...

And the watchmen.. what are they?? Do they wear brownshirts??
They are baptists. They write articles to defend the faith of the baptists. They wear suits or other appropriate clothing I suppose... what do you wear, and if you answer - could you tell me "what they wear" means anything?????? I have on jeans and a button up shirt currently... I feel so much smarter knowing what I wear, don't you?

Call it what you want so you can sleep better at night, but at the end of the day it's hate.
"It is better to hear the rebuke of of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of a fool" [Scripture, not my originality] Your song is getting old, my friend. Your song is stale, for you defend not what you believe - you are only able to attack that which you have no knowlege of.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
"It is better to hear the rebuke of of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of a fool" [Scripture, not my originality] Your song is getting old, my friend. Your song is stale, for you defend not what you believe - you are only able to attack that which you have no knowlege of.

I'm defending what OTHERS believe.. and don't think one church has the right attitude to be able to espouse hate for others becasue they are WRONG..

I'm not a mormon, I'm not jewish, I'm not Seventh Day, nor am I a Scientologist.. but even if i think they are WRONG I believe they have the right to go to any church they decide on. Just like I believe a Baptist should be allowed to go to their church, in peace, quiet and security.. without anyone going out of their way to discredit their beiliefs, or "picket" them because of their beliefs..

You have no idea what I believe or don't believe so don't pass judgement.. oh wait, you already do that to a good portion of the population without meeting them, why should I be different.

I don't go to ANY church, I don't believe in organized religion, but to take part in ACTIVELY trying to discredit people that don't believe what you believe?? Yeah, no chance of ever seeing me in that church..

I take it Westboro just took the teaching of the Baptist Church to the next level? Or do they just take what they are taught to the public?
 
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