What the Gospel of Judas really says

[wxtornado]

Bzzzz. Wrong.

You know, I am finding you quite tedious as am TJ and Xaquin44. If you can come up with some meaningful discussion, I may join in, but so far all you three have are the endless circles like buzzards hovering. Let me give you a :clue:. Christians are not the ones who are dead.

If you find at some point you get no more responses from me, it is because you are being ignored.

A simple "quit asking the hard questions" would have sufficed. Now if *you* have something worthwhile, offer it up for discussion. Otherwise, move along, cause yer blockin my view

 

[2ndAmendment]

A simple "quit asking the hard questions" would have sufficed. Now if *you* have something worthwhile, offer it up for discussion. Otherwise, move along, cause yer blockin my view

Your questions are not hard. They are the same mundane junk you come in here with periodically. And they have been answered adequately by several. You choose to ignore or not accept the answers. That is on you. I find your tactics quite boring.

If any one should move along, it is you. Of course, I probably would block your view IRL.

 

[wxtornado]

Your questions are not hard. They are the same mundane junk you come in here with periodically. And they have been answered adequately by several. You choose to ignore or not accept the answers. That is on you. I find your tactics quite boring.

If any one should move along, it is you. Of course, I probably would block your view IRL.

Thanks for answering on the other thread - I honestly haven't seen your answer to this specific question before. Feel free to link me to posts you have already answered if that's the case.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Thanks for answering on the other thread - I honestly haven't seen your answer to this specific question before. Feel free to link me to posts you have already answered if that's the case.

You are welcome.

It was easier to look up the scripture than to search for the post. Besides, the forums get archived every so often and old posts are no longer available for searches or display.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Wouldn't that directly contradict the "free will" aspect of christianity?

You better believe it!

Jesus didn't do anything against Judas' free will. God knows everything past, present & future, EVERYTHING. He saw that Jesus had to die for us even before anyone was created. He also saw that His crooked trial would be a "railroad" so all He needed was someone who would (under his own free will) betray Jesus. Judas was that man. God didn't make him do it, he did it on his own because he was greedy. We saw that in the Gospels where he was in charge of the money (of which some was always missing under Judas watch). God knowing something then allowing it to happen is, by no means, Him forcing them to do it against their will.

 

[wxtornado]

God knowing something then allowing it to happen is, by no means, Him forcing them to do it against their will.

I understand what you're saying, but it still doesn't make sense to me. Nobody is saying God forces anything, but how could I chooose A if he already saw me choose B? What choice to I have if the outcome is already known?

 

[ItalianScallion]

I understand what you're saying, but it still doesn't make sense to me. Nobody is saying God forces anything, but how could I chooose A if he already saw me choose B? What choice to I have if the outcome is already known?

It's simple. What God saw, WAS your choice. It doesn't change and, if it did, He would have known it. If God saw that you were going to go eat at Outback tomorrow night at 7pm, then that's what's going to happen. If you were going to change your mind when you got to the door, He'd know that also and would not force you to go in against your will. Your choice (will) is still your choice. As I said earlier, God doesn't force you to do anything. If we don't want to believe in Him, that's our choice and He'll allow it. I think some people confuse God's plan for our lives with free will. Even though He has a plan laid out for my life, I (as a Christian) STILL have the free will to follow it or not.

 

[Chain729]

These Gnostics equated Ialdabaoth with the Hebrew Yahweh, whom they saw as a jealous and wrathful deity and an opponent of the supreme God whom Jesus came to earth to reveal.

THAT I get a kick out of. Morons.

 

[wxtornado]

If God saw that you were going to go eat at Outback tomorrow night at 7pm, then that's what's going to happen.

Okay, let's say that He saw me go to Outback tomorrow night at 7pm. Done deal, he saw me do it, and that's that. Exaclty how am I not going to go to Outback then? Remember the given: he already saw me go there.

 

[Toxick]

Okay, let's say that He saw me go to Outback tomorrow night at 7pm. Done deal, he saw me do it, and that's that. Exaclty how am I not going to go to Outback then? Remember the given: he already saw me go there.

Unless He influences you to go to Outback or otherwise compels, manipulates, or forces you to go there, then it is (was?) still YOUR choice to go there of your own free will. He just knew ahead of time.

I do not believe that precognition negates free will.

If you see a ball falling, you know it's going to hit the ground. That doesn't mean you are forcing the ball earthward.

 

[wxtornado]

Unless He influences you to go to Outback or otherwise compels, manipulates, or forces you to go there, then it is (was?) still YOUR choice to go there of your own free will. He just knew ahead of time.

I do not believe that precognition negates free will.

If you see a ball falling, you know it's going to hit the ground. That doesn't mean you are forcing the ball earthward.

Again, I didn't say anything about "forcing". My question was, how can I not go to Outback?

 

[Toxick]

Again, I didn't say anything about "forcing".

You did ask about forcing. The entire premise of the dilemma you're presenting is that of free-will.


If you're not forced, you went freely. No?

My question was, how can I not go to Outback?

Knowing neither the full nature of time, nor precognition and how they interact with each other, I can't answer this. I'm only trying to address the free-will part.

Maybe in another time-line you didn't go to Outback..... and somewhere a tornado forms.

 

[Chain729]

Again, I didn't say anything about "forcing". My question was, how can I not go to Outback?

You're looking at it the wrong way. There's a difference between "knowing what you're going to choose" and "not having a choice." Understanding that, your above question becomes pointless.

 

[wxtornado]

You did ask about forcing. The entire premise of the dilemma you're presenting is that of free-will.


If you're not forced, you went freely. No?

In my worldview, yes. In yours, it's an impossibility.

 

[wxtornado]

You're looking at it the wrong way. There's a difference between "knowing what you're going to choose" and "not having a choice." Understanding that, your above question becomes pointless.

Okay, so answer me this - your God saw me go to Outback. I used my free-will and went to Asahi instead. What does that say about the omniscience of your God that saw me go to Outback before I was born?

 

[Chain729]

Okay, so answer me this - your God saw me go to Outback. I used my free-will and went to Asahi instead. What does that say about the omniscience of your God that saw me go to Outback before I was born?

It's a silly question. Providing that God is omniscient, it's impossible that He had false information. Stop trying to prove that their is no choice if you know what's going to happen. It's a poor argument at best- apples and oranges. If you know the equation and enough factors in the equation, you can predict anything. Since God knows both the equation and all factors in it- including how your mind works- He can predict what you will do. That's not the same as you not having a choice. What about that is impossible to comprehend?

 

[wxtornado]

It's a silly question. Providing that God is omniscient, it's impossible that He had false information. Stop trying to prove that their is no choice if you know what's going to happen. It's a poor argument at best- apples and oranges. If you know the equation and enough factors in the equation, you can predict anything. Since God knows both the equation and all factors in it- including how your mind works- He can predict what you will do. That's not the same as you not having a choice. What about that is impossible to comprehend?

It's impossible to comprehend, because it's impossible to comprehend! It's a logical fallacy in your worldview! I'll try to make it real simple for you, and I want to see if you can actually answer the question I'm asking:

Your God saw me go to Outback tomorrow. He saw me do this before I was even born.

Now, yes or no?

CAN
I
GO
TO
ASAHI
INSTEAD?

 

[Chain729]

It's impossible to comprehend, because it's impossible to comprehend! It's a logical fallacy in your worldview! I'll try to make it real simple for you, and I want to see if you can actually answer the question I'm asking:

Your God saw me go to Outback tomorrow. He saw me do this before I was even born.

Now, yes or no?

CAN
I
GO
TO
ASAHI
INSTEAD?

Fine, I'll play your stupid game. No. Why? Because with the factors present at the time, with your mind working the way it does, that's the choice that you'll make. Whether or not God knew that is irrelevant. Go back to my explanation of the equation, factors, and prediction. If that explanation didn't work, "science" wouldn't exist. There would be no order, only non-sensical chaos.

BTW, No question is going to negate the fact that knowing what you'll choose and you having a choice are two COMPLETELY different things.

 

[wxtornado]

Fine, I'll play your stupid game. No.

And that's all you had to say, sheesh! Was that so friggin hard for you? You didn't have to play "my stupd game" if you didn't want to.

 

[Chain729]

And that's all you had to say, sheesh! Was that so friggin hard for you? You didn't have to play "my stupd game" if you didn't want to.

So does this mean the question, for once in my life, wasn't loaded?