Which President is worse?

[BlueBird]

Why didn't they fly planes into Big Ben in England or into Toronto? There are plenty of "free" contries out there that they don't give two craps about.

Trust me, I was a Marine, in Afghanistan on D-day, cheering on that war. We were attacked and needed to strike back. That is fine. But now it is nothing less than nation building and continual war to fund the Military Industrial Complex.

Perhaps but we are the biggest target and they feel that we pose the biggest threat to their way of life. America is viewed as the bully leading the charge against them. Other countries have had their fair share of attacks against them....

I don't agree that's about funding the military industrial complex as you so put it. Especially with Obama in office. I think we're just stuck in a place that's very hard to get out of.

 

[jackers]

Perhaps but we are the biggest target and they feel that we pose the biggest threat to their way of life. America is viewed as the bully leading the charge against them. Other countries have had their fair share of attacks against them....

I don't agree that's about funding the military industrial complex as you so put it. Especially with Obama in office. I think we're just stuck in a place that's very hard to get out of.

Continued war requires continued funding. Without war, budgets get cut. We have been, like you said, the worlds bully for decades. We spend more on our military then the rest of the world combined. Our navy is 13-19 times the size of the next closest navy (depending on which study you read). We have over 1000 bases overseas. What drives all of that? The military industrial complex.

 

[BlueBird]

Continued war requires continued funding. Without war, budgets get cut. We have been, like you said, the worlds bully for decades. We spend more on our military then the rest of the world combined. Our navy is 13-19 times the size of the next closest navy (depending on which study you read). We have over 1000 bases overseas. What drives all of that? The military industrial complex.

Our military has been doing nothing but shrinking since Reagan left office. We have many enemies which is why we exist. I say we because I'm a retired veteran with 22 years of service....

We are over extended right now and still shrinking. What drives the size of our military? The the threats against our national security do and currently there are many. You imply that there's a big conspiracy fueling the requirement to have ships, soldiers, marines and airman deployed and in uniform and that's just not the case.

 

[BlueBird]

I'm curious. What do you propose we do?

 

[jackers]

I'm curious. What do you propose we do?

I think it is totally the case. Our military needs drastic cuts. USSR thought they could maintain a military empire as well and you saw what happened with them. They over extended, their monitary system collapsed, and the union broke up.

What is more important, having the largest military empire to ever walk the earth or the collapse of our economy? Something has to give. Government spending needs cut across the board with no sacred cows.

I was a Marine for almost a decade, I can relate with the desire to keep our military force intact. Unfortunately, we as a country just can't sustain that.

 

[Larry Gude]

You are a socialist.

Most of us are to some extent and that is the basis for political argument; to what degree?

I am for less. Some are for more. Some who claim to be for less are for more when it matters. I'd be all too happy to find someone who is for more and turns out to do less.

 

[BlueBird]

I think it is totally the case. Our military needs drastic cuts. USSR thought they could maintain a military empire as well and you saw what happened with them. They over extended, their monitary system collapsed, and the union broke up.

What is more important, having the largest military empire to ever walk the earth or the collapse of our economy? Something has to give. Government spending needs cut across the board with no sacred cows.

I was a Marine for almost a decade, I can relate with the desire to keep our military force intact. Unfortunately, we as a country just can't sustain that.

Unfortunately if we cut the military much more we won't need to worry about our huge budget deficits because we'll just cease to exist as a nation. There are just too many enemies of the state out there waiting to destroy our empire.

We need to have drastic cuts across the board all right but what's really going to save us is the privatization of all these huge Government programs and putting American's back to work for privately funded companies who all pay taxes. Take all the companies that out sourced overseas and bring them back by offering them huge incentives which make it profitable to do business here and we grow exponentially.

 

[jackers]

Unfortunately if we cut the military much more we won't need to worry about our huge budget deficits because we'll just cease to exist as a nation. There are just too many enemies of the state out there waiting to destroy our empire.

We need to have drastic cuts across the board all right but what's really going to save us is the privatization of all these huge Government programs and putting American's back to work for privately funded companies who all pay taxes. Take all the companies that out sourced overseas and bring them back by offering them huge incentives which make it profitable to do business here and we grow exponentially.

If our military is bigger than all the worlds military combined then we have plenty of room for MAJOR cuts. If you don't see that (especially after 20+ years in the military) then you are being either disingenuous or naive.

 

[BlueBird]

If our military is bigger than all the worlds military combined then we have plenty of room for MAJOR cuts. If you don't see that (especially after 20+ years in the military) then you are being either disingenuous or naive.

I'm being neither naive nor disingenuous. I'm being realistic. In fact, if either of us is being naive it's most certainly you. Our military is struggling just to keep pace given our current commitments and to walk away from these commitments right now would be detrimental to our future national security. Just how much do you propose shaving from our military budget? 10%, 20%, 30%? To apply drastic major budget cuts in our military spending right now would have everlasting consequences on an already over burdened force. I'm starting to question whether you really served or not. I get that you're a self proclaimed devout Libertarian. I agree with many of the Libertarian views and tend to lean that way myself, however arming everyone in America and abolishing the military in exchange for privatized home land security forces isn't a realistic goal or a viable option.

Our military is larger than the next 15 military's combined and considering how we contribute to to peace keeping on a global scale it needs to be.

 

[jackers]

I'm being neither naive nor disingenuous. I'm being realistic. In fact, if either of us is being naive it's most certainly you. Our military is struggling just to keep pace given our current commitments and to walk away from these commitments right now would be detrimental to our future national security. Just how much do you propose shaving from our military budget? 10%, 20%, 30%? To apply drastic major budget cuts in our military spending right now would have everlasting consequences on an already over burdened force. I'm starting to question whether you really served or not. I get that you're a self proclaimed devout Libertarian. I agree with many of the Libertarian views and tend to lean that way myself, however arming everyone in America and abolishing the military in exchange for privatized home land security forces isn't a realistic goal or a viable option.

Our military is larger than the next 15 military's combined and considering how we contribute to to peace keeping on a global scale it needs to be.

You say our military is struggling, what do you think our economy is doing? You have this idea that we are some police force for the world, that we have some obligation to bankrupt ourselves while helping other countries.

That is all crap. We didn't go to Afghanistan to spread human rights and install democracy. We went there to fight terrorism. But what are we doing now? Nation building? Stopping the poppy production? Protecting the trillions or recently discovered mineral rights? The original mission is long gone and now we just keep lumbering on. Not to mention Iraq. What the he'll are we still doing there and why did we ever go there to begin with?

And war hawks all talk about human a rights abuses. What about the genocides in Darfur, Rwanda, Botswana, Burma, etc? Do those countries not deserve our protection too? Where is the outcry over that? Instead, we try to justify Iraq and Afghanistan any way we can. "Saddam killed his own people, it's our moral obligation to stop him." tell me you never heard that after they tried to justify Iraq.

But thank God for our 1000 military bases overseas. How would we ever be able to protect ourselves without spending over a TRILLION dollars a year on "National Defense?"

Don't you think that having bases all over the world might upset some people? When I was stationed in Okinawa, protesters used to picket the front gates all the time. In Greece they used to allow protesters on the base. Their signs said "NATO go home!"

But all of that makes us safer. Tell me, how would you react if China opened a base in Mexico?

 

[BlueBird]

I can see your point and I can appreciate where you are coming from. None the less I disagree with the notion that we perpetuate violence against ourselves because we place ourselves in the middle of every conflict around the world. I believe that with out our worldly presence there would be more conflict.

For us to be able to reduce our military force would require us to end two wars and close many of the bases you refer to. What would the fall out be if we were to do this? When I was stationed in Atsugi, Japan we had to deal with "peaceful" Japanese protesters on a regular basis. These protesters make up a very small percentage of the populace over there as most of them know that if we left the North Korean's and possibly China would come knocking on their door.

We are the world police. For better or worse the civil world has always looked to the the US for protection in time of conflict. As a free citizen in the greatest Republic ever built I can live with this. We can debate all day long but we just fundamentally disagree.

Thanks for your service...

 

[CheetahCats]

If Obama had been the captain of the Titanic he would have asked the passengers to ignore the fact that the ship was sinking, but rejoice in the number gallons "pumped or saved" so far.

 

[Larry Gude]

If Obama had been the captain of the Titanic he would have asked the passengers to ignore the fact that the ship was sinking, but rejoice in the number gallons "pumped or saved" so far.

Good one. He also may have said we need more holes, not less, in the boat so that the water has more places to get out.

 

[itsbob]

If our military is bigger than all the worlds military combined then we have plenty of room for MAJOR cuts. .

It's not.. NOT even CLOSE!

There are nations that have bigger military arms than the US.

China is almost TWICE as big as the US.. and INDIA and Russia are about equal to us..

Even North Korea is only about 10% smaller.

 

[itsbob]

*rewrite*

And that's just the Active Component.. Bring in the Reserves and the US drops down to 5th..

 

[CheetahCats]

That's an example of the problem with much of the electorate. They like to blurt out mistruths without first verifying facts; the truly frightening thing is they actually believe these mistruths. Fortunately, I think this situation is improving.

It's exactly these types of mistruths that Nancy, Reid, Obama, et.al. use as ammunition. These talking heads perceive that it's in their best interests to rabble-rouse, withhold information, tell half-truths, and in some cases, outright mislead the American people.

Pelosi: “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it”



If there is one thing that unites us, it's that the American people don't like to be taken for fools - irrespective of party affiliation.

 

[jackers]

It's not.. NOT even CLOSE!

There are nations that have bigger military arms than the US.

China is almost TWICE as big as the US.. and INDIA and Russia are about equal to us..

Even North Korea is only about 10% smaller.

So out of everything I have posted you pick one point (which I admit was a mistake) and totally ignore the rest of it. How do you justify this?

World Military Spending — Global Issues

http://static.globalissues.org/i/military/10/country-distribution-2009.png

 

[jackers]

That's an example of the problem with much of the electorate. They like to blurt out mistruths without first verifying facts; the truly frightening thing is they actually believe these mistruths. Fortunately, I think this situation is improving.

It's exactly these types of mistruths that Nancy, Reid, Obama, et.al. use as ammunition. These talking heads perceive that it's in their best interests to rabble-rouse, withhold information, tell half-truths, and in some cases, outright mislead the American people.

Pelosi: “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it”



If there is one thing that unites us, it's that the American people don't like to be taken for fools - irrespective of party affiliation.

Oh please. Of all the things I posted you are going to focus on that and totally ignore the rest of it. Address my concerns about the size of government when it comes to the programs you approve of. It is pretty obvious that I am no fan of Obama but I am not so hypocritical that I can't see through the partisan issues. Everyone is pretending to be so fiscally conservative now that we have an "open" spender in the White House but nobody said anything when the other team was doing it. And even worse, nobody seems to complain when the government spending is on their pet programs, i.e. military, social security, department of education, medicare, etc.

If you are going to claim to be fiscally conservative yet absolutely refuse to discuss the size and cost of our military, then I hate to say it, you are a hypocrite.

 

[CheetahCats]

Oh please. Of all the things I posted you are going to focus on that and totally ignore the rest of it. Address my concerns about the size of government when it comes to the programs you approve of. It is pretty obvious that I am no fan of Obama but I am not so hypocritical that I can't see through the partisan issues. Everyone is pretending to be so fiscally conservative now that we have an "open" spender in the White House but nobody said anything when the other team was doing it. And even worse, nobody seems to complain when the government spending is on their pet programs, i.e. military, social security, department of education, medicare, etc.

If you are going to claim to be fiscally conservative yet absolutely refuse to discuss the size and cost of our military, then I hate to say it, you are a hypocrite.

I didn't refuse to discuss anything. You only accused me of it. Your weak fallacious use of an ad hominem argument is a bit sophomoric.

 

[jackers]

I didn't refuse to discuss anything. You only accused me of it. Your weak fallacious use of an ad hominem argument is a bit sophomoric.

But yet your cherry picking is so much more progressive.