Which was it?

[2ndAmendment]

I apologize again. I should not be insulting. I simply can't see how you could read what I wrote and then write what you wrote unless you were trying to either be obtuse or to misrepresent my comment. I want you to pray. I am not addressing how you pray, or about whom, but rather what you write here on this message board for all to read. I encourage you to pray for me at every opportunity but don't use 'I prayed for you" as a "comeback" in an argument. Do you see what I'm saying? I assumed that your intentions were pure from the very start; I am merely telling you how it "looks" to me and maybe some others.
Saying the truth in love is also something that I encourage you to do, but often it appears that you quote scripture as a means of self-justification. I'm sorry if it seems that I am picking on you but I feel very strongly that we display Christianity in an authentic and humble way. This is a public forum and Christians hold no greater weight than non-Christians.
Again, sorry if I’m being offensive but I think that if people like midnightrider and wxtornado et al are going to read what we write we have an obligation to make it worth their while.

I can accept what you say; I do not entirely agree. I do not think what I post has to be acceptable to non-believers. Sometimes I post for believers. Non-believers can read it, but it was not posted with them in mind.

 

[itsbob]

This is the prayer Jesus taught the masses to pray, in Matthew chapt 6 :9.

I was praying to the Father in Jesus's name. Hope that clears things up.

These are the words to a prayer someone wrote 1800 years ago to teach you how to pray, it wasn't intended to be repeated ad nauseum for all time and eternity.

 

[itsbob]

Just before I hit the submit button, when I posted the Lord's Prayer, I stopped for a few seconds and asked God and Jesus that my posting His words would not be taken in the wrong manner, or seem to be insulting to some.

That is all I can offer to those who doubted my gesture.

And did you hear a reply? Did he talk to you?

 

[itsbob]

Yanno what is funny, is that me and others like me have done more for keeping the religionn forum going, and giving the religious amongst an opportunity to get out there message moreso than if we stayed away.

If we stayed away, you'd talk to each other, agree about whatever and the thread would die in three or four posts. Now we come in her, throw in a little dissent, get a little debate going and the thread will go on for hundreds of posts, with input from others that genereally probably wouldn't voice an opinion.

Dissent and disagreement is a good thing. People reading the threads get to hear both sides, the believer and the non- or less- believer.. and get to form an opinion on their own belief which I would think would be more meaningful and more powerful than someone that got spoon fed scriptures and nodded in agreement in a semi comatose state.

If I were to be a churchgoer, I would rather be sharing a pew with someone that has read, and researched, and heard both sides before they decided to sit there with me. Just my thought, maybe I'm wrong, but how strong is a conviction if you only heard what you wanted to hear anyways?

Y'all can thank me later.

 

[forever jewel]

Yanno what is funny, is that me and others like me have done more for keeping the religionn forum going, and giving the religious amongst an opportunity to get out there message moreso than if we stayed away.

If we stayed away, you'd talk to each other, agree about whatever and the thread would die in three or four posts. Now we come in her, throw in a little dissent, get a little debate going and the thread will go on for hundreds of posts, with input from others that genereally probably wouldn't voice an opinion.

Dissent and disagreement is a good thing. People reading the threads get to hear both sides, the believer and the non- or less- believer.. and get to form an opinion on their own belief which I would think would be more meaningful and more powerful than someone that got spoon fed scriptures and nodded in agreement in a semi comatose state.

If I were to be a churchgoer, I would rather be sharing a pew with someone that has read, and researched, and heard both sides before they decided to sit there with me. Just my thought, maybe I'm wrong, but how strong is a conviction if you only heard what you wanted to hear anyways?

Y'all can thank me later.

I see nothing wrong with a legitimate counter argument, as has been provided by Brendar buhl or MR. However, you interject with cheap remarks that don't contribute to the conversation. I see your remarks as disrespectful to those who are religious (no matter what religion that is). There is a difference in debating in order to further one's understanding of a particular religion and in mocking an individual for their beliefs.

 

[itsbob]

I see nothing wrong with a legitimate counter argument, as has been provided by Brendar buhl or MR. However, you interject with cheap remarks that don't contribute to the conversation. I see your remarks as disrespectful to those who are religious (no matter what religion that is). There is a difference in debating in order to further one's understanding of a particular religion and in mocking an individual for their beliefs.

My voicing my opinion is mocking?

I asked a question (if this is what you are referring too) "Did you hear a reply?" How is asking a question mocking?

I guess someone weak in their faith would consider that mocking, one strong in their faith would see it as an opportunity to share what they hear, or don't hear, when they pray.

Having a different opinion, or a different belief than you does not make my beliefs any less important than yours. If you can't defend your position, or your beliefs, or are not strong enough in your faith to withstand simple questions or very simple debate without getting offended you need to get a backbone.

 

[itsbob]

And my daddy always said,

"Better a smartass than a dumbass."

He is so wise.

 

[forever jewel]

My voicing my opinion is mocking?

I asked a question (if this is what you are referring too) "Did you hear a reply?" How is asking a question mocking?

I guess someone weak in their faith would consider that mocking, one strong in their faith would see it as an opportunity to share what they hear, or don't hear, when they pray.

If I'm not mistaken, there was a previous discussion about the intimacy and privacy of prayer. Therefore, would you consider asking someone to discuss their prayer to be intrusive and disrespectful?

I did not say you are not allowed to have a different opinion. I respect your beliefs as your own as I hope you do the same for me.

If you can't defend your position, or your beliefs, or are not strong enough in your faith to withstand simple questions or very simple debate without getting offended you need to get a backbone.

I am very secure in my faith, tyvm.


Well its a good thing we're debating like this, otherwise...

the thread would die in three or four posts.

 

[itsbob]

If I'm not mistaken, there was a previous discussion about the intimacy and privacy of prayer. Therefore, would you consider asking someone to discuss their prayer to be intrusive and disrespectful?

:

He posted the prayer in here, so how could my question about his praying be intrusive? He made it public, and even made the pre-prayer prayer public. He asked if he should post the prayer (which he did) so he must of received an answer to the positive that yes he should post it. My question is, how did he get the answer? Did he hear a voice? Did someone(thing) else hit the submit button? Did he get a pop up on his screen.. "Post the prayer!! .. GOD!" I mean if you can hear a bush talk I would assume anything is possible, I was just curious as to how the message was delivered.

 

[Penn]

These are the words to a prayer someone wrote 1800 years ago to teach you how to pray, it wasn't intended to be repeated ad nauseum for all time and eternity.

It's been my understanding that Jesus Christ is the author of that prayer, as written in the book of Matthew chapt 6 : 9, and, not by just "someone" - and Biblical history tells us it is closer to 2000 years old now. Please, I would ask you not to denigrate it.

If you you refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ, that is YOUR choice. There are millions upon millions of people who do acknowledge him, and nothing you can intellectually propose will ever change that.

God Bless you, my friend.

 

[Penn]

He posted the prayer in here, so how could my question about his praying be intrusive? He made it public, and even made the pre-prayer prayer public. He asked if he should post the prayer (which he did) so he must of received an answer to the positive that yes he should post it. My question is, how did he get the answer?

I'll put it like this: I did not receive, or get a negative feeling or sense from above as to whether or not I should post it. My faith in God allowed me to share that prayer with everyone. That is how I viewed it.

If you want to go ahead and make a mockery of the feelings of Christians all over the world, that is YOUR choice.

 

[itsbob]

It's been my understanding that Jesus Christ is the author of that prayer, as written in the book of Matthew chapt 6 : 9, and, not by just "someone" - and Biblical history tells us it is closer to 2000 years old now. Please, I would ask you not to denigrate it.

If you you refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ, that is YOUR choice. There are millions upon millions of people who do acknowledge him, and nothing you can intellectually propose will ever change that.

God Bless you, my friend.

Nope, whomever wrote it, wrote what they thought Jesus said 100 - 400 years prior. Matthew nor Jesus wrote those words. Matthew is another book written from memory, from a persons memory of events.

Biblical scholars always say, "These are Jesus' words." But nobody can say for sure, because other than the bible there are no written records of anything Jesus said or did, even though they talk about the multitudes of scholars and scribes that followed him it seems none of them kept a written record, diary or anything else for that matter.

Much later, when the Bible was written, scholars that were two, three and four generations removed met and wrote down their "memories", which were more or less stories handed down from person to person, nothing was first hand knowledge, none of the authors were present, nor even alive when Jesus walked the earth. SO to say anything is "Said by Jesus" is a guess at best.

I'm not denigrating anything, I'm just providing facts as I believe them, just as you are providing your facts.

And I acknowledge Jesus Christ for what he was. A good person, a humane person, with a good heart. He was not a super being, he did not have superman like powers. He may be a person to pattern your life after, and WWJD might be an appropriatte question, but by the time the real stories of his life were written it had mostly become fiction. Helping a crippled man stand to talk to him, may have turned into (over time) Jesus cured a crippled man, as he ran up the stairs to greet him.

 

[itsbob]

I'll put it like this: I did not receive, or get a negative feeling or sense from above as to whether or not I should post it. My faith in God allowed me to share that prayer with everyone. That is how I viewed it.

If you want to go ahead and make a mockery of the feelings of Christians all over the world, that is YOUR choice.

So anyone with a different opinion is mocking? Since I don't believe I don't have the right to share my beliefs? I'm an infidel, a heretic..

Should I be afraid? Or is it safe to have differing opinions and beliefs than Christians? Or will I too be smote in the name of God??

 

[This_person]

Yanno what is funny, is that me and others like me have done more for keeping the religionn forum going, and giving the religious amongst an opportunity to get out there message moreso than if we stayed away.

If we stayed away, you'd talk to each other, agree about whatever and the thread would die in three or four posts. Now we come in her, throw in a little dissent, get a little debate going and the thread will go on for hundreds of posts, with input from others that genereally probably wouldn't voice an opinion.

Dissent and disagreement is a good thing. People reading the threads get to hear both sides, the believer and the non- or less- believer.. and get to form an opinion on their own belief which I would think would be more meaningful and more powerful than someone that got spoon fed scriptures and nodded in agreement in a semi comatose state.

If I were to be a churchgoer, I would rather be sharing a pew with someone that has read, and researched, and heard both sides before they decided to sit there with me. Just my thought, maybe I'm wrong, but how strong is a conviction if you only heard what you wanted to hear anyways?

Y'all can thank me later.

I think you're right. Without people like you, no one would go to seminary school, no one would take bible courses, no one would teach nor attend Sunday school, no one would send their kids to VBS, no one would read anything but hymnals and we'd all be foolishly following the crowd that goes to our church, none of us whom know anything about what we're all talking about.






Wait, maybe not......

 

[itsbob]

I think you're right. Without people like you, no one would go to seminary school, no one would take bible courses, no one would teach nor attend Sunday school, no one would send their kids to VBS, no one would read anything but hymnals and we'd all be foolishly following the crowd that goes to our church, none of us whom know anything about what we're all talking about.






Wait, maybe not......

Yep, and if you all lined up and jumped off a bridge I wouldn't blindly follow you either.

 

[itsbob]

I think you're right. Without people like you, no one would go to seminary school, no one would take bible courses, no one would teach nor attend Sunday school, no one would send their kids to VBS, no one would read anything but hymnals and we'd all be foolishly following the crowd that goes to our church, none of us whom know anything about what we're all talking about.






Wait, maybe not......

I don't know which church you go to, but if your church leader told you tomorrow to quit your job, sell all of your worldly possessions and meet in Mississippi for the second coming would you do it?

 

[This_person]

I don't know which church you go to, but if your church leader told you tomorrow to quit your job, sell all of your worldly possessions and meet in Mississippi for the second coming would you do it?

Are you serious?

I think I would do what 99.99% of religious peole would do - dump the fool, report him up the church hierarchy, and find a replacement.

 

[This_person]

Yep, and if you all lined up and jumped off a bridge I wouldn't blindly follow you either.

I think you've mistaken the religious for Lemings.

I think you'll like this, if fits your concept:
Bill Maher, on religion

 

[itsbob]

Are you serious?

I think I would do what 99.99% of religious peole would do - dump the fool, report him up the church hierarchy, and find a replacement.

But he's the church leader, he talks to God, or do you not believe that? If he comes to you and said "GOd has instructed us to..." you would ignore it?

This question was asked of us in church, if our church leader, the prophet came and told us to do so, if we were true believers, and took our pledge and baptism serious, then we would all UNQUESTIONINGLY do as instructed. I replied "You've lost your minds if you think that." People looked at me like I had just killed all of their children.. yep, as you put it, Lemmings.

This has already happened to several churches, and their followers did as instructed (not all but the majority). This no better then someone coming forward and saying "God has talked to me, and told me if I don't raise 10M dollars, by this date, I will be called home!!" And the lemmings pick up the phone and empty their savings accounts to save this religious man..

 

[itsbob]

ANd I'd say your percentage of 99.9% would be wrong. IF the Pope came out today and told Cathoics the world over that Armegeddon is upon us, come onto Jerusalum for salvation before the 15th of Jun.. I think many more then .01% would be selling all of their belongings and heading "home". I don't hink in any way, that 100% would do it, but I'd bet more than 50% would try to.