Which was it?

[2ndAmendment]

Your God saw you post it, remember? Infinitely back in time even! How can you even make a choice not to post it if he already saw you post?

There is your fallacy. You impose time on God like it is imposed on humans, serially. God is spirit; time is irrelevant. The laws of physics apply to humans but not to God. You try to understand with human knowledge the creator of the universe and beyond. It cannot be done. The things of the spirit are foolishness to human knowledge.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
We are at a point where it's becoming a cyclical argument which can go on until the end of time....

But that is what wxtornado does.

 

[ItalianScallion]

thats exactly my point, people wrote about their experiences and their observations, because they are people, they add their falliablity to the mix.
well i agree that it "is said to be the word of god" the question is, is it really.

If I may? As Toxic correctly said, the book of mormon & the quoran are internally flawed. The Bible is internally consistent and has actual proof of it's DIVINE authorship.
1) There are over 5700 written copies of the old & new testament manuscripts; more than any other document in the world.
2) There are archaeological finds every week documenting cities, civilizations, artifacts & people that only the Bible has spoken of.
3) The prophesies in it could NEVER have been predicted with such accuracy by any human, only God. Isaiah predicted the birth of Christ over 700 years before it happened and he predicted it with absolute perfect accuracy.
4) And the probability of 40 writers living at different times and in different parts of the world writing about the same thing (Midnightrider) proves that none of them "added their own fallibility to the mix".
The Bible is God telling men what to write and they made NO errors when they wrote. (Read 2 Peter 1v16-21 & Galatians 1v 12). If God overshadows you to do something, He will not let you add your own spin to it.

Also there was a time that all Bibles were to be destroyed and God prevented it because it is His Word! No one tried to destroy the other 2 books mentioned above did they? No one tries to remove muslim, mormon or other prayers from schools & government do they? These are undeniable signs that Christianity is the ONLY true belief system of the ONLY true God. It's too late to change when you die, so believe now! Remember, everyone in Hell today, now believes in God. They're not saved but they now realize their error. Don't wait! If there isn't a God, you've lost nothing. If there is, you'll lose everything!

 

[Midnightrider]

If I may? As Toxic correctly said, the book of mormon & the quoran are internally flawed. The Bible is internally consistent and has actual proof of it's DIVINE authorship.
1) There are over 5700 written copies of the old & new testament manuscripts; more than any other document in the world.
2) There are archaeological finds every week documenting cities, civilizations, artifacts & people that only the Bible has spoken of.
3) The prophesies in it could NEVER have been predicted with such accuracy by any human, only God. Isaiah predicted the birth of Christ over 700 years before it happened and he predicted it with absolute perfect accuracy.
4) And the probability of 40 writers living at different times and in different parts of the world writing about the same thing (Midnightrider) proves that none of them "added their own fallibility to the mix".
The Bible is God telling men what to write and they made NO errors when they wrote. (Read 2 Peter 1v16-21 & Galatians 1v 12). If God overshadows you to do something, He will not let you add your own spin to it.

Also there was a time that all Bibles were to be destroyed and God prevented it because it is His Word! No one tried to destroy the other 2 books mentioned above did they? No one tries to remove muslim, mormon or other prayers from schools & government do they? These are undeniable signs that Christianity is the ONLY true belief system of the ONLY true God. It's too late to change when you die, so believe now! Remember, everyone in Hell today, now believes in God. They're not saved but they now realize their error. Don't wait! If there isn't a God, you've lost nothing. If there is, you'll lose everything!

Let me just say, YOU CANNOT PROVE A THEORY BY RESTATING PARTS OF IT.

Therefore you cannot prove the truth of a book, by using that passages from that book. Its just like defining a word, using the same word, it has no value.

there were many gospels that were written during the same period as those that were accepted as 'truth' that were discounted by men when determining which to include in the bible. If these men were not being guided by god, then they intruduced their falliability at that point, elimiinating what they disagreed with, didn't undertand, or didn't jive with their agenda.

Let me ask you this, when in history did man loose the ability to converse with god? Obviously you believe this has already occured or you would not reject the book of morman out of hand, as the story of the translation of the gold tablets greatly reflects that of the ten commandments.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
Let me ask you this, when in history did man loose the ability to converse with god? Obviously you believe this has already occured or you would not reject the book of morman out of hand, as the story of the translation of the gold tablets greatly reflects that of the ten commandments.

Never. It is called prayer. And yes, prayer is answered. And yes, I believe that the Bible and the decision that it consist of the 66 books of the canon was through divine guidance.

I do not believe in the Book of Mormon because John Smith has been proven to be a false prophet. A true prophet of God will never give false prophesy.

 

[Midnightrider]

Never. It is called prayer. And yes, prayer is answered. And yes, I believe that the Bible and the decision that it consist of the 66 books of the canon was through divine guidance.

I do not believe in the Book of Mormon because John Smith has been proven to be a false prophet. A true prophet of God will never give false prophesy.

How?

 

[Toxick]

How?

http://forums.somd.com/showpost.php?p=2041390&postcount=109



The linked post was directly written to and for you and your reading enjoyment.




Glad you took the time to absorb it all.

 

[Midnightrider]

http://forums.somd.com/showpost.php?p=2041390&postcount=109



The linked post was directly written to and for you and your reading enjoyment.




Glad you took the time to absorb it all.

youre surprised i dont accept your discounting another religion out of hand?

like i said before, the joseph smith story closely parallels the story of moses and the tablets. 2nd A just got done telling me that he believes people still converse with god. Therefore, why would christians discount those who make these claims as false phrophets? surely if you two had been around 2000 years ago, you would ave been the biggest skeptics, blindly pointing to the old testament as to prove that jesus wasn't the son of god......

 

[Toxick]

youre surprised i dont accept your discounting another religion out of hand?

1) Nothing you say surprises me.

2) I didn't discount it out of hand.

I wrote a detailed historical timeline which proves that Joseph Smith's claims to divine authority were false. So you're telling me that you think all the history books on the subject were written by a pack of liars.


Now who is discounting things out of hand.

surely if you two had been around 2000 years ago, you would ave been the biggest skeptics, blindly pointing to the old testament as to prove that jesus wasn't the son of god......

Since you're a psychic and you know what I'd do in a given scenario, guess which finger I'm holding up.

 

[Midnightrider]

1) Nothing you say surprises me.

2) I didn't discount it out of hand.

I wrote a detailed historical timeline which proves that Joseph Smith's claims to divine authority were false. So you're telling me that you think all the history books on the subject were written by a pack of liars.


Now who is discounting things out of hand.







Since you're a psychic and you know what I'd do in a given scenario, guess which finger I'm holding up.

I know that all of the history books on the subject dont agree, otherwise no one would belive......

the same one as me probably

 

[Toxick]

I know that all of the history books on the subject dont agree, otherwise no one would belive......

Of course you have to check your sources for objectivity.


However, we're not talking about something that happened back in the mists of time. This is something that happened less than 200 years ago.

I find that most objective records of that time period don't vary too much in their details.



Some even have photographs.

 

[itsbob]

No - the book of Mormon is less acceptable because it was written by a false prophet, who was proven so by his own actions. If something was written last week and proves itself worthy of being included in biblical canon, I would accept it. The date it was written means little to me.

That's not very tolerant of other people's beliefs. Why is your church right, and their church wrong?

We don't know who wrote the bible, so how could it be any more or less acceptable than the book of Mormon?? Who's to say a false prophet didn't write the bible?

 

[Toxick]

That's not very tolerant of other people's beliefs. Why is your church right, and their church wrong?

I've already been over it.

If you really care, do a search. I'm not going to hash it all out again.

 

[itsbob]

Because Joseph Smith is a proven liar. I don't mean to be disrespectful toward other religions in the Religion forum, so my apologies to any Mormons reading this. But nothing gives Joseph Smith divine authority, and he has been shown to engage in fraud.

He claimed to have gotten the book of Mormon on Golden Tablets from an Angel named Moroni - who took the Golden Tablets back.

Well... ok.

Even if I were to accept that, there's more. After starting his religion, he got a hold of some Egyptian papyri which he "translated" and said were the lost books of Abraham and Joseph. These papyri held such interesting tid-bits such as the statement from God that says that black people were supposed to be servants and slaves to whites and Asians.

With the discovery of the Rosetta stone, it was determined that, instead of being the Books of Abraham and Joseph, the documents were actually copies of The Egyptian Book of the Dead and The Breathing Permit of Horus.

So I put little credence into Mormonism.




I'm fairly certain the bible was, in fact, completely written and assembled in 1829.



Anyway, just because someone says they're inspired by God doesn't mean they ARE.

I've already spelled out the reasons I believe in the Bible, and I see no reason to hash that all out again - but since I DO believe in the Bible, I believe it is inspired by God - and I believe that it's the ONLY word of God.

But unlike the bible there are eyewitness accounts to everything Joseph Smith claimed or did.. Oliver wrote testimony to the fact that he witnessed and helped translating the tablets..

Eyewitness accounts of people that were alive, that wrote they witnessed the Urim and Thurim. Not hearsy, not second hand acounts written 100 years after the fact, but people that were there.

Written evidence of the Sacred Grove.. of the "Godhead"..

And what Authority did Joseph Smith not have?

If you believe in one, you really have no choice but to believe in the more believable "other"

 

[This_person]

And that's fine - I just wanted to know if you could explain it in a way that I understand.

I have tried in many different ways (sees several threads of life, choices I make are mine whether he knew them already or not, etc.). Maybe if you asked in a way that you didn't have a predetermined answer for, I could help.

 

[Toxick]

If you believe in one, you really have no choice but to believe in the more believable "other"

Whatever.



I've already explained why I believe one and not the other.

If you don't accept my explanations, that's fine, but I've said my piece on the subject. I really see no point in continuing this conversation.

 

[itsbob]

Whatever.



I've already explained why I believe one and not the other.

If you don't accept my explanations, that's fine, but I've said my piece on the subject. I really see no point in continuing this conversation.

I win!!

 

[2ndAmendment]

I win!!

We have been over this before. You do not win, or only win in your mind, not the mind of others. It is sad that you are so trivial minded that you have to win.

 

[Toxick]

I win!!

Why - because I don't see the need in engaging in the tedious behavior of expressing what I've already expressed - only to have you dismiss it out of hand after twisting the meaning of what I said?



If you want to call that winning, then congratulations.

Mind you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

 

[itsbob]

Why - because I don't see the need in engaging in the tedious behavior of expressing what I've already expressed - only to have you dismiss it out of hand after twisting the meaning of what I said?



If you want to call that winning, then congratulations.

Mind you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

I already won, you don't have to conitnue the conversation anymore..