Pushrod
Patriot
And crimes by CCW holders in those states are almost non-existent and definetly way below the averages. Plus studies using FBI statistics have shown that crime in these states have decreased at a greater rate than the national average once 'shall-issue ccw' was institutedhttp://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html http://archive.anomalies.net/index.php?dir=Fringe-Political_Belief/&file=CCWSTATS.TXT Texas CHL Analysis.
Everyday there are stories on gun rights sites about someone defending themselves or a love one with a gun (see Keep and Bear Arms - Gun Owners Home Page - 2nd Amendment Supporters for one), most of those self-defence situations the defender didn't even have to fire the weapon, just drawing it was enough to stop the criminal from acting.
There are estimates of millions of self-defence use of firearms every year. You don't hear about the majority of them because shots are never fired.
You are being disingenuous if you try to say that carrying a gun will not protect you or a loved one. Read about Luby's cafe in Texas Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia as an example of what can happen without CCW.
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Larry Gude
Strung Out
...
...if memory serves, there was a woman there who was just in agony because she'd left her pistol in the car because Luby's didn't allow guns. She lived, but I'm not sure if the people she was with were hurt or not.
The anti's support most every imaginable scenario where even if it's one in a million that this or that or the other thing would have saved someone then it should have been done and will darn well be done in the future. Until they get to self defense. Then, one in a million doesn't count.
...if memory serves, there was a woman there who was just in agony because she'd left her pistol in the car because Luby's didn't allow guns. She lived, but I'm not sure if the people she was with were hurt or not.
The anti's support most every imaginable scenario where even if it's one in a million that this or that or the other thing would have saved someone then it should have been done and will darn well be done in the future. Until they get to self defense. Then, one in a million doesn't count.
Xaquin44
New Member
I wasn't accusing them of committing crimes.
Pushrod
Patriot
Read the articles. It also states that crimes rates dramatically decreased when CCW was instituted in those states. So concealed carry did alter the criminal's actions by reducing the rates that they committed crimes. Who knows if the person you are preying on is going to turn the tables on you.
In short, armed citizenry works!
AK-74me
"Typical White Person"
Yes, watch the link I posted in the thread earlier of her testifying to that MF'er Shcummer and others.
Pushrod
Patriot
Suzanna Hupp. Her parents were both killed right before her eyes in the massacre. The law at the time in Texas forbid CCW and there was no shall-issue permit. She had a legal handgun out in her car that she could not carry into the restaurant. She petitioned for and got a CCW shall-issue law passed in Texas. She has been a gun rights advocate ever since.
edinsomd
New Member
C
czygvtwkr
Guest
I love the malls and such that have signs that say no concealed weapons. I always think oh so I can strap a shotgun to my back and be ok.
itsbob
I bowl overhand
yes, because breaking tha malls rules about concealed weapons is going to stop someone hell bent on killing as many people he can..
Just ensures the law abiding people are even less able to protect themselves and their families from some lunatic going on a rampage amongst the sheep.
AK-74me
"Typical White Person"
I can pull my 9mm or 40 S&W out of my holster and get in a shooting stance much quicker than with any rifle or shotgun. With the right ammunition in the handgun (a few Black Talons for example), who needs a rifle?
Bet he wished he had a rifle.
YouTube - Graphic - Deputy Dinkheller shooting video
Larry Gude
Strung Out
...
...his best move, with a handgun, would have been to advance, close the distance before the shooting started but I'll bet he's told not to, not allowed to in training.
Stunning what we humans will and won't do under intense stress.
...his best move, with a handgun, would have been to advance, close the distance before the shooting started but I'll bet he's told not to, not allowed to in training.
Stunning what we humans will and won't do under intense stress.
AK-74me
"Typical White Person"
Yeah, not sure what I would of done, I just know that cop was in a bad spot once the bad guy decided to exit and really engage the deputy with the AK.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
...
...AK or an M1 carbine? I couldn't tell. Either way, he's in deep kimchi.
Closing the distance, sitting here behind a keyboard, seems to me like his only practical tactical move; get on him and get close BEFORE he can bear arms.
Once the guy started fumbling inside the truck that is, to me, cause enough to consider hostilities may well be about to commence and move in, right now. I can not see, given that video, anyone finding fault with him AT LEAST approaching the guy aggressively. It seemed pretty obvious that the guy was arming himself.
And he can't retreat. What if it's just a baseball bat? If it is a long gun, retreating means he has to totally give himself up and trust that retreating will de-escalate an already white hot situation.
You can just feel the deputy, his voice, his actions "Oh my God, what do I do? What do I do?" He was outside the loop pretty early and that was that.
Terrifying.
...AK or an M1 carbine? I couldn't tell. Either way, he's in deep kimchi.
Closing the distance, sitting here behind a keyboard, seems to me like his only practical tactical move; get on him and get close BEFORE he can bear arms.
Once the guy started fumbling inside the truck that is, to me, cause enough to consider hostilities may well be about to commence and move in, right now. I can not see, given that video, anyone finding fault with him AT LEAST approaching the guy aggressively. It seemed pretty obvious that the guy was arming himself.
And he can't retreat. What if it's just a baseball bat? If it is a long gun, retreating means he has to totally give himself up and trust that retreating will de-escalate an already white hot situation.
You can just feel the deputy, his voice, his actions "Oh my God, what do I do? What do I do?" He was outside the loop pretty early and that was that.
Terrifying.
AK-74me
"Typical White Person"
You're right, it sure would of been nice if he'd of had a patrol rifle slung at the low ready while giving them commands and ready to engage him once the threat could be determined.
dustin
UAIOE
I look at it as an extension to my life insurance policy. :shrug:
I'd like to find the "statistics" (if there are any) on the relationship of violent crime involving handguns in relation to the amount of CCW owners per state.
Novus Collectus
New Member
The odds of them being useful is astronomical, but not the way you are thinking.
Guns are used successfully against attackers a hundred thousand times, to millions of times a year.
If a criminal attacks without warning, they have to make sure their victim is going down and cannot shoot back. There are many cases where the victim was able to shoot the attacker even after being attacked.....there was even a case in MD just two years ago on a permit holder in a mall parking lot in broad daylight.
Baltimore City Paper - News+Features: Murder Ink
Also about that time an off duty Baltimore was being robbed at gunpoint. He was shot, but he was still able to pull his own gun and kill an attacker.
And about that time ANOTHER off duty Baltimore police officer was being robbed at knife point right in front of his row house and even though it was three of them and the knife was at his throat, he got his gun out and also killed one of the attackers.
So the odds of a surprise attack on someone they think has a gun are not all that much in their favor and the odds of an innocent victim with a gun being able to use it is way far from being "astronomical".
Novus Collectus
New Member
In most of the states that passed shall issue, violent crime fell.
AK-74me
"Typical White Person"
Did you lose your password to this site for a while or what?
Been gone for a long time.
AK-74me
"Typical White Person"
Dumb cop on guns in America
Program on National Geo right now, cop says:
"Only reason I have a gun is because I'm a police officer, other than that I don't think I have a need for one..but unfortuately people have the right to own guns, and they're going to exercise that right".
This is coming from a man who was shot in the line of duty.
Program on National Geo right now, cop says:
"Only reason I have a gun is because I'm a police officer, other than that I don't think I have a need for one..but unfortuately people have the right to own guns, and they're going to exercise that right".
This is coming from a man who was shot in the line of duty.