Why the regulative principle in worship

[cheezgrits]

And yet you say nothing when Bird Dog calls Protestants "strip mall preachers who crawled up from the gutter" and other such drivel. Take the log from your eye before you be picking the speck from mine.

Even I'll jump in defend BD on this...you know exactly what he means when he says that. Nice cherry picking...

 

[Radiant1]

And yet you say nothing when Bird Dog calls Protestants "strip mall preachers who crawled up from the gutter" and other such drivel. Take the log from your eye before you be picking the speck from mine.

You're right, I don't defend Protestants anymore than you defend the "Romanists who are Satanic and follow a false religion so will therefore burn in hell and in no way, shape or form your brother/sister". However, I don't shoot unity down when it's called for whether it be by a Catholic or a Protestant. In fact, I much rather enjoy those very rare threads.

In addition, if you haven't noticed, I don't pick on Protestants I merely defend my own faith when they (you) spread falsehoods about it. I don't think you can say the same.

If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it. :shrug:

 

[Railroad]

You're right, I don't defend Protestants anymore than you defend the "Romanists who are Satanic and follow a false religion so will therefore burn in hell and in no way, shape or form your brother/sister". However, I don't shoot unity down when it's called for whether it be by a Catholic or a Protestant. In fact, I much rather enjoy those very rare threads.

In addition, if you haven't noticed, I don't pick on Protestants I merely defend my own faith when they (you) spread falsehoods about it. I don't think you can say the same.

If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it. :shrug:

I'm a unity guy, passionately so. Although it's hard to remember sometimes, God has created each of us and loves us. Who am I to condemn those who are precious to Him? I think studying them and learning about the good in them and respecting them for their gifts are the basics of what He'd like for me to do with them.

 

[Zguy28]

You're right, I don't defend Protestants anymore than you defend the "Romanists who are Satanic and follow a false religion so will therefore burn in hell and in no way, shape or form your brother/sister". However, I don't shoot unity down when it's called for whether it be by a Catholic or a Protestant. In fact, I much rather enjoy those very rare threads.

In addition, if you haven't noticed, I don't pick on Protestants I merely defend my own faith when they (you) spread falsehoods about it. I don't think you can say the same.

If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it. :shrug:

What falsehoods have I spread about the Catholic Church? I've just quoted the Council of Trent. Bavarian didn't seem to have a problem with what I posted.

Anywho...honestly, what theological unity can Rome and Protestantism have? That has always been my point. They can't, at least not on the foundational doctrines such as Justification.

And btw, this is for HotCoffee and Railroad, you can dislike differences like this all you want, but when it comes down to it, the folks who you descended from spiritually and brought you the Reformation were way stronger than I in their language and speech. Be thankful they stood up or you would be Roman Catholic.

Is that what you want to be? Catholic? Please answer this. I wonder if you will...If you say no, why not?

Now, let me also qualify everything I have said. I do not hate the Catholic Church. I do not hate their members. I do not believe they are Satanic or something like that.

I have a great wish (and pray for it also) that the church would somehow become one again, however, it will never happen without a reformation of Catholic doctrines such as these. Nor do I want to see it happen without a reformation of doctrine.

 

[Zguy28]

Even I'll jump in defend BD on this...you know exactly what he means when he says that. Nice cherry picking...

Wow, a post without a question. What does he mean?

 

[Bird Dog]

Wow, a post without a question. What does he mean?

I starting a fan club!

You have not condemned the Catholic Church but you have made misstatements.
You and I have never had large issues.

but....when some, who I call "Stripmall" preachers, who, if you checked their backgrounds and even listened to some of them, crawling "out of the gutter" is a badge of honor.
They do not concentrate on non-believers, they start attacking my faith and I will not let them get away with that, because I know who they are.
I only get fired up when they start condemning my faith.

I did not crawl out of the gutter and find Jesus and all sudden became holier than thou.
I was born Catholic, raised Catholic, raised my children as Catholics and thank God everyday for my faith.

 

[Zguy28]

I starting a fan club!

You have not condemned the Catholic Church but you have made misstatements.
You and I have never had large issues.

but....when some, who I call "Stripmall" preachers, who, if you checked their backgrounds and even listened to some of them, crawling "out of the gutter" is a badge of honor.
They do not concentrate on non-believers, they start attacking my faith and I will not let them get away with that, because I know who they are.
I only get fired up when they start condemning my faith.

I did not crawl out of the gutter and find Jesus and all sudden became holier than thou.
I was born Catholic, raised Catholic, raised my children as Catholics and thank God everyday for my faith.

It is funny, but most "anti-Catholics" have been either ex-Catholic's or theologians in my experience. I'm thinking of guys like James White. I guess you can put me in that group if it includes anybody who disagrees doctrinally and freely expresses that.

Most of the "strip-mall preachers" (your words) I've seen are very uneducated in theology even to know the difference really. But I guess we all have different experiences.

 

[Radiant1]

What falsehoods have I spread about the Catholic Church? I've just quoted the Council of Trent. Bavarian didn't seem to have a problem with what I posted.

None...in this thread.

Anywho...honestly, what theological unity can Rome and Protestantism have? That has always been my point. They can't, at least not on the foundational doctrines such as Justification.

I already mentioned it, which you chose to ignore. Saved by grace. That's a start. Ironically, the Lutherans don't have problem with that but you do.

I have a great wish (and pray for it also) that the church would somehow become one again, however, it will never happen without a reformation of Catholic doctrines such as these. Nor do I want to see it happen without a reformation of doctrine.

You're right, THAT will never happen. It always amuses me when Protestantism which is only 200 years old attempts to tell Catholicism which is 2000 years old and directly descended from Christ where it's at. As if.

It is funny, but most "anti-Catholics" have been either ex-Catholic's or theologians in my experience. I'm thinking of guys like James White. I guess you can put me in that group if it includes anybody who disagrees doctrinally and freely expresses that.

I'm a Catholic convert educated in theology to some degree. I never attacked my former Protestant faith. In fact, I got good at apologetics because I was attacked for having converted Catholic. Go figure.

Face it, there is a strong line of anti-Catholicism in Protestantism. There has to be lest there'd be nothing for you to protest. It's a 200-year old polemic. As I asked Stone Thrower, is his faith dependent up on hating the Church? It certainly appears so.

Most of the "strip-mall preachers" (your words) I've seen are very uneducated in theology even to know the difference really. But I guess we all have different experiences.

And to think they're leading people and spreading their ignorance and hatred. That's scary #### right there.

 

[Zguy28]

None...in this thread.

are you implying I did so intentionally, knowing it was false or that I have said something out of ignorance (which I have and retracted)?

I already mentioned it, which you chose to ignore. Saved by grace. That's a start. Ironically, the Lutherans don't have problem with that but you do.

Yep, you got me. We are saved by grace. But as our very own Onel has often talked about, our soteriology is much more involved than that and fundamentally different in how it works.

You're right, THAT will never happen. It always amuses me when Protestantism which is only 200 years old attempts to tell Catholicism which is 2000 years old and directly descended from Christ where it's at. As if.

If you recall there have been flavors of baptists for much much longer than that. Perhaps if the church had not "evolved" it's doctrines, there would have been no need to protest. The church as you know it is not 2000 years old.

I'm a Catholic convert educated in theology to some degree. I never attacked my former Protestant faith. In fact, I got good at apologetics because I was attacked for having converted Catholic. Go figure.

as I said, we all have our own experiences. I know many baptists who have been disowned or even physically attacked by former fellow members of the Catholic Church as well because they left and began preaching justification by faith alone.

Face it, there is a strong line of anti-Catholicism in Protestantism. There has to be lest there'd be nothing for you to protest. It's a 200-year old polemic. As I asked Stone Thrower, is his faith dependent up on hating the Church? It certainly appears so.

Sure. I don't know ST personally, but I know that while I speak openly about what I believe are doctrinal errors in the Catholic Church, I do not hate you, no matter how you frustrate me at times. I actually consider you a friend and respect your honesty, even if at times I disagree with it.

And to think they're leading people and spreading their ignorance and hatred. That's scary #### right there.

yes, but also remember that the apostles were uneducated fishermen, so never judge a persons character or usefulness to God based on education.

 

[Bird Dog]

yes, but also remember that the apostles were uneducated fishermen, so never judge a persons character or usefulness to God based on education.

Yes, but they had a great teacher!

The "strip-mall" preacher are not so fortunate.

 

[hotcoffee]

Yes, but they had a great teacher!

The "strip-mall" preacher are not so fortunate.

See now that's where I figure people are wrong about some preachers. They have the same teacher.... when you are called to preach...really called... then when you read the Bible, Jesus just talks to you.

It's not just the Bible either.... some of the books you guys link to on these forums is pretty good reading.

Doesn't the Bible talk about false teachers? And then again... Jesus said "those who aren't against us are for us" Right?

Moses could barely talk and he communicated daily with God.

There are a lot of bad preachers out there. Some of those churches are down right crazy! There are some good ones too! I don't think Seminary is all that required..... I think it's something you aspire to do.... Right?

 

[Radiant1]

are you implying I did so intentionally, knowing it was false or that I have said something out of ignorance (which I have and retracted)?

See below.

Yep, you got me. We are saved by grace. But ...

But...you are going to be divisive anyway when someone calls for unity.

If you recall there have been flavors of baptists for much much longer than that. Perhaps if the church had not "evolved" it's doctrines, there would have been no need to protest.

Please do trace the Baptists back to Christ for me because I don't recall that. And, the protest didn't start because of doctrines but rather because of corruption and abuse (and rightly so); however, as I said before had the reformers attempted to reform from within they'd be called saints. Instead, they started believing something new and inventive that had never before been preached or taught.

The church as you know it is not 2000 years old.

And there ya go. The answer to your question above is "You have done and continue to do so intentionally." The age of the Catholic Church has been proven to you time and again, but yet you still persist.

as I said, we all have our own experiences. I know many baptists who have been disowned or even physically attacked by former fellow members of the Catholic Church as well because they left and began preaching justification by faith alone.

I don't doubt that's happened on rare occasion, but how many? Judging from this forum alone we can see that it's not Catholics persecuting Protestants for their faith.

Sure. I don't know ST personally, but I know that while I speak openly about what I believe are doctrinal errors in the Catholic Church, I do not hate you, no matter how you frustrate me at times. I actually consider you a friend and respect your honesty, even if at times I disagree with it.

The question is WHY do you feel it necessary to speak out about it? Catholics don't do so about Protestantism even though we think you're totally and completely heretical. And that's the point. Your faith seems to be dependent upon being anti-Catholic.

yes, but also remember that the apostles were uneducated fishermen, so never judge a persons character or usefulness to God based on education.

Yes, and they walked and were taught by Jesus and they then handed down what they learned (hint). I don't think the same could be said for the so-called strip-mall preachers.

 

[Railroad]

Speaking as a former ("recovering" to use a more humorous term) Baptist, I'd say that there is a lot of time and energy wasted by Protestants, Catholics, and others - Baptists, of course, among them - on these fruitless arguments. This is time and energy better spent in reaching out to, or welcoming in, those who seek answers and ultimately Salvation. All this argument over dogma and doctrine and the like brings to mind the Pharisees and Sadducees of Biblical notoriety. Of course, when not sniping at each other, they can snipe at Atheists.

 

[Zguy28]

Speaking as a former ("recovering" to use a more humorous term) Baptist, I'd say that there is a lot of time and energy wasted by Protestants, Catholics, and others - Baptists, of course, among them - on these fruitless arguments. This is time and energy better spent in reaching out to, or welcoming in, those who seek answers and ultimately Salvation. All this argument over dogma and doctrine and the like brings to mind the Pharisees and Sadducees of Biblical notoriety. Of course, when not sniping at each other, they can snipe at Atheists.

I think more times than not, the online forum is a BAD media for discussion (which quickly escalate into outright arguments).

 

[StoneThrower]

He was talking about a goal, one you undermined simply by your response.



Apparently you are dedicated to destruction or you wouldn't have been divisive in your response to Bird Dog who was speaking of Christianity in general.



Differentiating, divisive, same thing in this case don't you think? Stone Thrower got what he asked for by posting this thread, and you got what you asked for by bringing up your perceived dichotomy between faith and works.

As for anathema? Judging by your response, Protestants (and yes you Zguy) are still getting what they want. And, frankly, it's well deserved at this point. Congratulations.

What did I get? I must have missed something.
After I saw you didn’t have the intellect to have an intelligent conversation, I felt embarrassed for you and didn’t want to see you further humiliate yourself.
I dont see that I got anything.

 

[Radiant1]

What did I get? I must have missed something.
After I saw you didn’t have the intellect to have an intelligent conversation, I felt embarrassed for you and didn’t want to see you further humiliate yourself.
I dont see that I got anything.

Since I don't have the intellect to have an intelligent conversation, I shouldn't have to be the one to spell this out for you...

You got divisiveness, and as long as your faith is dependent upon anti-Catholicism, or "Romanists" if you prefer, you will continue to get it.

 

[StoneThrower]

You're right, I don't defend Protestants anymore than you defend the "Romanists who are Satanic and follow a false religion so will therefore burn in hell and in no way, shape or form your brother/sister". However, I don't shoot unity down when it's called for whether it be by a Catholic or a Protestant. In fact, I much rather enjoy those very rare threads.

In addition, if you haven't noticed, I don't pick on Protestants I merely defend my own faith when they (you) spread falsehoods about it. I don't think you can say the same.

If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it. :shrug:

There can be no unity between light and darkness, true and false. Why do you think there was so much to do, about signing the Manhattan Declaration it undermines the gospel! If people think we believe the same thing it harms the gospel. When it comes to salvation there is only one way.

Its not about being right or getting in the last word in, it’s just a constant reminder to those unsaved, and to those of the church of Rome or any other religious cult. You’re outside the camp and lost. I'd rather you hate me and my ilk rather than be a friend that silent allows you to die in your sin.

If you want to continue in it fine, that’s your choice, God saves people man doesn’t, but you can’t say no one ever told you the truth and your blood is on your hands not ours.

These post are not just for your sake but everyone on the board.

 

[StoneThrower]

I starting a fan club!

You have not condemned the Catholic Church but you have made misstatements.
You and I have never had large issues.

but....when some, who I call "Stripmall" preachers, who, if you checked their backgrounds and even listened to some of them, crawling "out of the gutter" is a badge of honor.
They do not concentrate on non-believers, they start attacking my faith and I will not let them get away with that, because I know who they are.
I only get fired up when they start condemning my faith.

I did not crawl out of the gutter and find Jesus and all sudden became holier than thou.
I was born Catholic, raised Catholic, raised my children as Catholics and thank God everyday for my faith.

So am I supposed remain silent and rob God of his honor and glory for saving me from my depravity? The fact that God saves anyone is a miracle when it happens. The fact that God use broken people what can I say, Jesus came from a human line of broken people.

Santification is a process of becoming more Holy until the day we die and become glorified. I am just a begger pointing another begger to bread.
I think you see just the oppsite, a wretch that knows they are a wretch and others that have yet to see theirself that way.

Until a man understands his total depravity, he will more than likely just accept Jesus into so closet of his heart or banty his name around like a fashion accessory, without ever dying to self at the foot of the cross.

 

[Railroad]

I know what I got - you argue tirelessly because....

you LIKE to.

 

[StoneThrower]

None...in this thread.



I already mentioned it, which you chose to ignore. Saved by grace. That's a start. Ironically, the Lutherans don't have problem with that but you do.




You're right, THAT will never happen. It always amuses me when Protestantism which is only 200 years old attempts to tell Catholicism which is 2000 years old and directly descended from Christ where it's at. As if.



I'm a Catholic convert educated in theology to some degree. I never attacked my former Protestant faith. In fact, I got good at apologetics because I was attacked for having converted Catholic. Go figure.

Face it, there is a strong line of anti-Catholicism in Protestantism. There has to be lest there'd be nothing for you to protest. It's a 200-year old polemic. As I asked Stone Thrower, is his faith dependent up on hating the Church? It certainly appears so.



And to think they're leading people and spreading their ignorance and hatred. That's scary #### right there.

No its not, I love people, and to have a religious organization like the RCC decieving people and being an agent of Satan bothers me! People are going to go to hell believing her lies, some none the wiser.

Some people never study the history of the church, and take everything they are told on faith, trusting in men for their souls. Some never study their Bibles or try to without the orignal languages. Hebrews 10 is a great example "a body you have prepared for me" to the unlearned is speaking of the incarnation, but careful study reveals its a synecdoche and body is just the way the Septuagint worded it. "Ears dug out for me." both understandings are ok in this case but not always. Why the writer of Hebrews used a greek translation is a question for another day.

My faith calls me to seek and save the lost those who are humble and truely seeking are approached with humility, those that are prideful with the 10 cannons of the law.