Will they go to heaven?

[bcp]

well if people believe the different interpretations, then for all intents and purposes there are three gods.

Unless he waltzes on down and says which is right, then they will continue worshiping their god in their way.

also, just because you say you've won a debate, doesn't make it so.

must be more than one bcp here then, because I for one never said I won a debate, I only said that there is no proof to substantiate the claims that there were three different Christian Gods referenced in this thread.

so, there must be more than one of me according to your weak stance on this.

once again for those that were licking the windows the first time.
because three different people interpret the word of ONE God three different ways, does not mean that there are three different Gods.
the argument is not over three Gods, but instead over three different interpretation of what the ONE God said.

please stop trying to be so dense when it comes to these things. Unless you are not trying, then I suggest maybe you seek help from a county program or something.

 

[Xaquin44]

must be more than one bcp here then, because I for one never said I won a debate, I only said that there is no proof to substantiate the claims that there were three different Christian Gods referenced in this thread.

so, there must be more than one of me according to your weak stance on this.

-sigh-

you said 'thanks for playing' which implies that the 'game' (in this case a debate) is over. Generally, games are over when one side wins. It isn't a huge stretch to see that you were declaring yourself winner of this debate.

once again for those that were licking the windows the first time.
because three different people interpret the word of ONE God three different ways, does not mean that there are three different Gods.
the argument is not over three Gods, but instead over three different interpretation of what the ONE God said.

please stop trying to be so dense when it comes to these things. Unless you are not trying, then I suggest maybe you seek help from a county program or something.

I didn't say there were three gods literally, I said 'for all intents and purposes' there are. If three different people believe in three seperate truths and attribute them to god, then there are three seperate versions. Is that the literal truth? No, of course not. Does it matter to the three who have garnered their own truths? Nope.

 

[Xaquin44]

Its kinda hard for him to claim "One Truth" when there are a couple of them floating in this thread alone

hehe

 

[bcp]

-sigh-

you said 'thanks for playing' which implies that the 'game' (in this case a debate) is over. Generally, games or over when one side wins. It isn't a huge stretch to see that you were declaring yourself winner of this debate.

It only implies that there is no future in arguing with someone that is not willing to back up their claims.

I didn't say there were three gods literally, I said 'for all intents and purposes' there are. If three different people believe in three seperate truths and attribute them to god, then there are three seperate versions. Is that the literal truth? No, of course not. Does it matter to the three who have garnered their own truths? Nope

I never claimed you said there were three different Christian Gods. Nucklehead is the one that said this.
He is also the one that is not able to point out where there are three different Christian Gods.
regardless of how one intereprets various laws set by God, it does not equate to making different Gods.

look at how many interpretations of the constitution there are, does that mean that we are pointing towards more than one group of founding fathers, or does it just mean that we are interpreting the words of one group in different ways.

 

[foodcritic]

Right

R1 is basing her position on the teaching of the Catholic Church, to which she belongs.

As for

Living as He wishes is spiritual exercise, just like someone who does physical exercise. Practicing your karate everyday means it's going to kick in when you need it, it becomes part of you. Same with prayer, and practicing the Will of God. If you can do His Will in small things, if you pray each day, it'll make it much more likely that you can remain close to Him and "store up your treasures in Heaven".

R1 pointed out that this is speculation on the part of some theologians.

The theology is that after the sin of Adam and Eve, God closed the doors of Heaven. They remained closed to all men until Jesus Christ's perfect obedience to the Will of the Father. (I must point out here to those who think God is a sadist: God did not Will His Son to die in the conventional sense, He Willed that His Son would be obedient even unto death.) A holy priest said this once and it has stuck with me ever since. I think there is a huge misunderstanding that comes with thinking that God sent His Son to die. I'm sure some will disagree, but it is only my opinion.
Now Heaven is open to all men, jungle or not, believer or not. That does not mean everyone will go to Heaven, but only God can judge the motives of our hearts and all of the mitigating circumstances of our lives.

I agree with most of what u said.

Heaven is open to all BECAUSE that is what the bible tells us in several places, however the anaolgy is more like an invitation sent to the world, not everyone is going to RSVP. What happens when they decide on THAT day they want to come in. What will happen. I think the bible answers that question also. Some verses to chew on:
John 1:
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit


Acts 13:47
For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' "

 

[Xaquin44]

It only implies that there is no future in arguing with someone that is not willing to back up their claims.

You're the one falling flat here.

look at how many interpretations of the constitution there are, does that mean that we are pointing towards more than one group of founding fathers, or does it just mean that we are interpreting the words of one group in different ways.

The constitution isn't 'the one truth' though. It's job isn't to catalogue eternity or set up a system to attain favorable position for said eternity. They are two completely different documents and comparison between the two is dubious at best.

 

[camily]

I agree with most of what u said.

Heaven is open to all BECAUSE that is what the bible tells us in several places, however the anaolgy is more like an invitation sent to the world, not everyone is going to RSVP. What happens when they decide on THAT day they want to come in. What will happen. I think the bible answers that question also. Some verses to chew on:
John 1:
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit


Acts 13:47
For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' "

The thief on the cross joined Jesus in Heaven that day.
Luke 23
39 One of the criminals hanging there made fun of Jesus. He said, "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself! Save us!"

40 But the other criminal scolded him. "Don't you have any respect for God?" he said. "Remember, you are under the same sentence of death. 41 We are being punished fairly. We are getting just what our actions call for. But this man hasn't done anything wrong."

42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

43 Jesus answered him, "What I'm about to tell you is true. Today you will be with me in paradise."

 

[foodcritic]

Not really

Its kinda hard for him to claim "One Truth" when there are a couple of them floating in this thread alone

There is one absolute truth!
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Knucklehead your are hung up on human (faulty) opinion. The test of a person who is seeking or at least trying to have a rational discussion would be to actually sit down and read a text, chapter etc...and make an informed decision based on the context, historical understanding etc.
Basing one's opinions on snipets of annonymous people in a forum does not sound like a way to pursue an informed opinion. But that's just me.

 

[bcp]

You're the one falling flat here.



The constitution isn't 'the one truth' though. It's job isn't to catalogue eternity or set up a system to attain favorable position for said eternity. They are two completely different documents and comparison between the two is dubious at best.

due to your idiocy and your refusal to understand how wrong you are, you to can be dismissed.

when you understand the difference between what ONE GOD SAYS, and what THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE interpret those words as, then come back and play.

at that point you might be in a better position to try and argue religion.

 

[foodcritic]

You need to make sure we are defining things properly. Are you sure you are not talking about opinions?
We all have opinions. What we need to do is square are opinions against the Bible in proper context.

 

[camily]

It's not the same

The thief knew of Jesus (they were neighbors for a bit). He accepted Jesus, so he was allowed entry into Heaven.

The Amazonians havent had that luxury (at least until now), your comfortable with the thought of them being Screwed due to geography?

Oh no. I think if they have never heard of Jesus they get into heaven. Most all tribes believe in some sort of higher being. Just because they don't know the name Jesus doesn't mean they go to hell. JMO. What makes you think I said they'd be screwed?

 

[bcp]

And i'm pretty sure that BCP, Radiant, This_Person, Libby and SShrewberry will all tell you that they are squaring their belief against the Bible

lets try this again.
Jesus says he is the way.
Belief in Jesus Christ as your saviour and your way to heaven is the basis of Christianity.
no Jesus, no Christianity.

nowhere did Jesus say that you only had to believe in him if you heard of him and everyone else has a free ride to Heaven, He said, I am the light and the way, not I am one of the ways. THE WAY.

All Christians will belive in and understand that, they will know Jesus as their Saviour, and they will know God as the one true God. its very simple.

Even though I have a problem personally thinking that some tribal native somewhere is destined to hell because he does not know Jesus Christ, I have no choice but to think that is exactly what is going to happen. I hope I am wrong, but the Bible does not cause me to think it is.

there are different interpretations of verses, and stories and parables in the Bible, but the core belief in Jesus Christ as the saviour is what makes it Christianity. Christ/Christianity? ring any bells here?

Catholics believe they are the one true church and the only ones that will make it to heaven, other Christian churches disagree, but they all agree that Jesus is the way.

 

[bcp]

by the way, I am not 2A, but a higher compliment has never been given to me on these boards.
thank you.

 

[foodcritic]

Truth

And i'm pretty sure that BCP, Radiant, This_Person, Libby and SShrewberry will all tell you that they are squaring their belief against the Bible

Unlike them, I have cited bible verses to help establish that which I belive. I have not seen any from them OR you for that matter. So if your point is since everyone believes somthing diffrent threfore nothing can be considered true is a silly position.

Point of Exclusion
With the numerous religions in the world, how can Christians claim exclusivity? I am often asked this question in different settings. But I've always been fascinated by the fact that the Christian faith is the only one that seems to have this question posed. The truth is that every major religion in the world claims exclusivity, and every major religion in the world has a point of exclusion.

Hinduism, for example, is often represented as being the most tolerant and accepting of other faiths. That is just not true. All Hindus believe in two fundamental, uncompromising doctrines--the Law of Karma, and the belief in reincarnation. These will not be surrendered. In fact, Buddhism was born out of the rejection of two other very dogmatic claims of Hinduism. Buddha rejected the authority of the vedas and the caste system of Hinduism. The issue here is not who was right or wrong. The truth is that they were systemically different--both claiming rightness.

Islam, as you know, is very clearly an exclusive claim to God. A Muslim will never tell you that it doesn't matter what you believe or that all religions are true.

But before we get upset with such claims, let us remember that it is the very nature of truth that presents us with this reality. Truth by definition is exclusive. Everything cannot be true. If everything is true, then nothing is false. And if nothing is false then it would also be true to say everything is false. We cannot have it both ways. One should not be surprised at the claims of exclusivity. The reality is that even those who deny truth's exclusivity, in effect, exclude those who do not deny it. The truth quickly emerges. The law of non-contradiction does apply to reality: Two contradictory statements cannot both be true in the same sense.

Thus, to deny the law of non-contradiction is to affirm it at the same time. You may as well talk about a one-ended stick as talk about truth being all-inclusive.

So where does that leave us? We must not be surprised at truth claims but we must test them before we believe them. If the test demonstrates truth then we are morally compelled to believe it. And this is precisely the point from which many are trying to run. As G.K. Chesterton said, the problem with Christianity is not that it has been tried and found wanting, but that it has been found difficult and left untried.

Christ is either the immeasurable God or one dreadfully lost. Apply the tests of truth to the person and the message of Jesus Christ. You see not only his exclusivity, but also his uniqueness.

Ravi Zacharias is founder and president of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries.

Author: Ravi Zacharias

 

[Xaquin44]

Apply the tests of truth to the person and the message of Jesus Christ. You see not only his exclusivity, but also his uniqueness.

what tests are these?

 

[foodcritic]

He's not (for everyone), obviously otherwise there wouldnt be the varied and different beliefs or unbeliefs.

Hence, your Non-contradiction problem.....I don't think you read the post.

 

[libby]

Catholics believe they are the one true church and the only ones that will make it to heaven, other Christian churches disagree, but they all agree that Jesus is the way.

Whoa there! Wrong! Catholics believe that what-is-today-called the Catholic Church was indeed the church instituted by Christ, however, nowhere does the RCC state that only Catholics will go to Heaven.
I, for one, completely agree with Nucklesack's assesment of the situation. There is no way Christians can witness to one Truth when there are a multiplicity of interpretations of Scripture.

 

[wxtornado]

So, is anyone keeping score?

 

[Xaquin44]

So, is anyone keeping score?

we're winning.

 

[wxtornado]

Even though I have a problem personally thinking that some tribal native somewhere is destined to hell because he does not know Jesus Christ, I have no choice but to think that is exactly what is going to happen.

And yet you worship this god who would condemn someone to hell even if he's never heard of jesus?