S
shiki
Guest
seriously tho...why would they even want to get into "heaven"? Most people I know aren't much interested in "heaven"
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Will they go to heaven?
- Thread starter wxtornado
- Start date
Xaquin44
New Member
that doesn't even make sense.
It's not like they'll wake up one day and say "Jesus! That's what my life has been missing!"
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
Yeah, it happens,(or does happen much like that), because He reached out to me, kind of like the same way, one day - 10 years ago in my church - and I have not stopped attending every Sunday that I can make it.
foodcritic
New Member
You are a little off
I don't know why you bring this up, but anyway...What does the Bible say?
We are all sinners...and it is our sin that (properly) condems us. A just God MUST punish sin. Having said that we are all sinners. We are no different in our sinful state then those tribal peoples.
Yes, with out faith in God and in the sacrifice of his Son (which pays the price of our sin basically the punishment) we can not enter heaven.
So God hates sin and judges it. Loves people and provides a way out. Will every one find the way out....probably not. (Narrow is the way to eternal life and wide is the road to destruction).
But the bible does say the "the heavens declare the glory of the Lord".
The faithful in the OT were saved by what Christ does on the cross (thousands of years later). Christians today are saved by what Christ did on the cross (thousands of years ago).
I dont think I have a good answer other that Jesus words to go make disciples and preach the gospel.
I don't know why you bring this up, but anyway...What does the Bible say?
We are all sinners...and it is our sin that (properly) condems us. A just God MUST punish sin. Having said that we are all sinners. We are no different in our sinful state then those tribal peoples.
Yes, with out faith in God and in the sacrifice of his Son (which pays the price of our sin basically the punishment) we can not enter heaven.
So God hates sin and judges it. Loves people and provides a way out. Will every one find the way out....probably not. (Narrow is the way to eternal life and wide is the road to destruction).
But the bible does say the "the heavens declare the glory of the Lord".
The faithful in the OT were saved by what Christ does on the cross (thousands of years later). Christians today are saved by what Christ did on the cross (thousands of years ago).
I dont think I have a good answer other that Jesus words to go make disciples and preach the gospel.
foodcritic
New Member
what are u basing your opinion on?
I have no idea what you said. By what are you basing your opinion?
The bible isn't crucial to basic moral behavior. I believe that every man is born with certain morals in their heart, either via the soul or what have you. Even ancient civilizations had some form of morals with rules/laws and experienced love and beauty.
Tx - IMO, if a jungle man is ignorant of Christ to no fault of his own, and lives a life as dictated by the morals written in his heart, then he may obtain heaven. Perhaps not easily but it is possible. Jesus opened the gates of heaven, so even if a man didn't know of Jesus it is still by the merits of Jesus that he obtains it. So why preach Jesus? Because it makes living a moral life easier and allows a man to liver closer to human perfection, and therefore heaven more readily obtainable. It has been supposed by some theologians that there are layers (if you will) of heaven, and perhaps the jungle man won't obtain the highest realm of heaven whereas the good Christian man would.
Just some thoughts to further discussion.
I have no idea what you said. By what are you basing your opinion?
camily
Peace
They must use color to distinguish rank of some sort. There's red, yellow/brown, and black it looks like.
camily
Peace
I find this fascinating! More pics here.
Uncontacted Tribes Discovered In Brazil (PHOTOS) - Living on The Huffington Post
Uncontacted Tribes Discovered In Brazil (PHOTOS) - Living on The Huffington Post
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
Originally Posted by Radiant1
The bible isn't crucial to basic moral behavior. I believe that every man is born with certain morals in their heart, either via the soul or what have you. Even ancient civilizations had some form of morals with rules/laws and experienced love and beauty.
Tx - IMO, if a jungle man is ignorant of Christ to no fault of his own, and lives a life as dictated by the morals written in his heart, then he may obtain heaven. Perhaps not easily but it is possible. Jesus opened the gates of heaven, so even if a man didn't know of Jesus it is still by the merits of Jesus that he obtains it. So why preach Jesus? Because it makes living a moral life easier and allows a man to liver closer to human perfection, and therefore heaven more readily obtainable. It has been supposed by some theologians that there are layers (if you will) of heaven, and perhaps the jungle man won't obtain the highest realm of heaven whereas the good Christian man would.
Just some thoughts to further discussion.
Scripture tells us, I think in Revelations, that He will not return until all mankind has heard the Word ie., - Jesus Christ.
When that time comes, then He will return.
We had better be ready, or so it is foretold. Question is: Are we ready chance that it is not a true philosophy?
The bible isn't crucial to basic moral behavior. I believe that every man is born with certain morals in their heart, either via the soul or what have you. Even ancient civilizations had some form of morals with rules/laws and experienced love and beauty.
Tx - IMO, if a jungle man is ignorant of Christ to no fault of his own, and lives a life as dictated by the morals written in his heart, then he may obtain heaven. Perhaps not easily but it is possible. Jesus opened the gates of heaven, so even if a man didn't know of Jesus it is still by the merits of Jesus that he obtains it. So why preach Jesus? Because it makes living a moral life easier and allows a man to liver closer to human perfection, and therefore heaven more readily obtainable. It has been supposed by some theologians that there are layers (if you will) of heaven, and perhaps the jungle man won't obtain the highest realm of heaven whereas the good Christian man would.
Just some thoughts to further discussion.
Scripture tells us, I think in Revelations, that He will not return until all mankind has heard the Word ie., - Jesus Christ.
When that time comes, then He will return.
We had better be ready, or so it is foretold. Question is: Are we ready chance that it is not a true philosophy?
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foodcritic
New Member
Your missing the point.
Let me clarify no one has all the answers. The bible sure does provide many of the answers to the questions here.
Did the old testement practice of animal sacrifice satisfy God? NO
How do we know this ....the Bible:
Hebrews 10 1-11 1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.' "[a] 8First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
These types of discussions actually require discussion and CONTEXT of bible verses. Not the bumper sticker stuff that people use to try to make points.
Let me clarify no one has all the answers. The bible sure does provide many of the answers to the questions here.
Did the old testement practice of animal sacrifice satisfy God? NO
How do we know this ....the Bible:
Hebrews 10 1-11 1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.' "[a] 8First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
These types of discussions actually require discussion and CONTEXT of bible verses. Not the bumper sticker stuff that people use to try to make points.
Xaquin44
New Member
Yeah, it happens,(or does happen much like that), because He reached out to me, kind of like the same way, one day - 10 years ago in my church - and I have not stopped attending every Sunday that I can make it.
I see ....
ummmm which undiscovered amazon tribe were you from?
how did you get internet access there?
Xaquin44
New Member
woah hey
I wasn't the one that said the bible said that. In fact I thought the idea was crazy myself. Talk to the other christians (you know, the ones who know the bible (well .... except in this instance. but I'm sure they have everything else right.))
heh
foodcritic
New Member
We all live according to some standard
What you are saying is the we should all do what ever feels good ....
I cant belive that some people don't see some objective reality of TRUTH. We see it everyday in our interactions with people. We are happy when someone is kind and are upset when people are mean..Why.??
Here is what the Bible says about your theory:
Romans 3
God's Faithfulness
1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.
3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
"So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."[a]
5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.
No One is Righteous
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]
19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
What you are saying is the we should all do what ever feels good ....
I cant belive that some people don't see some objective reality of TRUTH. We see it everyday in our interactions with people. We are happy when someone is kind and are upset when people are mean..Why.??
Here is what the Bible says about your theory:
Romans 3
God's Faithfulness
1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.
3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
"So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."[a]
5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.
No One is Righteous
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]
19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
foodcritic
New Member
Ok
Woah Hey.....
So basically, what you are saying is, you basing your opinions/understanding on what people tell you instead of reading and searching it out yourself....
Woah Hey.....
So basically, what you are saying is, you basing your opinions/understanding on what people tell you instead of reading and searching it out yourself....
camily
Peace
Woah Hey.....
So basically, what you are saying is, you basing your opinions/understanding on what people tell you instead of reading and searching it out yourself....
It's Noah, not Woah.
Xaquin44
New Member
Woah Hey.....
So basically, what you are saying is, you basing your opinions/understanding on what people tell you instead of reading and searching it out yourself....
not at all ....
I was mostly just (sarcastically) pointing out that your christian views and other christian views on this differ.
Also I'm inwardly chortling at how many 'one' truths there seem to be.
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
It's rather obvious that you have not attempted to reach out to the Lord yet.
I'll say a prayer for people like you, that maybe someday you'll get to know Him. He is there, waiting for you to ask. Good luck, and may God bless you.
R1 is basing her position on the teaching of the Catholic Church, to which she belongs.
R1 is basing her position on the teaching of the Catholic Church, to which she belongs.
As for
Living as He wishes is spiritual exercise, just like someone who does physical exercise. Practicing your karate everyday means it's going to kick in when you need it, it becomes part of you. Same with prayer, and practicing the Will of God. If you can do His Will in small things, if you pray each day, it'll make it much more likely that you can remain close to Him and "store up your treasures in Heaven".
R1 pointed out that this is speculation on the part of some theologians.
The theology is that after the sin of Adam and Eve, God closed the doors of Heaven. They remained closed to all men until Jesus Christ's perfect obedience to the Will of the Father. (I must point out here to those who think God is a sadist: God did not Will His Son to die in the conventional sense, He Willed that His Son would be obedient even unto death.) A holy priest said this once and it has stuck with me ever since. I think there is a huge misunderstanding that comes with thinking that God sent His Son to die. I'm sure some will disagree, but it is only my opinion.
Now Heaven is open to all men, jungle or not, believer or not. That does not mean everyone will go to Heaven, but only God can judge the motives of our hearts and all of the mitigating circumstances of our lives.