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toppick08
Guest
Dinner on the grounds for all..........
Starman3000m
New Member
Jesus prophesied He would be in the earth three days and three nights.
So what happened to the third night mentioned by Jesus in Matthew, Chapter 12?
Here is the account:
Matthew, Ch. 12, verses:
38: Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39: But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(following is an excerpt of article)
Did Christ Fulfill His Sign?
"Now all this is based on the supposition that Jesus did fulfill His only sign of being three days and three nights in the grave. All our evidence is based on the claims of Jesus before His crucifixion. But some of the higher critics and doctors of divinity tell us that Jesus made a mistake—that He was only in the tomb half as long as He expected to be. Let us have proof as to whether He did spend the exact amount of time in the grave He said He would.
Notice that in Matthew 28:6, the angel of the Lord gives this testimony, which we now present as evidence. "He is not here: for he is risen, as he said." And He certainly did not rise AS He said unless He rose at the precise TIME that He had said! So we have the proof of the angel of the Lord, recorded in the sacred Word of God that Jesus did fulfill His sign—He was three days and three nights in the earth—He did rise Sabbath afternoon, and not on Sunday morning by Gregorian time clocks.
Another proof that Christ was in the grave the full length of time He expected to be is found in I Corinthians 15:3-4: "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."
His death and burial were according to the Scriptures—not contrary to them.
The third day following His Wednesday burial was the Sabbath; three full days spent in the grave ended Saturday afternoon just prior to sunset, not Sunday morning.
Which Day Was the Crucifixion?
Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, the middle day of the week. He died shortly after 3 p.m. that afternoon; was buried before sunset Wednesday evening. Now count the three days and three nights. His body was Wednesday, Thursday and Friday nights in the grave—three nights. It also was there through the daylight part of Thursday, Friday and Saturday—three days. He rose Saturday the Sabbath—late afternoon, shortly before sunset, at the same time of day that He was buried!
It is significant that in Daniel's prophecy of the "seventy weeks" (Daniel 9:24-27), Jesus was to be cut off "in the midst of the week." While this prophecy has the application of a day for a year, so that this 70th week became a literal seven years, Christ being "cut off" after three-and-a-half years' ministry, as He was, yet it is significant that He was also "cut off" on the middle day of a literal week."
Note: The info in the article expounds at greater length in the following link if you'd care to read it.
My Caveat: Although I have questioned the author's stand on other biblical views (what's new) this explanation makes sense from a Jewish perspective and since Jesus was Jewish and the High Holy Day of Jewish Passover was at the time of Christ's crucifixion it stands to reason that there would have been two (2) Holy days during that specific week in time - as the article explains. Thus, Christ fulfills His literal three days and three nights prophecy. Also, the Jewish Sabbath period ends at dusk (late Saturday afternoon) and the first day of the week would begin after dusk Saturday; not 12:00.01 am Sunday morning as measured by Gregorian time clocks.
The Resurrection Was Not on Sunday
More: from a Jewish perspective:
In the Biblical calendar, a new day starts at the beginning of sunset, and ends at the end of the next sunset, approximately 25 hours later. This is because in the Torah, in the book of Bereshiyt (Genesis) the days of creation are described as "and the evening and the morning were the ___ day." However, "sunset" is not a moment in time, a specific instant which we can look out our window and say has come. Because of the importance of the Sabbath (and other ordained festivals) it is imperative that all preparations and other normal-day activities be complete by the beginning of sunset. The Sabbath then ends at the end of sunset the next day, creating a day of approximately 25 hours. Because of this, the Sabbath candles, marking the end of the workweek (and the last moment that a fire may be kindled in the home) are lit 18 minutes before the "astronomical" sunset, and the havdalah ceremony marking the beginning of the workweek takes place 42 minutes after the next sunset.
BASIC SABBATH RULES
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ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Please show me purgatory in the Bible. Thanks.
Not adhering to the Bible is the problem. 66 books; no more, no less.
You can't put God in a box Libby. God can speak to anyone without the Bible. He doesn't need Fedex, UPS, internet or even us really. One way He can reach people who don't have TV, radio, printed media, Bibles, etc., is through created things and by "impressing" His Spirit on theirs. He can cause dreams & visions and mind to mind communication.
No Protestants I know believe that. Hopefully they can spell better too.
There's more than one or two here.
How bout this Highlander, old buddy:
How can 3 folks in Southern Maryland be sooooooo hardheaded and refuse the truth so much? With all the studying and practicing of religion going on for a very long time, you'd think they get it by now.:shrug:
Only God can change the mind of a hardened, indoctrinated person. He did it with me. You 3 need to "let go and let God". Put all man made teachings second and ask God to open your eyes to the truth. Tell Him you're willing to forsake whatever hinders your mind from hearing His words then watch what He'll do.
The RCC IS NOT the "true church" as you say and you need to get over that. The devil loves people who put man's teachings over God's.
Catholics were not taught to go home every day and deeply study the Bible. Why? Because they might find out the truth and leave it as I did. I know this hurts your ears but my testimony about it is powerful. Remember I was raised in an ALL Italian family with all the Mafia looking and Catholic believing relatives all around me.
My Mom once told me, after I got saved in 1989, that I was the only Italian in the world who isn't Catholic anymore. I told her and Dad what happened when I got saved and they liked what they heard. They still remained Catholics but to a lesser degree. No more confessions, no more church on Holydays of obligation, no more praying to dead saints. When they saw me running a church service and preaching from the pulpit on Sunday, they were very proud! I even shed a tear seeing them in my congregation on Sunday.
God is NOT a church nor a set of beliefs. He is a living and personable being who wants an intimate, personal relationship with each one of us. All those divisive, denominational differences trouble Him. He wants our hearts and minds to love Him as He loves us. Ask him into you lives today; He's waiting for you with open arms.
Just like computer memory's, our lives can get cluttered up with man made CRAP! We need to delete and defragment them and fill them with the peace of God and forget those denominational teachings that hinder you.
Re-read the thread. If you two start to answer my questions, perhaps I'll send more evidence. You can't have a discussion with people who insist on being right and insist everyone else is wrong. The least you guys could do is acknowledge that therre are actually legitimate reasons why thoughtful people believe as they do; even atheists. If faith is a gift, how can you call us "hard-headed" who haven't been given the gift, so to speak.
Starman3000m
New Member
libby, could you please stop for a moment and see that you are not really defending your personal faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and Saviour of all mankind; you are defending faith in the Roman Catholic Church. That is a religious indoctrination that claims you have to be one of their members in order to have the "true" teaching of God. That is no different than Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Muslims, etc who claim their religious indoctrination is the one with exclusivity on the truth of God.
There is nothing in the Holy Bible that supports the RCC doctrine of "purgatory" it occurs only when the RCC adds their supplemental literature to explain its stand and many many people don't question it.
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WRONG! I believe that Christ is the head of the Church (Col 1; 18), and that the Church and Christ are One. I repeatedly say RCC so as to differentiate from your theology, and to defend the Church from the attacks individuals make on her.
The Church (hear Christ) is the pillar and bulwark of Truth. (1 Tim. 3:15)
Christ said the relationship between husband and wife is supposed to reflect that of Christ and His Church, as laid out in Eph. 5. We know that in marriage, "the two shall become one", and that oneness, that unity, is supposed to reflect the supernatural unity of Christ and His Church. In an ideal world, I think we would both agree, that husband and wife would, indeed, be "one" in belief, in deed, etc, especially in regards to raising children. Christ and His Church are that "ideal" marriage, and we are the "children" of that mystical union. The husband (Christ) and wife (Church) are unified in the raising of the children (us).
Gotta go bake some pies for company... but I'm sure I'll be back.
Starman3000m
New Member
libby, you are still only defending the position of what the RCC claims; that it is the "church" that the Bible refers to which "began with Peter" and whereby the pope continues being the spokesman for God. That is Not True.
The True Church that Jesus will gather is the spiritual church that encompasses any and all believers who have professed Him as Lord and Saviour and who have been born-again through the Divine Intervention of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is sent to indwell the life of the believer and is the only source of strength that brings us to a closer relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus said, that one must be born again of the Holy Spirit in order to enter the Kingdom of God and that the Kingdom of God is not a church made with hands but that the Kingdom is within the believer.
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:20-21)
The "Church" that the Holy Bible refers to is not a physical entity on this earth; it is the spiritual entity of God's Holy Spirit uniting believers whose sole faith is placed in the Atoning Blood of Christ and whose lives have been changed through the regenerative power of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God.
Sure, the RCC will tell you otherwise just like the other religions tell their followers. And they believe their church leaders more than the Word of God as written in the Holy Bible. This is exactly what Jesus contended with when He preached the Gospel of The Kingdom of God and was rejected by those who, by their religious mind-set, could not be set free from their religious concepts, rituals and traditions that they believed were needed to earn their salvation.
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Bavarian
New Member
Purgatory is noted in 2 Macc 12:46
mAlice
professional daydreamer
Do you think you are the only one who has read the Bible through and through? Do you think you are the only one who has prayed? I have spent many hours praying, and God has revealed to me so many beautiful truths, and guess what? are found in the Catholic Church. I was not indoctrinated (as a matter of fact, post Vatican II Catholics were barely catechized at all)
Catholics can go to Mass every single day and hear Scripture read. Every single word of the Mass is found in Scripture, so it is totally disingenuous of you to accuse the Catholic Church of not using the word of God.
More later....
Starman3000m
New Member
Read some of my earllier posts libby. I have often said that many of the denominations who claim to be "the true church" reference the Holy Bible as a means of legitimizing their doctrines. Many then use supplemental teachings and "inspired" text from their own religious leaders to use as liturgy and methods of keeping their flock controlled by that specific doctrine.
Yes, the RCC uses text from the Holy Bible, the Word of God, but so do the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Branch Davidians, Jim Jones cult, and many others who have claimed to have the only truth. The RCC and the Vatican would never tell their followers that all that is needed for True Doctrine is found exclusively in the Holy Bible and nowhere else - nothing to be added or taken away. Same as the other denominations would not say that.
The RCC is no different in that claim of exclusivity, else the Vatican would comprehend the Bible based teachings of not just the Protestant Reformation but Evangelical/non-denominational believers in Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Saviour. Sure, there are religious leaders who take over congregations and go off track with unsound Biblical principles by taking verses out of context. That has happened throughout the ages and it is exactly what Jesus warned His followers to be aware of. Many organized religions are based on some Biblical Truth which means the other parts of their teachings are not true. Sorry, libby, but again you are defending a man-made religious denomination ( I don't care how large it is) which claims to have exclusivity to the "keys" to the Kingdom of God. Various popes have said as much and declared all other "religions" deficient and heretical. I do not question whether you are born-again, only God knows, but I do question the tenets of the RCC which are not at all scriptural, i.e., "purgatory", indulgences, priests being able to absolve the sins of a person, infant baptism into the RCC faith, priests not being allowed to marry, the pope's claim to be the "leader of Christendom", etc. But all of this is for another thread. On the second thought, however, there is no real point because you will continue to believe what you wish and I will continue to maintain that the Holy Bible contains all Truth exclusively in regard to the former Old Covenant requirements and the New Covenant between God and mankind.
There is no need to be a bonafide, card-carrying member of any denominational church in order to receive the Free Gift of God which is Forgiveness and Eternal Life through the Atoning Blood of His Son, Jesus Christ as declared in the Holy Bible. That is God's Promise and nothing can replace that Truth which is the Rock of Salvation.
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And you have completely and utterly failed to repudiate anything I have put forth. You read what you want to read in the Bible and preach that everything else is "out of context", or mis-interpreted; only you have come to full knowledge of the truth in your "personal relationship".
The evidence for personal interpretation is against you. The evidence for an "invisibile church" made up out of believers such as yourself is against you. That there is not even unity among Bible Christians re: doctrines/practices/disciplines strikes at the very heart of "personal interpretation"; the sheep are scattered.
Go ahead, believe what you will, but remember one last thing.
The Word of God is not something, it is someone, Jesus Christ. You idolize the paper, ink and binding all you want. I'll stick with the only Begotten Son of God.
The evidence for personal interpretation is against you. The evidence for an "invisibile church" made up out of believers such as yourself is against you. That there is not even unity among Bible Christians re: doctrines/practices/disciplines strikes at the very heart of "personal interpretation"; the sheep are scattered.
Go ahead, believe what you will, but remember one last thing.
The Word of God is not something, it is someone, Jesus Christ. You idolize the paper, ink and binding all you want. I'll stick with the only Begotten Son of God.
Starman3000m
New Member
C'mon, libby, All of the extra tenets of RCC doctrine are also comprised of paper, ink and binding that the RCC indoctrinates its followers with.
And, please consider your words when you speak about "idolize".
Do you, or any parishioner, ever kneel to statues of Mary and the RCC patron saints? Is that not idolatry in the form that counters what the Holy Bible states about statues? Do you, or any parishioner, ever bow to or kneel before a priest who is not and never can be the one who can truly administer God's forgiveness to anyone?
Enough said, libby, this has gone way off topic of the original subject and intent of this thread. You will believe what you wish and that is your choice.
If you want to start another thread where you can defend the RCC all you want, please do so. I'll leave it to the Holy Spirit of God to reveal the Truth about the RCC, the papacy and all that the church claims in its out-of-context claim to be the "true church" in which Peter was the first pope.
As I said, you have ignored every Scripture quote I have given you. 'Nuff said.
Well, Bob, for Christians it is important. And theology has nothing to do with who is a better Christian.
I have said repeatedly that I believe anyone on an honest search will get to Heaven. And I have also said that I will defend the Catholic Church against anyone who tries to put for falsities about it.
I have no notions that anyone will convert.
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toppick08
Guest
relax..........he is a Methodist..
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libby.You and I will see each other one day..
Highlander
ONE NATION UNDER GOD
relax..........he is a Methodist..
You and I will see each other one day..
What flavor of Protesant are Starman and ItalianS?
Bible Christians.
T
