Paranoid America
- Thread starter forestal
- Start date
Honestly, despite the terror attacks on US soil.... is the fear justified? Statistically the odds of being killed in a terror attack are lower than winning the lottery. We're all more likely to be killed by a firearm held by one of our own countrymen, or a drunk driver, but we let our buddies do it or do it ourselves, or obesity induced diabetes and/or heart problems. 
This is yellow peril, and red menace hysteria all over again. Are we supposed to just incarcerate people who just "might" happen to somehow be bad guys? Ask the japanese decended AMERICAN CITIZENS who were herded into camps because of the same ignorant fear. This kind of hallucinatory "fear" is just what the terrorist AND the government want you to experience. Its easier to get you to go along with unpopular plans if you somehow think bad guys are behind every tree and airplane seat.
This is yellow peril, and red menace hysteria all over again. Are we supposed to just incarcerate people who just "might" happen to somehow be bad guys? Ask the japanese decended AMERICAN CITIZENS who were herded into camps because of the same ignorant fear. This kind of hallucinatory "fear" is just what the terrorist AND the government want you to experience. Its easier to get you to go along with unpopular plans if you somehow think bad guys are behind every tree and airplane seat.
PsyOps
Pixelated
forestal said:
I see, the American public, as a whole, is stupid because the all-mighty and wise Forestal said so...
I wonder how stupid you would be calling the American public if those Arabs, speaking in their native language, were talking about their plans to blow that plane up, did blow it up and crashed it to the ground killing eveyone on board.
D@mn stupid Americans.
PsyOps
Pixelated
Kerad said:
That's not the point.
The point is...I guess...that since 9/11, being suspicious of every Muslim on a plane is "natural".
I understand...and I don't argue that.
However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...
Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?
There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.
What should we do about them?
Because that happened once. This world has experienced multiple hijackings by Muslims, countless bombings by Muslims, countless beheadings by Mulsims, and mulitple attacks on Americans (world wide) by Muslims.
I can't believe things have to be spelled out for you.
Okay, nevermind.... yes I can.
PsyOps
Pixelated
CAPPY2609 said:Honestly, despite the terror attacks on US soil.... is the fear justified? Statistically the odds of being killed in a terror attack are lower than winning the lottery. We're all more likely to be killed by a firearm held by one of our own countrymen, or a drunk driver, but we let our buddies do it or do it ourselves, or obesity induced diabetes and/or heart problems.
Could it be because of the very vigilance Americans are using in this case that the statistics are what you claim? Ever consider that?
Once again, ever consider that if we hadn’t “herded” the Japanese into camps that many of them may have turned out to be supporting the Japanese effort? Have you considered this, as ugly as that decision may appear, saved this country from an internal attack? There was nothing hallucinatory about those 19 that WERE ignored, that capitalized on our complacency and ignorance. I would rather operate on a premise of vigilant “hallucinatory fear” than unadulterated ignorance and complacency. Seems some of you would prefer to return to those days believing that if we just pretend the problem doesn’t exist, it will just go away. Ever turn your back on a rabid dog?
If you stop believing they are behind every tree and airplane seat, then they will be. Isn’t this why you lock up your house before you go to bed?
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PsyOps
Pixelated
forestal said:
Oh, so now it's a racial thing. You know, I heard you lefties state, time and time again, that Iraq wasn't worth our sacrifice. Can I imply that it's because of their skin color that makes them less worthy of freedom?
Oh and, please explain what's more irrational
1) Your obsessive fear that Bush is coming to get you
or
2) Our fear that we may experience another attack by Arabs.
The title of this thread that you started is "Paranoid America" and it's quite evident who is paranoid.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
They were NOT...
...ignored, at all. The flight schools had reported them. The FBI was looking into them. The CIA and military intel were on them.
Now, the CIA and miltary intel are forbidden to operate on US soil. So, they passed on what they had to the FBI.
The FBI was investigating these guys. The FBI saw reason for more investigation. The FBI asked for surveillance and wanted to go ahck their computers. The FBI's lawyers said 'no'; you can not use intel gathered by the CIA/,mil intel. It is not legal. The FBI sought a ruling from Justice.
Justice, in the person of Janet Reno assistant or deputy AG or whatever, Jamie Gorelick, wrote a memo reaffirming the legal 'wall' between the left hand, the CIA, and the right hand, the FBI.
The FBI was out of business on Atta and the others. They were not ignored. They were not missed. They weren't sneaking around undetected.
Quite a few people in the FBI, CIA and other places watched 9/11 unfold with a certain grim, ill feeling frustration of "I told you so".
Gorelick went on to serve, insanely, on the 9/11 commission.
In short, we do not need to be living with all the fear mongering that goes on these days. We just need to let people do their jobs and remove unreasonable roadblocks in their path. The Patriot act did much of this.
PsyOps said:
...ignored, at all. The flight schools had reported them. The FBI was looking into them. The CIA and military intel were on them.
Now, the CIA and miltary intel are forbidden to operate on US soil. So, they passed on what they had to the FBI.
The FBI was investigating these guys. The FBI saw reason for more investigation. The FBI asked for surveillance and wanted to go ahck their computers. The FBI's lawyers said 'no'; you can not use intel gathered by the CIA/,mil intel. It is not legal. The FBI sought a ruling from Justice.
Justice, in the person of Janet Reno assistant or deputy AG or whatever, Jamie Gorelick, wrote a memo reaffirming the legal 'wall' between the left hand, the CIA, and the right hand, the FBI.
The FBI was out of business on Atta and the others. They were not ignored. They were not missed. They weren't sneaking around undetected.
Quite a few people in the FBI, CIA and other places watched 9/11 unfold with a certain grim, ill feeling frustration of "I told you so".
Gorelick went on to serve, insanely, on the 9/11 commission.
In short, we do not need to be living with all the fear mongering that goes on these days. We just need to let people do their jobs and remove unreasonable roadblocks in their path. The Patriot act did much of this.
MMDad
Lem Putt
Kerad said:
When is the last time you drove on Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House?
The steps taken in 1995 because of "rednecks" in Ryder trucks are still in place. You either ignore them or are blissfully unaware since they aren't in the news.
Pulling people speaking arabic off the planes is ridiculous because all passengers should have been fully screened long before they ever get to the gate, much less onboard the plane. Unfortunately, we have a public that wants 100% security but isn't willing to give up their privacy. We have three choices: 1. Give up flying. 2. Give up our privacy and allow effective screening. 3. Live with the current imperfect system that doesn't really work and offends liberals.
I vote for choice two, but I have nothing to hide.
CRoyal
Infinite Impetus
forestal said:
We should ABSOLUTELY be questioning these people on our aircrafts. They themselves have worked for and EARNED their reputation. Always to be better safe than sorry given the recent history.
I agree that it may be blown out of proportion at time, but so what? Always take precaution no matter how sensitive someone may be to it. Deal with it. It is in the name of safety and peace of mind for our citizens.
As for the Mcveigh talk, COMPLETLEY IRRELAVANT. 100% has no bearing or relation to the topic at hand.
What I don't understand is how libs can demand that Bush keep us safe, yet they don't want reasonable precautions because they're "racist" or discriminatory.MMDad said:
PsyOps
Pixelated
Larry Gude said:
... aka ignored. I don't think I need to raise the issue of Able Danger. An attempt to warn the Clinton admin about Atta and gang was ignored. In fact, so much so, that it was passed on to Bush in a memo. Memo ignored! Although, in Bush's defense, he was only given less than 7 months to analyze, verify and act on this MEMO.
When we experienced attack after attack during the 90s, culminate this with the Able Danger warning.......... the whole threat was downplayed and ignored.
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PsyOps
Pixelated
Larry Gude said:
Our government is asking us to be vigilent; be watching for suspicious activity. You can either sit back and wait for the government to fix their roadblocks or be a participant in stopping a future attack. You know they are planning one. Everyone knows it. Whenever these things happen this is in the backs of our minds.
Are you going to tell me when you get on an airplane and you hear a bunch of guys yapping about in Arabic that you aren't going to watch them more carefully than if there were a bunch of Koreans doing the same?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
A difference...
...with a distinction.
When we ignore a problem like a leaky roof we don't do anything about it and don't even know how extensive the problem is. A hole? Stopped up gutters?
Atta and company, the work was being done. The Feds were on the job, standing by, on the roof, so to speak, saws and supplies in hand, looking right at the problem. We, our leaders, said "Nah, let it go."
Point is we do not need a constant state of fear for them to have done their jobs then nor to do their jobs now.
PsyOps said:
...with a distinction.
When we ignore a problem like a leaky roof we don't do anything about it and don't even know how extensive the problem is. A hole? Stopped up gutters?
Atta and company, the work was being done. The Feds were on the job, standing by, on the roof, so to speak, saws and supplies in hand, looking right at the problem. We, our leaders, said "Nah, let it go."
Point is we do not need a constant state of fear for them to have done their jobs then nor to do their jobs now.
Mikeinsmd
New Member
Where do you get your statistics bozo?CAPPY2609 said:Honestly, despite the terror attacks on US soil.... is the fear justified? Statistically the odds of being killed in a terror attack are lower than winning the lottery. We're all more likely to be killed by a firearm held by one of our own countrymen, or a drunk driver, but we let our buddies do it or do it ourselves, or obesity induced diabetes and/or heart problems.
This is yellow peril, and red menace hysteria all over again. Are we supposed to just incarcerate people who just "might" happen to somehow be bad guys? Ask the japanese decended AMERICAN CITIZENS who were herded into camps because of the same ignorant fear. This kind of hallucinatory "fear" is just what the terrorist AND the government want you to experience. Its easier to get you to go along with unpopular plans if you somehow think bad guys are behind every tree and airplane seat.
Go back out to the barn and finish your tryst with the sheep.
aps45819 said:
You do realize that pearl harbor was a valid military target and there was a major war ath the time, and its death toll was only slightly lower than 9/11. Hysteria once again. You can apply this physical description theory to anyone or any group. Blondes are sluts, fat people are lazy, red heads are feisty, all black people in groups are gangs, all hispanics are illegals, all irish are drunks, all polish are dumb, and the list goes on.
But based the one persons ignorance, an entire flight was cancelled. Again, one of my own "beloved" fellow citizens is more likely to kill me and my kid on your way back from the bar than any terrorist will. Last year, 17,448 were killed in alcohol-related crashes. Wheres your outrage and vigilance when it f**king matters?
PsyOps
Pixelated
Larry Gude said:
When you culminate this with all the previous attacks and threats and the Able Danger warning, the entire problem was ignored by the Clinton admin. Able danger exposed the roof leak. Clinton allowed his legal Pentagon team tell him "the leak's not that bad Mr. President".
A difference with a distinction. What you and forest, et al, are calling fear, I call watching and acting. It will only take that one time to not act and then will you be claiming how stupid Americans are for not acting on it?
